Author Topic: Fire Dave Martinez - Lilliquist Week  (Read 95300 times)

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Offline LoveAngelos

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez
« Reply #4100: April 10, 2019, 10:36:43 AM »
Martinez may have lucked into a winning formula, it isn't little things or being good guys who try hard, it's hatred of the Phillies. The fans have always disliked the Phillies but after that bat flip and watching them get off to a hot start I think that kicked off the response we saw last night. Great game, we need more like that.




Thing is, Philly fans revel in being disliked. It is their badge of honor. So, give em all the dislike and send all the bad juju that can be mustered their way.
BTW I like Starsburg's post game response about his relationship with Harper. He basically said there was no relationship. My bet, most the players would say the same thing

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez
« Reply #4101: April 10, 2019, 10:41:19 AM »



Thing is, Philly fans revel in being disliked. It is their badge of honor. So, give em all the dislike and send all the bad juju that can be mustered their way.
BTW I like Starsburg's post game response about his relationship with Harper. He basically said there was no relationship. My bet, most the players would say the same thing
I think that’s more on Strasburg. The only relationship he seems to have had was with Max who yelled at him last year.

Offline Kevrock

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez
« Reply #4102: April 10, 2019, 10:50:23 AM »
That was a weird answer. Paraphrasing "It's not like he was a pitcher. He stayed with the outfielders and I mostly stayed with the pitchers."

Lol

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez
« Reply #4103: April 10, 2019, 10:54:30 AM »
That was a weird answer. Paraphrasing "It's not like he was a pitcher. He stayed with the outfielders and I mostly stayed with the pitchers."

Lol
He’s a weird dude. Many pitchers are. Steve Carlton basically declined to participate in the team celebration after the Phillies won in 1980. Sat in a back room with his own bottle of wine.


Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez
« Reply #4104: April 10, 2019, 11:05:14 AM »
Gonna stick my neck out and say that if the bullpen settles down, Davy is going to be regarded as having done a good job this year. I'm not saying he's good, I'm just saying I think his reputation is going to ride with the bullpen. His starters and line up are ok.  With a bullpen, there's an 8-10 game improvement.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez
« Reply #4105: April 10, 2019, 12:23:40 PM »
Davey was fine yesterday.  I liked the move he made with Doolittle. 

Fantastic article today from @thisyeardc posted on Twitter, must read, extremely well laid out reasoning on why Martinez badly botched the pen management last night. Martinez had lefties Sipp and Doolittle warming at the same time with Harper coming up. What was the plan for Sipp there?

https://t.co/uUkvFv74PX

Quote
If Martinez had gone with Doolittle to start the ninth and the game played out the same otherwise Sipp and Barraclough never even warm up. Putting extra mileage on Barraclough and Sipp’s arms last night has now set them up to be gassed during a game they’ll be required for today, putting the team in a worse spot and increasing their chances of injury due to fatigue

Offline Slateman

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez
« Reply #4106: April 10, 2019, 12:28:35 PM »
Fantastic article today from @thisyeardc posted on Twitter, must read, extremely well laid out reasoning on why Martinez badly botched the pen management last night. Martinez had lefties Sipp and Doolittle warming at the same time with Harper coming up. What was the plan for Sipp there?

https://t.co/uUkvFv74PX
 
Except we have no idea to the extent Sipp was warming up. Which is an enormously important piece of information that is necessary for an analysis of Martinez's decision last night.

However, the plan might have been: Use Sipp as a LOOGY against Harper, then use Doolittle against the upcoming righties. Which would make a lot of sense because Sipp is a LOOGY. However, McCutcheon getting on messed that up and you needed your best reliever against the best 3-4-5 lineup in baseball.

TL; DR - Writer knows nothing about baseball and shows it.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez
« Reply #4107: April 10, 2019, 12:32:23 PM »
Except we have no idea to the extent Sipp was warming up. Which is an enormously important piece of information that is necessary for an analysis of Martinez's decision last night.

However, the plan might have been: Use Sipp as a LOOGY against Harper, then use Doolittle against the upcoming righties. Which would make a lot of sense because Sipp is a LOOGY. However, McCutcheon getting on messed that up and you needed your best reliever against the best 3-4-5 lineup in baseball.

TL; DR - Writer knows nothing about baseball and shows it.


What? If the plan was to use Sipp against Harper then why didn't Sipp pitch against Harper? Beyond that who in their right mind would pitch Sipp against Harper when Doolittle is available?

No spinning this by the Martinez apologists.

Offline aBaltoNat

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez
« Reply #4108: April 10, 2019, 12:36:26 PM »

Offline aBaltoNat

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez
« Reply #4109: April 10, 2019, 12:41:16 PM »

Offline CoryTheFormerExposFan

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez
« Reply #4110: April 10, 2019, 12:47:31 PM »
We've "stolen" as many now as we've given up due to the bullpen, and after 10 games against tough NL East foes...I'm okay with being 5-5 considering the historic mess the pen has been so far.  If we can play .500 or slightly better against the Phils, Braves, and Mets and beat up on the Marlins, I think we have a good shot at the postseason. 

One thing is for sure...Soto and Robles are going to be a lot of fun to watch for years to come.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez
« Reply #4111: April 10, 2019, 12:49:20 PM »

What? If the plan was to use Sipp against Harper then why didn't Sipp pitch against Harper? Beyond that who in their right mind would pitch Sipp against Harper when Doolittle is available?

No spinning this by the Martinez apologists.
Situation changed. Plan was for Barrclough to get McCutcheon and Segura out (righties,) and use Sipp against Harper (which is the reason we got Sipp, BTW) to get out of the inning. That would leave Doolittle for the next inning, against Hoskins, Realmuto, and Herrera. McCutcheon got on which meant that someone was going to have to face Hoskins that inning. Suero wasn't going to be ready in time, and he'd already pitched on back to back days so his availability and effectiveness are questionable at that point.

There was no way you let Harper hit against a RHP, so that meant walking him and hoping Barrclough could get outs out of Hoskins (who is hotter than fire right now) and Realmuto (who had a three hit night). Or bringing in Doolittle right then. Or bringing in Sipp to face Harper and then going to Doolittle after that AB.

There's a difference between having a plan and having to adapt a plan to the current situation. Martinez had a plan. It had to change. He adapted it. In the process, Sipp started his warm up procedures and didnt't get used. It happens all over baseball and is done by every manager at every level. In effect, Martinez saved Sipp pitches in a real game.

This is the difference between actually having been around this game and simply having watched it on TV.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez
« Reply #4112: April 10, 2019, 12:52:31 PM »
Fantastic article today from @thisyeardc posted on Twitter, must read, extremely well laid out reasoning on why Martinez badly botched the pen management last night. Martinez had lefties Sipp and Doolittle warming at the same time with Harper coming up. What was the plan for Sipp there?

https://t.co/uUkvFv74PX
 

Is a random Google Doc really an "article" now? :lmao:

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez
« Reply #4113: April 10, 2019, 12:53:30 PM »
Situation changed. Plan was for Barrclough to get McCutcheon and Segura out (righties,) and use Sipp against Harper (which is the reason we got Sipp, BTW) to get out of the inning. That would leave Doolittle for the next inning, against Hoskins, Realmuto, and Herrera. McCutcheon got on which meant that someone was going to have to face Hoskins that inning. Suero wasn't going to be ready in time, and he'd already pitched on back to back days so his availability and effectiveness are questionable at that point.

There was no way you let Harper hit against a RHP, so that meant walking him and hoping Barrclough could get outs out of Hoskins (who is hotter than fire right now) and Realmuto (who had a three hit night). Or bringing in Doolittle right then. Or bringing in Sipp to face Harper and then going to Doolittle after that AB.

There's a difference between having a plan and having to adapt a plan to the current situation. Martinez had a plan. It had to change. He adapted it. In the process, Sipp started his warm up procedures and didnt't get used. It happens all over baseball and is done by every manager at every level. In effect, Martinez saved Sipp pitches in a real game.

This is the difference between actually having been around this game and simply having watched it on TV.

:clap: Sanity.

Offline imref

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez
« Reply #4114: April 10, 2019, 01:07:56 PM »
:clap: Sanity.

Slateman is on a roll, of course he forgot to add "but it didn't matter because the team should be blown up" at the end. :)

Offline Slateman

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez
« Reply #4115: April 10, 2019, 01:17:53 PM »
Is a random Google Doc really an "article" now? :lmao:
I mean, it's the internet. So I run a blog, do I count as the press? Maybe

The problem is that that article has the benefit of hindsight and fails to acknowledge that Suero was really only available under emergency circumstances, with Rosenthanal effectively conceding a loss in game you came back to tie. The demoralizing effect of that would probably have killed any hope for this season.

The plan was to do, effectively, what the article says, but in reverse. Have Barrclough and Sipp pitch the 9th inning, and use Doolittle for the 10th. IT's very simple why: Barrclough and Sipp are effectively one inning use only. Not individually (unless you simply don't care about runs scoring anymore), but combined. Particularly against one of the best lineups in baseball. So you're only getting one inning out of those two, regardless of when it is. You're then stuck with Miller and Suero, both are probably gassed from the last few games, and Rosenthal, which is conceding a defeat.

When McCutcheon gets on, that changes. One way or another, Doolittle is now going to pitch. I mean, there's an outside chance that Sipp comes in and gets Harper to GIDP, but let's be real here, that's a long shot. You could walk Harper and let Barrclough pitch to Hoskins and and Realmuto with one out and speed on first and second. Do we believe that Barrclough could get those two outs? I dunno. But if you lose that game right there because you didn't want to bring in Doolittle, you'll never hear the end of it and the clubhouse will basically hold it against you.

So now we've established that once McCutcheon gets on base, Doolittle has to pitch, there's no reason to use Sipp. Yeah, hewas probably warmed up. Again, there was a plan. The plan changed. You bring in Doolittle in the most clutch situation of the game. Sipp should still be available as a LOOGY tomorrow. Maybe.

Did Martinez get lucky? Yes. He was probably up a creek if Soto doesn't hit a home run in the 10th. But he was already up that creek already so what difference did it make? If you manage that game with next game in mind, you lose both of them.

Offline aBaltoNat

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez
« Reply #4116: April 10, 2019, 01:27:32 PM »
Why don't you post like this more often?

Great insights.

Offline mitlen

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez
« Reply #4117: April 10, 2019, 01:33:36 PM »
Why don't you post like this more often?

Great insights.

He saves his good stuff for the other site.     :couch:      BTW    Did yunz get any snow?

Offline aBaltoNat

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez
« Reply #4118: April 10, 2019, 01:53:30 PM »
He saves his good stuff for the other site.     :couch:      BTW    Did yunz get any snow?

We left Denver. Live near White Plains, NY now (but we are in CT).

Offline mitlen

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez
« Reply #4119: April 10, 2019, 01:54:17 PM »
We left Denver. Live near White Plains, NY now (but we are in CT).

Damnit, that's right.    I remember your mentioning that.     

Offline bluestreak

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez
« Reply #4120: April 10, 2019, 02:16:14 PM »
He saves his good stuff for the other site.     :couch:      BTW    Did yunz get any snow?

What’s this other site?

Offline Slateman

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez
« Reply #4121: April 10, 2019, 03:13:00 PM »
What’s this other site?

Yea, what's my other site?

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez
« Reply #4122: April 10, 2019, 03:46:05 PM »
Yea, what's my other site?
The Onion.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez
« Reply #4123: April 10, 2019, 03:48:19 PM »
Situation changed. Plan was for Barrclough to get McCutcheon and Segura out (righties,) and use Sipp against Harper (which is the reason we got Sipp, BTW) to get out of the inning. That would leave Doolittle for the next inning, against Hoskins, Realmuto, and Herrera. McCutcheon got on which meant that someone was going to have to face Hoskins that inning. Suero wasn't going to be ready in time, and he'd already pitched on back to back days so his availability and effectiveness are questionable at that point.

There was no way you let Harper hit against a RHP, so that meant walking him and hoping Barrclough could get outs out of Hoskins (who is hotter than fire right now) and Realmuto (who had a three hit night). Or bringing in Doolittle right then. Or bringing in Sipp to face Harper and then going to Doolittle after that AB.

There's a difference between having a plan and having to adapt a plan to the current situation. Martinez had a plan. It had to change. He adapted it. In the process, Sipp started his warm up procedures and didnt't get used. It happens all over baseball and is done by every manager at every level. In effect, Martinez saved Sipp pitches in a real game.

This is the difference between actually having been around this game and simply having watched it on TV.

Under no circumstances did it make sense to warm Sipp with Doolittle, there was no alternative where Sipp pitches. Maybe use Barrclough for the first two hitters, but routinely using multiple relievers per inning is why Martinez is grinding through his pen so fast.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez
« Reply #4124: April 10, 2019, 03:57:26 PM »
Under no circumstances did it make sense to warm Sipp with Doolittle, there was no alternative where Sipp pitches. Maybe use Barrclough for the first two hitters, but routinely using multiple relievers per inning is why Martinez is grinding through his pen so fast.
Most teams are struggling with their bullpens. Just look at the Phillies last night and in previous games.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/pitching/split/128