Author Topic: Why is "The National Pastime" only the 3rd most popular sport?  (Read 1808 times)

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Offline Vega

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Nice cherry-picking, but it fails just as often as it works.  See: the Marlins during the Beinfest/Hill era, the Padres, the Brewers, the A's, the Orioles, etc.
Citing the last three World Series winners counts as cherry-picking? I'll add that the intent should of course be to continue to draft well and sign good foreign prospects to replace guys who become ineffective or leave in free agency to try to prolong a window and avoid a rebuild for as long as possible, but when a roster reaches the point that it no longer is a viable contender, rebuilds should happen. It might not work, but it's still usually the logical option. Also, kinda funny to note that the Pads can count as examples of both methods failing in their perpetual rebuild state and when they made all those deals in 2015 and still failed.

Online varoadking

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Citing the last three World Series winners counts as cherry-picking? I'll add that the intent should of course be to continue to draft well and sign good foreign prospects to replace guys who become ineffective or leave in free agency to try to prolong a window and avoid a rebuild for as long as possible, but when a roster reaches the point that it no longer is a viable contender, rebuilds should happen. It might not work, but it's still usually the logical option. Also, kinda funny to note that the Pads can count as examples of both methods failing in their perpetual rebuild state and when they made all those deals in 2015 and still failed.

I look at it like the Cubs didn't so much "rebuild" in the traditional way of thinking, rather they hired a new project architect...the Frank Lloyd Wright of MLB...

Maybe splitting hairs there...


Online HalfSmokes

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Citing the last three World Series winners counts as cherry-picking? I'll add that the intent should of course be to continue to draft well and sign good foreign prospects to replace guys who become ineffective or leave in free agency to try to prolong a window and avoid a rebuild for as long as possible, but when a roster reaches the point that it no longer is a viable contender, rebuilds should happen. It might not work, but it's still usually the logical option. Also, kinda funny to note that the Pads can count as examples of both methods failing in their perpetual rebuild state and when they made all those deals in 2015 and still failed.

Which is nice if you're a fan of those teams while they're peaking, tune in any other time during the decade(s) long cycle and it's not so fun.

Offline Vega

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I look at it like the Cubs didn't so much "rebuild" in the traditional way of thinking, rather they hired a new project architect...the Frank Lloyd Wright of MLB...

Maybe splitting hairs there...


Well, Theo traded Jeff Smardzija, Aramis Ramirez, Andrew Cashner, Matt Garza, Scott Feldman, Ryan Dempster, and Alfonso Soriano and got some very significant contributors like Arrieta, Hendricks, Russell, and Rizzo in those deals. They also used the high draft picks they accumulated to get Bryant, Schwarber, Happ, and Almora. They also dedicated resources to acquiring foreign prospects like Baez, Contreras, and Torres who was dealt for a significant piece of the WS team. Yeah, it may have been overseen by a genius and they already kinda sucked when he arrived, but they very much did tear the team down and rebuild via the farm and then supplemented with free agents once they were ready to make their move. (KC and Houston did the same thing.)

Offline Vega

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Which is nice if you're a fan of those teams while they're peaking, tune in any other time during the decade(s) long cycle and it's not so fun.
I'll admit that I have an unusually detached view for a sports fan, but to me, the cycle of good and bad is kinda just a mostly unavoidable thing that happens and you just shrug and hope for the best in the future during the rough patches.

Online HalfSmokes

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I'll admit that I have an unusually detached view for a sports fan, but to me, the cycle of good and bad is kinda just a mostly unavoidable thing that happens and you just shrug and hope for the best in the future during the rough patches.

Which is great if you cherry pick teams, but if you're a team trying to sell tickets locally you're hoping fans don't shrug.

Offline Vega

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Which is great if you cherry pick teams, but if you're a team trying to sell tickets locally you're hoping fans don't shrug.

True. I wonder if the increased fan involvement in winning seasons and playoffs appearances typically offsets the decrease in tickets/merch sales during rebuild years?

Online HalfSmokes

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True. I wonder if the increased fan involvement in winning seasons and playoffs appearances typically offsets the decrease in tickets/merch sales during rebuild years?

That assumes that the winning ever occurs, there are plenty of teams that both attempt to build through the draft and perpetually suck. I'm guessing that for a team like the cubs, the winning is massively profitable, but I wonder about team like the pirates who peaked at the nlds before starting another rebuild

Offline Vega

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That assumes that the winning ever occurs, there are plenty of teams that both attempt to build through the draft and perpetually suck. I'm guessing that for a team like the cubs, the winning is massively profitable, but I wonder about team like the pirates who peaked at the nlds before starting another rebuild
Pittsburgh had about five solid years, so they are probably a yes. Teams that only managed a brief one or two year flash of relevance like the most recent Oakland and Cinci playoff teams? Possibly not.

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Citing the last three World Series winners counts as cherry-picking?

Did you not see all those teams I listed?  When you have a bevy of teams that have gone with the "build from the ground up and see if it works" model and only a handful of them have been successful and you happen to name only those that have been successful in recent year, that's called cherry-picking.

Online varoadking

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Well, Theo traded Jeff Smardzija, Aramis Ramirez, Andrew Cashner, Matt Garza, Scott Feldman, Ryan Dempster, and Alfonso Soriano and got some very significant contributors like Arrieta, Hendricks, Russell, and Rizzo in those deals. They also used the high draft picks they accumulated to get Bryant, Schwarber, Happ, and Almora. They also dedicated resources to acquiring foreign prospects like Baez, Contreras, and Torres who was dealt for a significant piece of the WS team. Yeah, it may have been overseen by a genius and they already kinda sucked when he arrived, but they very much did tear the team down and rebuild via the farm and then supplemented with free agents once they were ready to make their move. (KC and Houston did the same thing.)

I guess my point was they didn't rebuild...they built...with a fresh set of plans.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Except that building teams via tearing them down and building farm systems is proven to work. See the Royals, Cubs, and Astros. Would you tell the Tigers that they should have kept Upton, JD, Verlander, and Kinsler in a vain attempt to contend next year even though that team had clearly run its course and wasn't gonna win anymore? The smart solution is to rebuild. It sucks for Tigers fans right now, but if you asked Astros fans if those years of being awful were worth it to get a World Series, they'd probably say yes.
what I kind of like is what the Giants are doing.  They seem to be saying "we'll pick up the vets folks don't want, year after year, and contend with that."  Sabean used to get a lot of grief up to 2010 for pick up a lot of old guys, and it looks like he's doing it again.  Sign Cain, and they have an old but potentially terrific line up. Big if is health, but is a bigger if than expecting to hit on all the prospects say the ChiSox accumulated?

Offline expos1994

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Season is too long. Which doesn't bother me much, but I think casual fans lose interest a few months in. I enjoy having baseball for as long as we do each year. One thing that could easily be done is to shorten the season just enough to allow the Wild card series to be 3 games. And lengthen the Divisional series to 7 games. More playoff baseball... but with the same number of teams getting in. Might make fans more interested.

Offline LoveAngelos

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Season is too long. Which doesn't bother me much, but I think casual fans lose interest a few months in. I enjoy having baseball for as long as we do each year. One thing that could easily be done is to shorten the season just enough to allow the Wild card series to be 3 games. And lengthen the Divisional series to 7 games. More playoff baseball... but with the same number of teams getting in. Might make fans more interested.

The length of season is a real interest killer imho. I have no use for NBA and NHL for that reason and the number of teams who make the  "playoffs" aka real season. It also devalues a championship when the season starts anew a month later.