How can a manager let that happen

[RichMinSC]

How do you let a bullpen give up 9 runs in the 8th inning--even if it meant using all 7 of them to stop the bleeding

[spidernat]

[ToddGack]

How do you let a bullpen give up 9 runs in the 8th inning--even if it meant using all 7 of them to stop the bleeding

Martinez, Dusty, Williams? All the same.
You should follow the gameday thread where there are many more posters.

[mitlen]

Martinez, Dusty, Williams? All the same.
You should follow the gameday thread where there are many more posters.

...  and answers.   

[Slateman]

Who should have pitched instead of Madson? Someone please tell me.

Look, it's obvious that when relatively well rested, Kintzler, Madson, and Doolittle are one of the best back ends in baseball. Right now there is no one worthy of trust in middle relief, or who could give one of them the night off.

There's a thread right now that basically postulates that it wasn't early and people were hitting the panic button: http://www.wnff.net/index.php?topic=36264.0

Martinez managed it like a must win series. I'm not sure why anyone is faulting him for that, particularly given this board's reaction after the Colorado series.

[Ray D]

...  and answers.   

It would be great if one of you gamedayers could post a summary or highlights of the discussion each game.  I cannot do gameday, for reasons I have explained, and I'm sure many others here are in the same situation (and how about people who go to the game) and we'd all appreciate to hear about the discussion.  How about starting a thread?

[Natsinpwc]

Who should have pitched instead of Madson? Someone please tell me.

Look, it's obvious that when relatively well rested, Kintzler, Madson, and Doolittle are one of the best back ends in baseball. Right now there is no one worthy of trust in middle relief, or who could give one of them the night off.

There's a thread right now that basically postulates that it wasn't early and people were hitting the panic button: http://www.wnff.net/index.php?topic=36264.0

Martinez managed it like a must win series. I'm not sure why anyone is faulting him for that, particularly given this board's reaction after the Colorado series.

Stop making sense. It probably would have been Kelley and when he imploded half the Board would have been complaining about that. The board like many others falls into its the managers fault when bad things happen. When good things happen it's the players. For me even with Dusty's questionable moves last October it was still mostly on the players.

[Natsinpwc]

It would be great if one of you gamedayers could post a summary or highlights of the discussion each game.  I cannot do gameday, for reasons I have explained, and I'm sure many others here are in the same situation (and how about people who go to the game) and we'd all appreciate to hear about the discussion.  How about starting a thread?

Here's a quick summary of any gameday thread.

The Nats are terrible.
Zimmerman is terrible.
Martinez is a terrible manager.
We will never catch the Mets.
Even if we did catch them we would fail in October.

[Natsinpwc]

How do you let a bullpen give up 9 runs in the 8th inning--even if it meant using all 7 of them to stop the bleeding

So they should have brought Doolittle and Kintzler in also to burn them after falling behind? Makes no sense. That's worse than what Martonez did.

[bluestreak]

Here's a quick summary of any gameday thread.

The Nats are terrible.
Zimmerman is terrible.
Martinez is a terrible manager.
We will never catch the Mets.
Even if we did catch them we would fail in October.

 

When you put it that way, it makes me wonder why I even bother. You’re right. I can almost pre-write what I’m going to say for tonight’s thread.

It’s early
Why is everyone so negative?
Actually, the stats say something different...

[Natsinpwc]

I'm blaming Gio for only going 4.1 innings Tuesday.

On a more serious note Madson is a big boy with a contract. If he believes he is not ready he should tell the manager and pitching coach that. He is not a rookie trying to cement a spot on the team. It's almost as bad as Max wanting to take the ball out of the pen in game five last year (a move for which almost all WNFF posters were in agreement was brilliant before it happened).

[Natsinpwc]

When you put it that way, it makes me wonder why I even bother. You’re right. I can almost pre-write what I’m going to say for tonight’s thread.

It’s early
Why is everyone so negative?
Actually, the stats say something different...

I come for the side discussions.

[PowerBoater69]

So they should have brought Doolittle and Kintzler in also to burn them after falling behind? Makes no sense. That's worse than what Martonez did.

This is correct, Martinez did the right thing, best case scenario with a 4-2 lead was to give up nine runs.

[bluestreak]

Who should have pitched instead of Madson? Someone please tell me.

Look, it's obvious that when relatively well rested, Kintzler, Madson, and Doolittle are one of the best back ends in baseball. Right now there is no one worthy of trust in middle relief, or who could give one of them the night off.

There's a thread right now that basically postulates that it wasn't early and people were hitting the panic button: http://www.wnff.net/index.php?topic=36264.0

Martinez managed it like a must win series. I'm not sure why anyone is faulting him for that, particularly given this board's reaction after the Colorado series.

I generally agree with you, with a couple of differences. 1) I think given the number of pitches he had thrown in the past few days, it was obvious that Madson was gassed after two batters. At that point the situation is high-leverage enough that I bring in Doolittle, if he’s available. If Martinez was saving him for the ninth, I think that is the wrong move, although I’m sure there are traditionalists who’d disagree.
2) I think I would have probably even tried Kelley before letting Madson face 8 batters in his condition. But I don’t feel as strongly about that.

Silver lining Kintzler and Doolittle should be fresh for the start of the Dodgers series. Which is kinda must win for both teams (as much as an April series can be).

[RichMinSC]

This is correct, Martinez did the right thing, best case scenario with a 4-2 lead was to give up nine runs.

Martinez makes me long for Riggleman and Williams !  BUt if he was asked why did u keep madsen in I hope he didn't say it wa sthe 8th inning and he is my 8th ining guy

[RichMinSC]

I generally agree with you, with a couple of differences. 1) I think given the number of pitches he had thrown in the past few days, it was obvious that Madson was gassed after two batters. At that point the situation is high-leverage enough that I bring in Doolittle, if he’s available. If Martinez was saving him for the ninth, I think that is the wrong move, although I’m sure there are traditionalists who’d disagree.
2) I think I would have probably even tried Kelley before letting Madson face 8 batters in his condition. But I don’t feel as strongly about that.

Silver lining Kintzler and Doolittle should be fresh for the start of the Dodgers series. Which is kinda must win for both teams (as much as an April series can be).

if pitching to 2-3 batters to save a W burns out a multi million dollar bullpen   we got big problems

[PowerBoater69]

Martinez makes me long for Riggleman and Williams !  BUt if he was asked why did u keep madsen in I hope he didn't say it wa sthe 8th inning and he is my 8th ining guy

Didn't mention the inning, just kept repeating "he's our guy".

On the upside, Martinez show of support for Madson allows them to remain friends. I'd hate for the long plane ride to LA to be awkward.

[bluestreak]

if pitching to 2-3 batters to save a W burns out a multi million dollar bullpen   we got big problems

Madson has thrown 100 pitches in five days. That’s a lot for even the best relievers.

[Natsinpwc]

This is correct, Martinez did the right thing, best case scenario with a 4-2 lead was to give up nine runs.

So you really think they should have brought Doolittle and or Kintzler in to compound the mistake. Sometimes you just have to concede a game in MLB. You are not going to win them all. Once they fell behind by two runs the odds of the winning were probably like 5 percent.

[PowerBoater69]

So you really think they should have brought Doolittle and or Kintzler in to compound the mistake. Sometimes you just have to concede a game in MLB. You are not going to win them all. Once they fell behind by two runs the odds of the winning were probably like 5 percent.

They have an off day today and Scherzer tomorrow, so sure bring in anyone who can help win a game against the team we will be racing against in September.

[Natsinpwc]

Madson has thrown 100 pitches in five days. That’s a lot for even the best relievers.

True.

They really miss Matt Albers. He seemed to be able to pitch a lot without losing effectiveness. And could go multiple innings on occasion. They need to just DFA Cole and find someone else to sign for long relief.

[Natsinpwc]

They have an off day today and Scherzer tomorrow, so sure bring in anyone who can help win a game against the team we will be racing against in September.

Why do you think we will even be in the race in September with Martinez as manager? 

[varoadking]

Why do you think we will even be in the race in September with Martinez as manager?

I think he means the race to the bottom...

[RichMinSC]

Madson has thrown 100 pitches in five days. That’s a lot for even the best relievers.

then he shouldnt have been in there in the first place

[RichMinSC]

Didn't mention the inning, just kept repeating "he's our guy".

On the upside, Martinez show of support for Madson allows them to remain friends. I'd hate for the long plane ride to LA to be awkward.

I don't get to see the pressers for my own sanity and safety (SC is a concealed carry state)  tell me you are joking