Food and How You Cook/Eat It (2018)

[GburgNatsFan]

You should be more worried about your propensity for buying from a shady, back-room purveyor of fish flesh.

I recently bought a whole "rockfish" from an ethnic grocery store in Fairfax County. I put it in the oven at 400 degrees for 15-20 minutes and when I took it off the flesh on the outside of the fish was white and flaky and I enjoyed some of it. Then I noticed that the flesh around the backbone was pinkish and didn't flake off - it was undercooked.

How worried should I be about parasites etc?

[Natsinpwc]

Can someone check on the Count?

Count?

He sleeps with da fishes.

[Count Walewski]

I'm still okay. It turns out a girl who I went to college with ended up getting a PhD in parasite biology (!) and when I posted my story to Facebook she chimed in and said that most fish sold in the USA is flash frozen as soon as it is caught to kill parasites.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

I'm still okay. It turns out a girl who I went to college with ended up getting a PhD in parasite biology (!) and when I posted my story to Facebook she chimed in and said that most fish sold in the USA is flash frozen as soon as it is caught to kill parasites.

why is it when I hear "flash frozen," I don't think of fish?

[varoadking]

why is it when I hear "flash frozen," I don't think of fish?

Ted Williams?

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Ted Williams?

he flashed?

[varoadking]

Florida Salmon...

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/biz-monday/article205736704.html

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Florida Salmon...

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/biz-monday/article205736704.html

I'm skeptical about the waste disposal.  Injection wells have caused earthquakes, not just at fracking sites.  Waste management is a tremendous issue at salmon farms at farms in the ocean.  Even with massive tides, the stuff can really mess up water quality.  This operation is going to need a lot of water, and I wonder how much the aquifers can sustain.  Somehow, pumping a lot of stuff in and out of limestone doesn't sound stable to me, but I'm not the construction guy in this conversation however, this does seem to solve the problem of escapes, unless the salmon can rent a truck or something and drive up the coast to cool water. 

[varoadking]

I'm skeptical about the waste disposal.  Injection wells have caused earthquakes, not just at fracking sites.  Waste management is a tremendous issue at salmon farms at farms in the ocean.  Even with massive tides, the stuff can really mess up water quality.  This operation is going to need a lot of water, and I wonder how much the aquifers can sustain.  Somehow, pumping a lot of stuff in and out of limestone doesn't sound stable to me, but I'm not the construction guy in this conversation however, this does seem to solve the problem of escapes, unless the salmon can rent a truck or something and drive up the coast to cool water.

I don't know the volume of waste we'd be talking about, but I wonder if you couldn't take some portion of it elsewhere and use it as fertilizer?

[tomterp]

I don't know the volume of waste we'd be talking about, but I wonder if you couldn't take some portion of it elsewhere and use it as fertilizer?

Fish waste is excellent fertilizer for land based plants.  During warmer season I routinely siphon off water and waste from my large aquariums into gardens near the house.

Salmon farming in salt water would be challenging to capture waste as the salt renders the water toxic.  For fresh water one would think it much more feasible but to do it at commercial scale seems ambitious.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Fish waste is excellent fertilizer for land based plants.  During warmer season I routinely siphon off water and waste from my large aquariums into gardens near the house.

Salmon farming in salt water would be challenging to capture waste as the salt renders the water toxic.  For fresh water one would think it much more feasible but to do it at commercial scale seems ambitious.

Well, fish farming in ocean pens is sort of like industrial hog or chicken farming.  These things produce about as much waste as a small city.  I more or less refuse to eat anything other than wild salmon.  Sea lice is a huge problem.  So is feed.  Escapes are another big problem.  There was a major controversy about listing Atlantic Salmon 15-20 years ago.  One of the defenses offered by Governor King at the time was, in effect, the native salmon were essentially wiped out or hopelessly intermingled with escapees. Practices may have improved some since, and I know Teaism carries a farm raised atlantic salmon that they claim is green (and they are pretty good about vetting their food sources). 

I'd be curious about what sort of treatment they put the water through before injection.  In theory, I supposed you could do things like settle out the solids and chemically treat it before injection, but I don't know the volumes of water you'd have to do that to.  Usually, stuff injected isn't treated that much. 

[tomterp]

Well, fish farming in ocean pens is sort of like industrial hog or chicken farming.  These things produce about as much waste as a small city. 

Do 10,000 salmon in a pen produce more waste than 10,000 salmon in the wild?  Or is it just more concentrated and thus produces a much more tangible and severe impact able to be observed locally?

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Do 10,000 salmon in a pen produce more waste than 10,000 salmon in the wild?  Or is it just more concentrated and thus produces a much more tangible and severe impact able to be observed locally?

its the concentration, although it also probably is also true that they are raised more wastefully when farmed.  The concentration allows disease and lice to spread, so there are sometimes treatment (I believe) that add to the problem.  The feeding is probably more wasteful, too.  But, in the main, its the concentration of the waste, fish swimming in concentrated waste, etc... The waste in turn impacts the local water quality even with a lot of flushing by tides.

[imref]

its the concentration, although it also probably is also true that they are raised more wastefully when farmed.  The concentration allows disease and lice to spread, so there are sometimes treatment (I believe) that add to the problem.  The feeding is probably more wasteful, too.  But, in the main, its the concentration of the waste, fish swimming in concentrated waste, etc... The waste in turn impacts the local water quality even with a lot of flushing by tides.

something to think about - this is FL.  I'm guessing they won't be as strict in enforcing environmental law as other states.

[tomterp]

something to think about - this is FL.  I'm guessing they won't be as strict in enforcing environmental law as other states.

Well, they are the only east coast state not about to drill offshore, so there's that.   

[JCA-CrystalCity]

something to think about - this is FL.  I'm guessing they won't be as strict in enforcing environmental law as other states.

I don't think that's relevant here.  The farm they are talking about in Holmstead is a completely different design, closer to a trout farm.  Completely landlocked so you don't worry about escapes (unless the salmon can drive).  Rather than relying on ocean tides to flush the system, it sounds like they plan on pumping in saltwater and flushing it through a treatment system and then injecting it underground.  No discharges to water bodies.  Now Florida may or may not give a permit to treat before injection, and that has its own issues, but you will not get any discharges to the ocean or the swamps.

[GburgNatsFan]

Do 10,000 salmon in a pen produce more waste than 10,000 salmon in the wild?  Or is it just more concentrated and thus produces a much more tangible and severe impact able to be observed locally?

Trick question. There  aren't 10,000 salmon left in the wild. 

[varoadking]

Trick question. There  aren't 10,000 salmon left in the wild. 

My daughter and SiL caught their limit in Alaska last year...suckers were yuuuuuuuuge...

[GburgNatsFan]

My daughter and SiL caught their limit in Alaska last year...suckers were yuuuuuuuuge...

Were they on one of those reality shows? Dangerous Catch, or whatever it's called? 

[imref]

i had one of the simplest breakfasts ever the other day at a small cafe, and now i'm hooked - Avocado toast.   Mashed avocado with a bit of salt and pepper, spread on a good quality toasted bread (french loaf works well), drizzled with a bit of lemon or lime juice, balsamic vinegar, and crushed red pepper flakes.  If you want to get real fancy, put some garlic oil on the bread before topping it with avocado.

[UMDNats]

i had one of the simplest breakfasts ever the other day at a small cafe, and now i'm hooked - Avocado toast.   Mashed avocado with a bit of salt and pepper, spread on a good quality toasted bread (french loaf works well), drizzled with a bit of lemon or lime juice, balsamic vinegar, and crushed red pepper flakes.  If you want to get real fancy, put some garlic oil on the bread before topping it with avocado.

according to some, avocado toast is why millennials are poor.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/2017/05/15/08/39/melbourne-property-tycoon-hammers-millennials-over-spending-habits#EPAyXJWmkPWxuJth.99

[imref]

according to some, avocado toast is why millennials are poor.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/2017/05/15/08/39/melbourne-property-tycoon-hammers-millennials-over-spending-habits#EPAyXJWmkPWxuJth.99

that's funny.  Avocados are pretty expensive these days.

[HalfSmokes]

And here I thought that it had to do with inflation outpacing wage growth

[GburgNatsFan]

Trader Joe's makes this Everything Bagel topping in a spice bottle/jar. Great on top of avocados on top of toast. Or bagels.

i had one of the simplest breakfasts ever the other day at a small cafe, and now i'm hooked - Avocado toast.   Mashed avocado with a bit of salt and pepper, spread on a good quality toasted bread (french loaf works well), drizzled with a bit of lemon or lime juice, balsamic vinegar, and crushed red pepper flakes.  If you want to get real fancy, put some garlic oil on the bread before topping it with avocado.

[Natsinpwc]

that's funny.  Avocados are pretty expensive these days.

Avocado and sticky rice stuffed inside a piece of roasted seaweed is a great snack.