Author Topic: CHOKERS, LOSERS, FAILURES  (Read 3536 times)

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Offline ChicagoCubs

  • Posts: 25
Re: CHOKERS, LOSERS, FAILURES
« Reply #75: October 14, 2017, 10:32:25 AM »
Let's be honest here. If you take away all the lucky runs the Cubs got... the Nats win by at least 3 runs.
The Cubs got lucky last night and they know. Their fans know it. Baez strikes out clean there and they lose the game. Weiters hold onto the passed ball instead of chucking it into RF.. and they lose. Lobaton stays on the base or that stupid replay never gets challenged and they very likely may have rallied there.

Hats off to the Cubs, they won a wild series. there was luck playing into it for both teams (Russell's booted grounder in Gm 4).

The Nats tried hard to fight it, But it was just an extremely unlucky night...

Baez has been doing that all season.  One game back in August he struck out twice and was 0-5 yet somehow managed to get the winning run in the 10th inning.  He struck out in the 10th which would have ended the game in Toronto's favor but beat out the passed ball throw to keep the rally alive.
The guy had a 0.000 batting average in the NLDS and yet somehow managed to make an impact on both the offensive and of course the defensive end.  It's about wanting it and not giving up, something that Jason Wyerth lacks.  How does Wyerth lose the ball in the lights in a pivotal game 5.  That's Bill Buckneresque.  That's the difference in the game right there.  That's not luck, it's the difference between wanting it and not wanting it (Wyerth).

"A stage, Cubs manager Joe Maddon said, that should be shared with Baez, who was 0-for-5 with two strikeouts. His 10th-inning K, with Zobrist looming on third, left Lopez frozen as Baez hustled toward first.

"Javy runs hard, OK?" Maddon said. "For those who want to criticize this guy, that's a ball in the dirt 15 feet away from the catcher. The catcher just blanked out on it. If Javy doesn't run hard right there, it's a different result."

"Everybody's going to look at Alex's hit, great. It was a big moment. But Javy striking out and not just sulking. … "

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-cubs-blue-jays-spt-0821-20170820-story.html

Offline ChicagoCubs

  • Posts: 25
Re: CHOKERS, LOSERS, FAILURES
« Reply #76: October 14, 2017, 11:00:22 AM »
As razor thin as these game were, I think if Wyrth was benched the whole series, the way Strassburg was pitching you guys easily win.  There was nothing you could do about Weiters at this stage in the season but there were good options for Wyreth.  Lind, Howie, etc.

I think part of that falls on Dusty for sticking with a guy who isn't doing anything, isn't hustling and doesn't care.  It's about setting the tone and the culture and attitude of the organization.  Lind wanted it.  Howie wanted it.  You shouldn't automatically get a spot because that breeds complacency.

Offline twillia1

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Re: CHOKERS, LOSERS, FAILURES
« Reply #77: October 14, 2017, 11:48:48 AM »

Read Boswell today - PLEASE. What a terrific column. It was among the most insightful and elegant pieces that the franchise, to include fans, needs to digest. The ownership needs to set this unforgiving tone to others and not accept the endless alibis for losing; I heard them all week. Nice guy manager, bad umpires, baserunning mistakes, etc. The most important point that Tom makes is that those who leave a loss like that behind them, even in the post-game locker room, need to be identified and culled from the pack. Passionate ownership, smart general and roster management, unforgiving followers, and players with a total commitment to excellence and each other are needed to advance. A will to win from top to bottom

Offline ChicagoCubs

  • Posts: 25
Re: CHOKERS, LOSERS, FAILURES
« Reply #78: October 14, 2017, 01:06:52 PM »
Read Boswell today - PLEASE. What a terrific column. It was among the most insightful and elegant pieces that the franchise, to include fans, needs to digest. The ownership needs to set this unforgiving tone to others and not accept the endless alibis for losing; I heard them all week. Nice guy manager, bad umpires, baserunning mistakes, etc. The most important point that Tom makes is that those who leave a loss like that behind them, even in the post-game locker room, need to be identified and culled from the pack. Passionate ownership, smart general and roster management, unforgiving followers, and players with a total commitment to excellence and each other are needed to advance. A will to win from top to bottom

The late great Ken Beatrice once said that success or failure of an organization starts at the top.
Great people at the top (jack Kent Cooke, Edgar Bennett Williams) and great people all the way through.
Clueless people at the top (Dan Snyder), clueless people all the way though.

I think the Nats organization has done a good job of building e team and fan base from scratch.
However it's time to take it to the next level.

Next year is critical.  Because if it's more of the same with another Dusty finish then Harper will leave for sure.  You have to keep Harper.  He's a once in a generation talent.
Only way to do that is get to the NLCS at the very least if not the World Series.

You need to get someone who has won the World Series as a manager.
And understands what it takes and what culture and attitude is needed to be champions.
That's why I advocate Jim Leyland or anyone else who is a champion.

There's no time to gamble on a young guy who may or may not be champion material manager because
You have to do someing next year for Harper to stay around.  There is no time to wait around.

Offline Ray D

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Re: CHOKERS, LOSERS, FAILURES
« Reply #79: October 14, 2017, 01:23:04 PM »
Read Boswell today -

Today, as in Saturday.  It wasn't in my Post's sports section.

Online mitlen

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Re: CHOKERS, LOSERS, FAILURES
« Reply #80: October 14, 2017, 01:45:44 PM »
Read Boswell today - PLEASE. What a terrific column. It was among the most insightful and elegant pieces that the franchise, to include fans, needs to digest. The ownership needs to set this unforgiving tone to others and not accept the endless alibis for losing; I heard them all week. Nice guy manager, bad umpires, baserunning mistakes, etc. The most important point that Tom makes is that those who leave a loss like that behind them, even in the post-game locker room, need to be identified and culled from the pack. Passionate ownership, smart general and roster management, unforgiving followers, and players with a total commitment to excellence and each other are needed to advance. A will to win from top to bottom
Today, as in Saturday.  It wasn't in my Post's sports section.

Posted:

http://www.wnff.net/index.php?topic=35853.50;msg=1903775

Offline bluestreak

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Re: CHOKERS, LOSERS, FAILURES
« Reply #81: October 14, 2017, 02:27:41 PM »
Read Boswell today - PLEASE. What a terrific column. It was among the most insightful and elegant pieces that the franchise, to include fans, needs to digest. The ownership needs to set this unforgiving tone to others and not accept the endless alibis for losing; I heard them all week. Nice guy manager, bad umpires, baserunning mistakes, etc. The most important point that Tom makes is that those who leave a loss like that behind them, even in the post-game locker room, need to be identified and culled from the pack. Passionate ownership, smart general and roster management, unforgiving followers, and players with a total commitment to excellence and each other are needed to advance. A will to win from top to bottom

“Will to win”, “competitive drive” etc. are the hottest of all hot takes. These are empty platitudes that are almost always employed after the fact. It’s an attempt by everyone’s brain to explain a crappy outcome that maybe has no explanation.

Offline Natsinpwc

  • Posts: 11511
Re: CHOKERS, LOSERS, FAILURES
« Reply #82: October 14, 2017, 02:35:25 PM »
“Will to win”, “competitive drive” etc. are the hottest of all hot takes. These are empty platitudes that are almost always employed after the fact. It’s an attempt by everyone’s brain to explain a crappy outcome that maybe has no explanation.
Yep. They lost because they didn't hit the first four games and because they had a number three pitcher who crapped the bed. And a manager with several head shaking moves. Baseball is all about discipline and focus.

Online mitlen

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  • We had 'em all the way.
Re: CHOKERS, LOSERS, FAILURES
« Reply #83: October 14, 2017, 02:54:12 PM »
Yep. They lost because they didn't hit the first four games and because they had a number three pitcher who crapped the bed. And a manager with several head shaking moves. Baseball is all about discipline and focus.

What is the difference between the platitudes "competitive drive" and "discipline and focus"?     

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: CHOKERS, LOSERS, FAILURES
« Reply #84: October 14, 2017, 03:22:10 PM »
The late great Ken Beatrice once said that success or failure of an organization starts at the top.
Great people at the top (jack Kent Cooke, Edgar Bennett Williams) and great people all the way through.
Clueless people at the top (Dan Snyder), clueless people all the way though.

I think the Nats organization has done a good job of building e team and fan base from scratch.
However it's time to take it to the next level.

Next year is critical.  Because if it's more of the same with another Dusty finish then Harper will leave for sure.  You have to keep Harper.  He's a once in a generation talent.
Only way to do that is get to the NLCS at the very least if not the World Series.

You need to get someone who has won the World Series as a manager.
And understands what it takes and what culture and attitude is needed to be champions.
That's why I advocate Jim Leyland or anyone else who is a champion.

There's no time to gamble on a young guy who may or may not be champion material manager because
You have to do someing next year for Harper to stay around.  There is no time to wait around.


Edward Bennett Williams, and are you trying to troll Old Chelsea?  He cockblocked DC baseball.

Offline Ray D

  • Posts: 9703
Re: CHOKERS, LOSERS, FAILURES
« Reply #85: October 14, 2017, 03:25:24 PM »
Posted:

http://www.wnff.net/index.php?topic=35853.50;msg=1903775
Thanks, but that doesn't work for me. The Post blocks me. Keeps telling me to disable my ad blocker. 

Offline Natsinpwc

  • Posts: 11511
Re: CHOKERS, LOSERS, FAILURES
« Reply #86: October 14, 2017, 03:53:49 PM »
What is the difference between the platitudes "competitive drive" and "discipline and focus"?     
All these guys have competitive drive. To me it's the ones that can calm themselves at critical times. Especially in a sport like baseball. You're not trying to tackle or outrun a guy. Does anyone really think Gio wanted to fail? No. He just lets his emotions gets the best of him.

Offline SkinsNatFan21RIP

  • Posts: 464
Re: CHOKERS, LOSERS, FAILURES
« Reply #87: October 14, 2017, 06:48:45 PM »
If Werth and Weiters weren't playing then the Nats win this series. It's really that simple. Their play was so bad that it tilted the whole series.

Offline Nats Diamond

  • Posts: 19
Re: CHOKERS, LOSERS, FAILURES
« Reply #88: October 14, 2017, 06:49:04 PM »
I didn’t want to laugh at that.

Same here.  For the record he was trapped in that day for over 8 years, 8 months, and 16 days.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/happy-groundhog-day-heres-5-769137

Offline Coladar

  • Posts: 2826
Re: CHOKERS, LOSERS, FAILURES
« Reply #89: October 14, 2017, 06:54:36 PM »
ok, I read it, didn't find a word of it believable, but glad you posted!

Hmm... Not a word?!? Wow, I guess the IBB, Dropped K, CI, HBP was all in my head, too!

But... You don't have this happen year after year after year, and it's not *somehow* an endemic organizational problem, as opposed to merely a bad player/choice or two each time.

Since 2012, they've known truly great seasonal success - dominating the NL, even. Then, come the NLDS, they face wild polarity shifts throughout, and yet ultimately end up with a winner-takes-all Game 5. Then, in that Game 5, not only aren't they not blown out of the water in it, but they appear poised to take it all... And then, it all comes down to one gut wrenching inning of nightmarish devastation.

Three of four NLDS' in six seasons fit that to a tee; the fourth NLDS...? 2014...? Even worse! Game 2? An 18 (EIGHTEEN) Inning heartbreaker. Game 4, the killer, was lost 3-2, with another damning single inning, the second, for a 3-2 loss.

So in summary:

2012? Game 5, Inning 9. [4 runs in a 9-7 loss]
2014? Game 2, 18 Innings [2-1 loss] + Game 4, Inning 2 [2 runs in a 3-2 loss]
2016? Game 5, Inning 7 [4 runs in a 4-3 loss]
2017? Game 5, Inning 5 [4 runs, 9-8 loss]

Matter of fact, it isn't even just one inning in one game 5... It's one FOUR run inning in game 5. Three times we've had a blown four runs exactly in just one inning, each time coming past the halfway point of the game, in a one run loss (2012 might've well of been one, coming in the ninth as it did.)

My point, then, is that these cannot be mere flukes nor are they easily fixable by something so simple as some roster or coaching off-season changes. Rather, it owes itself more to some magical locker room dynamic; something wholly organizational, wherein the problem is an absence of fortitude of heart/spirit. Usually, in any game, sure enough mistakes get made... but the rest of the team picks up the slack and ensures things don't fall completely apart.

Here, you end up with some dumb comedy of errors (more often than not, sparked by blown calls or gaffes by officials) that get compounded by ever more errors, as the entire team falls apart for a lone, tragic inning of chaos.

Is that reaching for some absurdist excuse...? To say, hey, it's not so simple as one not-Gio Game 5 starter or a manager who doesn't have their head up their ass and makes a correct pitching matchup change and we walk away in an NLCS?

Perhaps. Perhaps it is actually that simple. All the same, however, I don't believe you can have such a constant degree of exactly duplicated tragedies and that somehow, on some level, there isn't a link between them. We are talking about far too great a span of time involving far too many examples now, and each one of which is eerily the mirror image of the others. Three blown innings in three NLDS Game 5's where four runs were given away in a 1-2 run loss, and the fourth, 2014, with an 18 inning horror+close Game 4, was just as bad.

Oh, BTW, as N2P succinctly stated...? Indeed, the NoKos are coming! Fear the NoKos - it's bunker time, baby!

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: CHOKERS, LOSERS, FAILURES
« Reply #90: October 15, 2017, 01:09:16 PM »
If Werth and Weiters weren't playing then the Nats win this series. It's really that simple. Their play was so bad that it tilted the whole series.
So we are back to blaming the medical staff?  They stink.

Offline Mighty Casey

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Re: CHOKERS, LOSERS, FAILURES
« Reply #91: October 15, 2017, 03:46:02 PM »
Boswell's column in the Sunday Post says it all....no will to win...no fire, home runs or bust...no imagination, no playbook, no nuttin' except choking under pressure....something we've seen for quite a while.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: CHOKERS, LOSERS, FAILURES
« Reply #92: October 15, 2017, 06:23:10 PM »
The Nats, like their fan base, are sackless cucks.