Harper trade speculation (breakout from off-season thread)

[dcpatti]

I’d be offended if someone took my Christmas present and said they were returning it for cash. And I’m a person that thinks gift giving is inefficient.

I’d feel worse if I spent my hard earned money on something that the recipient didn’t like and it sat in a closet gathering dust for a few years till it went to goodwill.  If I’m going to take money away from myself and use it to buy you a gift, I want you to actually like it. Otherwise it’s a waste.

[Baseball is Life]

Having worked in the government my entire career I don't know much about freebies from my employer. I did have a boss who took us to lunch on his own dime a couple of years. Sharing his executive bonus. That's a real gift.

That's along the same lines. If my boss takes me to lunch I would always let him pick the place. Again, I'm just grateful that he's or she's buying. I wouldn't complain about where where we were going and suggest we go somewhere else.

[Baseball is Life]

I’d feel worse if I spent my hard earned money on something that the recipient didn’t like and it sat in a closet gathering dust for a few years till it went to goodwill.  If I’m going to take money away from myself and use it to buy you a gift, I want you to actually like it. Otherwise it’s a waste.

Exchange for another gift or size, yes. Exchange for cash? Not sure about that. I guess it really amounts to the same thing but something about it makes me uneasy.

[Slateman]

Wasn't complaining. Just have no experience with holiday presents from my employer.

Ah. Ironically, neither do from my contractor days. Well, ICF had a pretty cool, formal party for Xmas. Usually rented out a museum in DC.

I had an OIC in the Marines throw a pretty nagging kegger at his house. Then for some reason we all decided to hike up KT, barefooted.

[bluestreak]

Your freebies are the amazing amount of leave and sick time you get. And not having to use it to cover unbillable time or government shut downs.

Nice to see you’re in the Christmas spirit...

[HalfSmokes]

I don't think of gifts as purely financial transactions but judging from this board I seem to be in the minority on that.

I don't view gifts from friends and family that way, but gifts from employers, I totally view that way

[Baseball is Life]

I don't view gifts from friends and family that way, but gifts from employers, I totally view that way

For me, it depends on the employer and the nature of the gift. For example, when my boss takes me out to lunch, I certainly don't look at that as a financial transaction.

[NJ Ave]

For example, when my boss takes me out to lunch, I certainly don't look at that as a financial transaction.

He/she probably views it as more of an emotional transaction. 

[Baseball is Life]

He/she probably views is as more of an emotional transaction. 

 

[Slateman]

Nice to see you’re in the Christmas spirit...

[LoveAngelos]

LSD temple??????????????

I thought Timothy Leary was dead

[Natsinpwc]

LSD temple??????????????

I thought Timothy Leary was dead

[dracnal]

I don't view gifts from friends and family that way, but gifts from employers, I totally view that way

One piece of advice I got that stuck with me was, 'You don't get to have a say in what someone does with a gift you give them.'  It was a polite way of telling me that I needed to let go of the fact that my gift wasn't as valuable to the person I gave it to as it was to me, and if I was concerned about how it ended up being used, I shouldn't have given it away. The corollary being if you want to see that a gift is used in a specific way, it's not a gift, it's an obligation.

[Baseball is Life]

One piece of advice I got that stuck with me was, 'You don't get to have a say in what someone does with a gift you give them.'  It was a polite way of telling me that I needed to let go of the fact that my gift wasn't as valuable to the person I gave it to as it was to me, and if I was concerned about how it ended up being used, I shouldn't have given it away. The corollary being if you want to see that a gift is used in a specific way, it's not a gift, it's an obligation.

So I have a nephew who is was always hounding me for Nats tickets. He ends up using about half the tickets I give him. The gift is obviously not as valuable to him as it is to me--or the people who now get the tickets instead of him. So, yeah, if I give you tickets as a gift (that you requested), I think of that as obligation on your part to use them. Two things that bother me to no end are waste and ingratitude.

[bluestreak]

I think if you ask someone for a gift it’s gauche to then immediately resell it. I also think it’s inbounds for someone to say, like at an office, “this is for people to use, not sell. If you don’t like baseball, please allow someone who does to use it”

I guess I see it as different when someone requests a gift, either by asking or signing up for tickets. For an unsolicited gift, I say you’re free to do what you want.

PS. I apologize for the part I played in getting us here from “Bryce Harper trade discussion”

[mitlen]

So I have a nephew who is was always hounding me for Nats tickets. He ends up using about half the tickets I give him. The gift is obviously not as valuable to him as it is to me--or the people who now get the tickets instead of him. So, yeah, if I give you tickets as a gift (that you requested), I think of that as obligation on your part to use them. Two things that bother me to no end are waste and ingratitude.

Nix his tix.

[Mathguy]

All that means Bluestreak is you are no better than the rest of us.

PS. I apologize for the part I played in getting us here from “Bryce Harper trade discussion”

[HalfSmokes]

I think if you ask someone for a gift it’s gauche to then immediately resell it. I also think it’s inbounds for someone to say, like at an office, “this is for people to use, not sell. If you don’t like baseball, please allow someone who does to use it”

I guess I see it as different when someone requests a gift, either by asking or signing up for tickets. For an unsolicited gift, I say you’re free to do what you want.

For family, I agree with you. At work, if they're offering high face value tickets, but nothing for non-baseball fans, I think it's fair game to take them and sell them. I think gratitude and loyalty to employers went away about the same time as pensions and lifetime employement; to me work is ultimately transactional. I may like my boss and they like me, but I don't expect loyalty.

[dracnal]

I think if you ask someone for a gift it’s gauche to then immediately resell it.

This is a bit of a different thing. Though I find the idea of 'asking someone for a gift' is a little weird in the first place. I don't want to get too nit-picky about gift vs. thing someone asked for vs. obligated to do something for someone, but that does add some nuance. For gift, my definition tends to be 'a thing I gave freely to you with no obligation to do so.'  Which is also where HS's 'if it is family' starts to get a bit mixed in, because XMas presents to immediate relatives are often sort of an expected quid pro quo rather than a freely gifted thing.

[Baseball is Life]

Nix his tix.

Yep, I've cut down his tix and I explain to him clearly that he must use them or give them back. There are some common sense rules that some people just don't get.

[dracnal]

More back on topic, I think there is zero chance Harper gets traded. The return isn't worth the PR hit. If he's going to leave, you want to be able to point the finger 100% at him. Compare Pujols leaving the Cards to Stanton leaving the Marlins.  The fans weren't pissed at the Cards, while the Marlins sound like they're shedding loyalty as well as salary.

[Baseball is Life]

For family, I agree with you. At work, if they're offering high face value tickets, but nothing for non-baseball fans, I think it's fair game to take them and sell them. I think gratitude and loyalty to employers went away about the same time as pensions and lifetime employement; to me work is ultimately transactional. I may like my boss and they like me, but I don't expect loyalty.

I agree with you regarding loyalty to employer but I differ on gratitude. If my employer is offering something extra that is not part of my negotiated deal, then I'm grateful for it and act accordingly.

[Ray D]

More back on topic, I think there is zero chance Harper gets traded. The return isn't worth the PR hit. If he's going to leave, you want to be able to point the finger 100% at him. Compare Pujols leaving the Cards to Stanton leaving the Marlins.  The fans weren't pissed at the Cards, while the Marlins sound like they're shedding loyalty as well as salary.

Huh?  I thought this thread was about gift etiquette.

[Baseball is Life]

Huh?  I thought this thread was about gift etiquette.

There is more to say about gift etiquette this time of year than Harper. Get on board.

But, really, how much more can we we about Harper trade speculation that hasn't already been said?

[Slateman]

More back on topic, I think there is zero chance Harper gets traded. The return isn't worth the PR hit. If he's going to leave, you want to be able to point the finger 100% at him. Compare Pujols leaving the Cards to Stanton leaving the Marlins.  The fans weren't pissed at the Cards, while the Marlins sound like they're shedding loyalty as well as salary.

I think there's only a couple (delusional) people who don't realize this.

We're all in for 2018. No one may say it, but this is the final year of the window. After that, the division will be more difficult and the team will lose a substantial amount of talent that it likely won't be able to replace. Scherzer and Zimmerman will be older and we will likely see some regression. I just don't see how you can replace Murphy and Harper's bats and expect to truly compete. I mean, how many teams have lost two middle of the order bats, both of whom have finished in the top 3 of MVP voting at least once in the last three seasons?

The likelihood of the Nationals being as good as they are now at some point in the next 10-20 years is extremely low.