Author Topic: 2017-2018 Off-season Discussion Thread  (Read 52452 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Natsinpwc

  • Posts: 11490
Re: 2017-2018 Off-season Discussion Thread
« Reply #1450: March 08, 2018, 09:21:08 AM »
Not so much anymore.  I ran my 2016 numbers as if under the new tax law and my state and local taxes got reduced so much that I wouldn't itemize, which means the interest deduction was rendered worthless.

Your mileage may vary.
Depends on his situation. I believe the limit on mortgage interest is on loans up to 750,000 in the final bill. I haven't paid much attention to that since my loan is nowhere near that. If he used an equity loan on another property to help with his down payment the interest on equity loans is no longer deductible with some exceptions. His state and local taxes deduction will be limited to 10,000 which will probably hurt him in DC. If he is single his standard deduction if 12,000. I could see him exceeding that easily and itemizing his deductions. If he rents out a room to Ray or FP that would complicate things.

Offline LoveAngelos

  • Posts: 758
Re: 2017-2018 Off-season Discussion Thread
« Reply #1451: March 08, 2018, 10:00:53 AM »
Yes, it would complicate things.

FP would get on Ray's  nerves and get pummeled by Ray by mid season. If that happens there goes the depreciation deduction per the tax code

Offline Natsinpwc

  • Posts: 11490
Re: 2017-2018 Off-season Discussion Thread
« Reply #1452: March 08, 2018, 11:21:08 AM »
Yes, it would complicate things.

FP would get on Ray's  nerves and get pummeled by Ray by mid season. If that happens there goes the depreciation deduction per the tax code
Sounds good to me. I think he might be able to offset costs for criminal proceedings against his rental income in that case.

Online imref

  • Posts: 25956
  • 1B: The New Hot Corner
Re: 2017-2018 Off-season Discussion Thread
« Reply #1453: March 08, 2018, 12:58:55 PM »
Nats have extended their deal with WJFK thorough 2022 and kolko is getting a radio show.

Offline tomterp

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 32890
  • Hell yes!
Re: 2017-2018 Off-season Discussion Thread
« Reply #1454: March 08, 2018, 01:36:21 PM »
A row house huh?
Does that mean we'll  be seeing Mike sitting out on his front stoop on hot summer days?

Shining up the marble steps I'm thinking.

Offline tomterp

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 32890
  • Hell yes!
Re: 2017-2018 Off-season Discussion Thread
« Reply #1455: March 08, 2018, 01:38:47 PM »
Depends on his situation. I believe the limit on mortgage interest is on loans up to 750,000 in the final bill. I haven't paid much attention to that since my loan is nowhere near that. If he used an equity loan on another property to help with his down payment the interest on equity loans is no longer deductible with some exceptions. His state and local taxes deduction will be limited to 10,000 which will probably hurt him in DC. If he is single his standard deduction if 12,000. I could see him exceeding that easily and itemizing his deductions. If he rents out a room to Ray or FP that would complicate things.

My own interest deduction is under $9k now since I've been building equity and rolling it into my purchases since I sold my first condo in 1991.  I wonder if a GM should apportion income among the states he travels to like players do?  Probably not.

Offline Natsinpwc

  • Posts: 11490
Re: 2017-2018 Off-season Discussion Thread
« Reply #1456: March 08, 2018, 01:44:13 PM »
My own interest deduction is under $9k now since I've been building equity and rolling it into my purchases since I sold my first condo in 1991.  I wonder if a GM should apportion income among the states he travels to like players do?  Probably not.
It should be possible if he is traveling. I don't think he travels as much as the players however.

Offline varoadking

  • Posts: 22355
  • This is Howie do it...
Re: 2017-2018 Off-season Discussion Thread
« Reply #1457: March 08, 2018, 02:08:16 PM »
It should be possible if he is traveling. I don't think he travels as much as the players however.

Isn't he at every game?  I know I have seen him in several away parks...

Offline tomterp

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 32890
  • Hell yes!
Re: 2017-2018 Off-season Discussion Thread
« Reply #1458: March 08, 2018, 03:26:38 PM »
Isn't he at every game?  I know I have seen him in several away parks...

Pretty much I thought, but one key difference is that he's full time year round.  I think players divide their paychecks by games only, maybe because that's how minor league call-ups are compensated (1/162 x MLB minimum).  You'd think spring training in florida would get an allocation, and as a player you'd want that of course.

Offline bluestreak

  • Posts: 4877
Re: 2017-2018 Off-season Discussion Thread
« Reply #1459: March 08, 2018, 03:58:30 PM »
Depends on his situation. I believe the limit on mortgage interest is on loans up to 750,000 in the final bill. I haven't paid much attention to that since my loan is nowhere near that. If he used an equity loan on another property to help with his down payment the interest on equity loans is no longer deductible with some exceptions. His state and local taxes deduction will be limited to 10,000 which will probably hurt him in DC. If he is single his standard deduction if 12,000. I could see him exceeding that easily and itemizing his deductions. If he rents out a room to Ray or FP that would complicate things.

There is no way that Mike Rizzo is taking the standard deduction.

But the limit is 750,000 in the new tax bill. It was $1,000,000 if you bought the house prior to December 14, 2017. But who knows if the guy even got a mortgage. He makes 2.5 million per year. It's not out of the realm of possibility that he bought a $1.3 million house outright.

Now that I am looking at this, I am wondering if I am responding to a joke post. O well.

Offline Natsinpwc

  • Posts: 11490
Re: 2017-2018 Off-season Discussion Thread
« Reply #1460: March 08, 2018, 07:55:43 PM »
There is no way that Mike Rizzo is taking the standard deduction.

But the limit is 750,000 in the new tax bill. It was $1,000,000 if you bought the house prior to December 14, 2017. But who knows if the guy even got a mortgage. He makes 2.5 million per year. It's not out of the realm of possibility that he bought a $1.3 million house outright.

Now that I am looking at this, I am wondering if I am responding to a joke post. O well.
He will be reaping the benefits of that too tax bracket going from 39.5 to 37 percent.

Offline aBaltoNat

  • Posts: 1413
Re: 2017-2018 Off-season Discussion Thread
« Reply #1461: March 08, 2018, 09:37:02 PM »
Moustakas and Cargo nearing 1 yr deals to return to their former clubs.

Offline bluestreak

  • Posts: 4877
Re: 2017-2018 Off-season Discussion Thread
« Reply #1462: March 08, 2018, 11:34:40 PM »
Moustakas basically signed a 1 year deal for 6.5 million bucks. I feel like for that money, he’d be a better option than Adams at 4 million. It’s crazy how little he went for. I know he plays 3rd, but he’s a lefty bat who I imagine could play first. Back up Rendon and Zim.

Offline Slateman

  • Posts: 43267
Re: 2017-2018 Off-season Discussion Thread
« Reply #1463: March 09, 2018, 07:32:56 AM »
Moustakas basically signed a 1 year deal for 6.5 million bucks. I feel like for that money, he’d be a better option than Adams at 4 million. It’s crazy how little he went for. I know he plays 3rd, but he’s a lefty bat who I imagine could play first. Back up Rendon and Zim.

Moustakas is going to want to start.

Online imref

  • Posts: 25956
  • 1B: The New Hot Corner
Re: 2017-2018 Off-season Discussion Thread
« Reply #1464: March 09, 2018, 08:21:20 AM »
Moustakas basically signed a 1 year deal for 6.5 million bucks. I feel like for that money, he’d be a better option than Adams at 4 million. It’s crazy how little he went for. I know he plays 3rd, but he’s a lefty bat who I imagine could play first. Back up Rendon and Zim.

Boras did a terrible job for him.  Jeff Sullivan notes that there never really was a market for Moustakis as there were few 3B openings and those teams who could have used him weren't going to give up the draft picks to get him.  He should have signed the QO immediately.

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/why-mike-moustakas-market-didnt-develop/

The Sullivan piece also notes that Moustakas wasn't the same runner after tearing his ACL.  Not a good omen for Eaton.

Offline Mattionals

  • Posts: 4238
  • Smooth Jazz Nyan Cat - Blue Raspberry Edition
Re: 2017-2018 Off-season Discussion Thread
« Reply #1465: March 09, 2018, 11:30:53 AM »
Boras did a terrible job for him.  Jeff Sullivan notes that there never really was a market for Moustakis as there were few 3B openings and those teams who could have used him weren't going to give up the draft picks to get him.  He should have signed the QO immediately.

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/why-mike-moustakas-market-didnt-develop/

The Sullivan piece also notes that Moustakas wasn't the same runner after tearing his ACL.  Not a good omen for Eaton.

Moustakas has never been a good runner. Eaton realizes that his legs are a huge part of his game and I doubt that he doesn't know that. I think Moose's ACL injury isn't an apples to apples comparison here.

Offline LoveAngelos

  • Posts: 758
Re: 2017-2018 Off-season Discussion Thread
« Reply #1466: March 09, 2018, 11:46:56 AM »
I dont know why players hire a representative  who feels his own personal interests are paramount  to the players.

Offline UMDNats

  • Posts: 14111
  • 2018 nationals
Re: 2017-2018 Off-season Discussion Thread
« Reply #1467: March 09, 2018, 11:56:54 AM »
Boras misread the market this offseason for sure, but he's proven to be the best in the business at maximizing payouts for his clients. He's not alone on getting screwed this winter.

Offline Mattionals

  • Posts: 4238
  • Smooth Jazz Nyan Cat - Blue Raspberry Edition
Re: 2017-2018 Off-season Discussion Thread
« Reply #1468: March 09, 2018, 12:54:04 PM »
Boras misread the market this offseason for sure, but he's proven to be the best in the business at maximizing payouts for his clients. He's not alone on getting screwed this winter.

Absolutely he isn't alone. I don't think any agent could have predicted what this offseason has brought. The number of players with over 20 homers last season has devalued home runs considerably, mostly because it is generally thought that there will be a big correction next season. Even with the trend of higher launch angles, the possibility of a juiced ball, and ballparks pulling in their fences, it is expected that homers will return to more "normal" trends. That would make the likes of the guys with crap BABIPs or who had spikes in BABIP due to said previous conditions but with balls hit in the gaps (more elevated balls due to the juiced ball theory and/or the launch angle approach) way less valuable, but compared to similar players in years previous, those guys get screwed. Also, relief pitching is really becoming a huge investment to teams, who would rather stack their bullpens with two or three inning guys and a closer than invest in starting pitching. Hell, the Rays are going to a "bullpen game" because of the ability of young flamethrowers who can only pitch 3 innings max.

That is just the perception on the field, then comes the CBA luxury tax and teams wanting to get underneath it so they don't have to get fined. I honestly didn't see the escalator in the calculation until it was pointed out to me here, but an additional 12 percent of tax gets added on top of whatever the team is paying if they exceed 217 Million in tax. The Red Sox are there, and other teams have shown that they aren't going to take a hit that could be paying essentially another middle reliever on the open market one year of salary.

Add into this the teams that are essentially saying they don't want to spend any money to compete (Marlins, Pirates, Rays, Braves) and want to basically tank the season for best draft pick and it's easy to see why players are talking about a possible strike. I mean, the Nats are likely going to trot out Cole every 5th day. Sure, the hope is that Fedde steps up and/or Ross comes back healthy and strong, but teams usually wouldn't take those gambles if it wasn't for such a perfect storm of events. Front offices being reluctant to offer mediocre and/or declining players big contracts that put them over a financial line with large financial penalties.

Offline mitlen

  • Posts: 55778
  • We had 'em all the way.
Re: 2017-2018 Off-season Discussion Thread
« Reply #1469: March 09, 2018, 12:56:41 PM »
Absolutely he isn't alone. I don't think any agent could have predicted what this offseason has brought. The number of players with over 20 homers last season has devalued home runs considerably, mostly because it is generally thought that there will be a big correction next season. Even with the trend of higher launch angles, the possibility of a juiced ball, and ballparks pulling in their fences, it is expected that homers will return to more "normal" trends. That would make the likes of the guys with crap BABIPs or who had spikes in BABIP due to said previous conditions but with balls hit in the gaps (more elevated balls due to the juiced ball theory and/or the launch angle approach) way less valuable, but compared to similar players in years previous, those guys get screwed. Also, relief pitching is really becoming a huge investment to teams, who would rather stack their bullpens with two or three inning guys and a closer than invest in starting pitching. Hell, the Rays are going to a "bullpen game" because of the ability of young flamethrowers who can only pitch 3 innings max.

That is just the perception on the field, then comes the CBA luxury tax and teams wanting to get underneath it so they don't have to get fined. I honestly didn't see the escalator in the calculation until it was pointed out to me here, but an additional 12 percent of tax gets added on top of whatever the team is paying if they exceed 217 Million in tax. The Red Sox are there, and other teams have shown that they aren't going to take a hit that could be paying essentially another middle reliever on the open market one year of salary.

Add into this the teams that are essentially saying they don't want to spend any money to compete (Marlins, Pirates, Rays, Braves) and want to basically tank the season for best draft pick and it's easy to see why players are talking about a possible strike. I mean, the Nats are likely going to trot out Cole every 5th day. Sure, the hope is that Fedde steps up and/or Ross comes back healthy and strong, but teams usually wouldn't take those gambles if it wasn't for such a perfect storm of events. Front offices being reluctant to offer mediocre and/or declining players big contracts that put them over a financial line with large financial penalties.

I appreciate your posts.

Offline Mattionals

  • Posts: 4238
  • Smooth Jazz Nyan Cat - Blue Raspberry Edition
Re: 2017-2018 Off-season Discussion Thread
« Reply #1470: March 09, 2018, 01:01:49 PM »
I appreciate your posts.

Thanks, and I was thinking "someone is going to yell at me for 2 sentences MAX!"  :mg:

Seriously though, there are days that I wonder if I could have pursued a different career. Then I remind myself that I love what I do and engineering pays better than journalism.

Offline mitlen

  • Posts: 55778
  • We had 'em all the way.
Re: 2017-2018 Off-season Discussion Thread
« Reply #1471: March 09, 2018, 01:03:09 PM »
Thanks, and I was thinking "someone is going to yell at me for 2 sentences MAX!"  :mg:

Seriously though, there are days that I wonder if I could have pursued a different career. Then I remind myself that I love what I do and engineering pays better than journalism.

I thought about a Coladar reference but decided to be nice.    :P    There's a couple of folks' posts who provide information that I would never be aware of  ...  too lazy to look.    :shrug:     The generally concise presentation of this information makes it easier for me to figure out some of baseball's back room complexity.      Thanks again ....

Offline 3bside

  • Posts: 481
Re: 2017-2018 Off-season Discussion Thread
« Reply #1472: March 09, 2018, 01:51:32 PM »
Moustakos got a qualifying offer, so he would have cost any team other than KC draft picks and international signing money.  That's the same problem with Alex Cobb -- he would be a good option for us to sign a pillow contract, but he would cost us our 2nd and 5th round picks plus 1 million in international signing money.

Offline varoadking

  • Posts: 22355
  • This is Howie do it...
Re: 2017-2018 Off-season Discussion Thread
« Reply #1473: March 09, 2018, 02:27:29 PM »
Moustakos got a qualifying offer, so he would have cost any team other than KC draft picks and international signing money.  That's the same problem with Alex Cobb -- he would be a good option for us to sign a pillow contract, but he would cost us our 2nd and 5th round picks plus 1 million in international signing money.

So he gambled on himself and lost $10MM...at least for now...

Offline UMDNats

  • Posts: 14111
  • 2018 nationals
Re: 2017-2018 Off-season Discussion Thread
« Reply #1474: March 09, 2018, 02:49:06 PM »
Absolutely he isn't alone. I don't think any agent could have predicted what this offseason has brought. The number of players with over 20 homers last season has devalued home runs considerably, mostly because it is generally thought that there will be a big correction next season. Even with the trend of higher launch angles, the possibility of a juiced ball, and ballparks pulling in their fences, it is expected that homers will return to more "normal" trends. That would make the likes of the guys with crap BABIPs or who had spikes in BABIP due to said previous conditions but with balls hit in the gaps (more elevated balls due to the juiced ball theory and/or the launch angle approach) way less valuable, but compared to similar players in years previous, those guys get screwed. Also, relief pitching is really becoming a huge investment to teams, who would rather stack their bullpens with two or three inning guys and a closer than invest in starting pitching. Hell, the Rays are going to a "bullpen game" because of the ability of young flamethrowers who can only pitch 3 innings max.

That is just the perception on the field, then comes the CBA luxury tax and teams wanting to get underneath it so they don't have to get fined. I honestly didn't see the escalator in the calculation until it was pointed out to me here, but an additional 12 percent of tax gets added on top of whatever the team is paying if they exceed 217 Million in tax. The Red Sox are there, and other teams have shown that they aren't going to take a hit that could be paying essentially another middle reliever on the open market one year of salary.

Add into this the teams that are essentially saying they don't want to spend any money to compete (Marlins, Pirates, Rays, Braves) and want to basically tank the season for best draft pick and it's easy to see why players are talking about a possible strike. I mean, the Nats are likely going to trot out Cole every 5th day. Sure, the hope is that Fedde steps up and/or Ross comes back healthy and strong, but teams usually wouldn't take those gambles if it wasn't for such a perfect storm of events. Front offices being reluctant to offer mediocre and/or declining players big contracts that put them over a financial line with large financial penalties.

i agree with all of this and think boras approached this offseason with an old-school mentality ("teams will line up to sign a cy young winner in arrieta!") without looking at current trends in how front offices value players and construct teams.