Author Topic: As the rotation turns - offseason edition 2017-18  (Read 2689 times)

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Online imref

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Offline GburgNatsFan

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So it's a circle jerk.
Probably just the opposite since Boras makes ridiculuous money off them.

Offline CoryTheFormerExposFan

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So it's a circle jerk.

I'm glad they have a good relationship with Boras.  Can you imagine trying to operate if he refused to negotiate with you?  Like it or not, he's a guy you have to play nice with. 

Online imref

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Offline Truconfidence

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Rizzo should take a flyer on Drew Smyly.  They can give him a cheap contract for 2018 with a option for 2019 if he pitches 80-100 innings.

Signed by the Cubs already for 3.7 mill

Offline bluestreak

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Looking back on it, should the Nats have claimed Justin Verlamder on waivers? It would be 2 years and 56
Million. Buster Olney tweeted about it, and now I wish the Nats had done it.

Offline Slateman

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Looking back on it, should the Nats have claimed Justin Verlamder on waivers? It would be 2 years and 56
Million. Buster Olney tweeted about it, and now I wish the Nats had done it.


Or maybe we could ask our 210 million dollar pitcher to stop losing in the playoffs?

Gio has more wins as a Nat than Max

Offline bluestreak

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Or maybe we could ask our 210 million dollar pitcher to stop losing in the playoffs?

Gio has more wins as a Nat than Max

You think Game 3 was on Scherzer?

Offline Mathguy

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That is a statistic with no meaning


[/quote]
Gio has more wins as a Nat than Max

Offline Ray D

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Looking back on it, should the Nats have claimed Justin Verlamder on waivers?

I don't think they had the opportunity.  I think he would have had to clear the entire American League first.  (Or did he clear waivers? I forget.)

Offline bluestreak

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I don't think they had the opportunity.  I think he would have had to clear the entire American League first.  (Or did he clear waivers? I forget.)

He cleared them and then ended up getting traded. It’s possible that the Tigers would have pulled him back had the Nats (or anyone) claimed him.

Offline CoryTheFormerExposFan

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Or maybe we could ask our 210 million dollar pitcher to stop losing in the playoffs?

Gio has more wins as a Nat than Max

What are you getting at with this Gio has more wins than Max line?  First, wins are the most useless way to evaluate pitchers there is statistically.  Second, Gio has been a Nat an extra 3 seasons than Max. 

Max started 1 game against the Cubs and left with 1 out in the 7th after giving up his 1st and only hit.  He was brilliant and our offense let him down.  I'm not going to judge a starting pitcher on how they pitch out of the bullpen on short rest. 

Offline GburgNatsFan

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All pitching statistics except wins are bullcrap. Did you forget who you were talking to? ;)

What are you getting at with this Gio has more wins than Max line?  First, wins are the most useless way to evaluate pitchers there is statistically.  Second, Gio has been a Nat an extra 3 seasons than Max. 

Max started 1 game against the Cubs and left with 1 out in the 7th after giving up his 1st and only hit.  He was brilliant and our offense let him down.  I'm not going to judge a starting pitcher on how they pitch out of the bullpen on short rest.

Offline CoryTheFormerExposFan

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Would Soto and Fedde be enough to get Archer from Tampa?  To get Archer at 29 years old on a cheap contract through 2022 would be worth a package including Soto.  I'd be willing to move anybody aside from Robles.  We'd have a ridiculous 5-man starting rotation (on paper) for 2018, and would then need to find only a 5th starter in 2019 when Gio walks versus having to fill in 2 spots (and who knows if Roark will be a a solid #3 at that time). 

Offline aspenbubba

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Would Soto and Fedde be enough to get Archer from Tampa?  To get Archer at 29 years old on a cheap contract through 2022 would be worth a package including Soto.  I'd be willing to move anybody aside from Robles.  We'd have a ridiculous 5-man starting rotation (on paper) for 2018, and would then need to find only a 5th starter in 2019 when Gio walks versus having to fill in 2 spots (and who knows if Roark will be a a solid #3 at that time). 

I would think in 2019 Ross would be the 5th starter

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Archer's contract is 6.25MM and 7.5MM for '18 and '19, with two options for '20 (9MM) and '21 (11MM).  So, basically he's due <$34MM for 4 years.  FIP based WAR loves him, borderline top 10 last year, but RA9 based bWAR though he was below average.  Like below Tanner Roark, who bWAR didn't like either.  It is a steal of a contract if you think the ERA is mostly bad luck (inflated BABIP and high home run rate).  6 years of control of 2 top 100 prospects is a lot to give up but, for 4 years, $34MM, that's means you are OK if he's only a 1 WAR pitcher.  TB has gotten one good power guy from us in Souza, and I think some pitchers have worked out OK like Karns.  That does not sound like an unreasonable package, unless the Nats think Soto is a lock as a starter.  I'd try Stevenson, Fedde, and someone not named Soto or Carter Kieboom, but it takes something to get something.

Sign JD Martinez then trade Taylor and Cole for him ;)

Offline CoryTheFormerExposFan

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I would think in 2019 Ross would be the 5th starter

That still leaves an open rotation spot alongside Max, Stras, and Roark.  Unless Cole and/or Fedde show something major this year, I'm not too excited about 40% of our rotation including Cole or Fedde and Ross.  I'm not completely sold on Roark maintaining enough to be a #3 either. 

Offline Slateman

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You think Game 3 was on Scherzer?
I think Scherzer has yet to pitch in a playoff game the Nationals have won.

Offline CoryTheFormerExposFan

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Archer's contract is 6.25MM and 7.5MM for '18 and '19, with two options for '20 (9MM) and '21 (11MM).  So, basically he's due <$34MM for 4 years.  FIP based WAR loves him, borderline top 10 last year, but RA9 based bWAR though he was below average.  Like below Tanner Roark, who bWAR didn't like either.  It is a steal of a contract if you think the ERA is mostly bad luck (inflated BABIP and high home run rate).  6 years of control of 2 top 100 prospects is a lot to give up but, for 4 years, $34MM, that's means you are OK if he's only a 1 WAR pitcher.  TB has gotten one good power guy from us in Souza, and I think some pitchers have worked out OK like Karns.  That does not sound like an unreasonable package, unless the Nats think Soto is a lock as a starter.  I'd try Stevenson, Fedde, and someone not named Soto or Carter Kieboom, but it takes something to get something.



Sign JD Martinez then trade Taylor and Cole for him ;)

I'm not sure Stevenson has any value to anybody...I guess you can throw him in, but Fedde is almost a throw in himself.  I just don't think he's considered that high of an upside guy.  I think Fedde would have to be the #2 prospect in the package, with somebody better than him. 

Offline CoryTheFormerExposFan

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I think Scherzer has yet to pitch in a playoff game the Nationals have won.

So in your eyes, he's better if he pitches 5 innings and gives up 4 runs but our offense explodes and we win versus a 1 hitter in Chicago in which we lose?  You are a funny guy.

Offline Slateman

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Archer's contract is 6.25MM and 7.5MM for '18 and '19, with two options for '20 (9MM) and '21 (11MM).  So, basically he's due <$34MM for 4 years.  FIP based WAR loves him, borderline top 10 last year, but RA9 based bWAR though he was below average.  Like below Tanner Roark, who bWAR didn't like either.  It is a steal of a contract if you think the ERA is mostly bad luck (inflated BABIP and high home run rate).  6 years of control of 2 top 100 prospects is a lot to give up but, for 4 years, $34MM, that's means you are OK if he's only a 1 WAR pitcher.  TB has gotten one good power guy from us in Souza, and I think some pitchers have worked out OK like Karns.  That does not sound like an unreasonable package, unless the Nats think Soto is a lock as a starter.  I'd try Stevenson, Fedde, and someone not named Soto or Carter Kieboom, but it takes something to get something.

Sign JD Martinez then trade Taylor and Cole for him ;)

I don't think that Archer is simply a bad luck pitcher. Gives up a lot of home runs. He's. Two pitch pitcher right now. And he hasn't shown a lot of development of his changeup in the last two years. Honestly, I feel like Ross' ceiling is Chris Archer.

Offline aspenbubba

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That still leaves an open rotation spot alongside Max, Stras, and Roark.  Unless Cole and/or Fedde show something major this year, I'm not too excited about 40% of our rotation including Cole or Fedde and Ross.  I'm not completely sold on Roark maintaining enough to be a #3 either. 
2019 would be Scherzer, Stras, Archer , Roark and Ross

Offline bluestreak

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So in your eyes, he's better if he pitches 5 innings and gives up 4 runs but our offense explodes and we win versus a 1 hitter in Chicago in which we lose?  You are a funny guy.

I am not sure why I engaged. Don't feed the troll anymore....

Offline Slateman

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2019 would be Scherzer, Stras, Archer , Roark and Ross

I think by then Fedde is in the rotation and either Roark is traded or Ross is converted to a reliever

Online imref

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looks like the fifth starter job is Cole's to lose.