Author Topic: Post season roster  (Read 6402 times)

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Re: Post season roster
« Reply #25: August 31, 2017, 10:43:05 AM »
Harper is going to be back and likely close enough to 100% to be productive.  Yesterday the reports were glim.  The day before I saw he was walking with no limp and progressing well.  I think they are just downplaying things so it's not a huge letdown if he somehow doesn't return, but rather it's very uplifting when he does. 

Offline varoadking

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Re: Post season roster
« Reply #26: August 31, 2017, 11:10:57 AM »
Harper is going to be back and likely close enough to 100% to be productive.  Yesterday the reports were glim.  The day before I saw he was walking with no limp and progressing well.  I think they are just downplaying things so it's not a huge letdown if he somehow doesn't return, but rather it's very uplifting when he does.

Under-promise / over-deliver has not exactly been the Nationals MO to this point...

Offline Slateman

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Re: Post season roster
« Reply #27: August 31, 2017, 11:13:44 AM »
Under-promise / over-deliver has not exactly been the Nationals MO to this point...
Yep. Don't count on Harper at all.

THe worst would be if Harper tries to come back but isn't healthy.

Offline spidernat

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Re: Post season roster
« Reply #28: August 31, 2017, 11:26:15 AM »


THe worst would be if Harper tries to come back but isn't healthy.


Yeah this could end up hurting our chances.

Offline Ray D

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Re: Post season roster
« Reply #29: August 31, 2017, 11:43:06 AM »
as a fan I don't expect a full medical accounting.

As a fan, here's what I expect.  I expect that sufficient and accurate details be released to the public for experts to analyze independently and give their best estimate of when he will return and how ready he will be when he returns.  Obviously it would be only a prediction, but it would be a good-faith prediction.  I don't want to hear ANYTHING from the club, because they are liars. Either that or idiots, but they have proven over many years that they are not to be trusted.

As fans, I absolutely believe we deserve this level of honesty. (And no,  I don't expect a full medical accounting.)

Offline bluestreak

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Re: Post season roster
« Reply #30: August 31, 2017, 11:46:31 AM »
As a fan, here's what I expect.  I expect that sufficient and accurate details be released to the public for experts to analyze independently and give their best estimate of when he will return and how ready he will be when he returns.  Obviously it would be only a prediction, but it would be a good-faith prediction.  I don't want to hear ANYTHING from the club, because they are liars. Either that or idiots, but they have proven over many years that they are not to be trusted.

As fans, I absolutely believe we deserve this level of honesty. (And no,  I don't expect a full medical accounting.)

Unless you're gambling, why does a fan need this information? I don't expect full level accounting or even close to it. If he's definitely not coming back, I'd like to know that. But otherwise, when he comes back I'll be happy. It's not like I need to game plan.

Offline Ray D

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Re: Post season roster
« Reply #31: August 31, 2017, 12:03:11 PM »
Unless you're gambling, why does a fan need this information?
I don't need to watch the game either, I can find out the score the next day.    We don't need fan forums either, do we.

  This isn't about need; there is an implicit contract between baseball and fan: Fan provides revenue.  Baseball provides entertainment, and information intended to enhance our fan experience. 

Offline 3bside

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Re: Post season roster
« Reply #32: August 31, 2017, 12:06:01 PM »
Hopes you guys aren't hockey fans.  All we ever get from the Caps is "upper-body injury" and "lower-body injury."

Offline Smithian

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Re: Post season roster
« Reply #33: August 31, 2017, 12:12:53 PM »
If that's the case I don't want him back. He may think that he at 50% is better than a healthy Kendrick but I don't believe that is true.
If that's the case I don't want him back. He may think that he at 50% is better than a healthy Kendrick but I don't believe that is true.
I'm on board with this.

I would rather have Werth, Lind, and Kendrick all healthy playing the outfield than Harper hurt. None of those guys have the ability like he does to maybe take over a series, but Harper has a history of playing hurt and dragging down the lineup.

Offline NatsAllThe Way

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Re: Post season roster
« Reply #34: August 31, 2017, 12:32:15 PM »
Yep. Don't count on Harper at all.

THe worst would be if Harper tries to come back but isn't healthy.

Vin Scully disagrees.

Offline monkeyhit

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Re: Post season roster
« Reply #35: August 31, 2017, 12:32:33 PM »
Pretty much screwed in any playoff without Harper. Oh well, next April's roster:

Eaton LF
Turner/Difo SS
Harper RF
Rendon 3B
Murphy 2b
Taylor CF
Lind 1B
Weiters (or someone else) C


Offline bluestreak

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Re: Post season roster
« Reply #36: August 31, 2017, 12:34:11 PM »
I don't need to watch the game either, I can find out the score the next day.    We don't need fan forums either, do we.

  This isn't about need; there is an implicit contract between baseball and fan: Fan provides revenue.  Baseball provides entertainment, and information intended to enhance our fan experience.

It just isn't clear to me what more you want. He's not playing, the Nats have told us he's not playing due to an injury which they have specified (knee bone bruise). A calf strain is incidental to the bone bruise. They have given an estimated time frame for the his return and said they expect him back for the playoffs.When he was not progressing like they had hoped we found out about that too.  I'm not sure what else you want other than looking at his chart and viewing the actual MRI images. I personally do not think I am entitled to this because I buy a ticket.

Injuries can be hard to predict. Diagnoses can be made that change after time has passed and more information is obtained. It is inexact.

Offline Smithian

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Re: Post season roster
« Reply #37: August 31, 2017, 12:34:23 PM »
Starters
C    Wieters
1B   Zimmerman
2B   Murphy
3B   Rendon
SS   Trea Turner
RF   Kendrick
CF   Taylor
LF   Werth

Bench
Lobaton
Lind
Difo - I'm not against him starting a game in the corner outfield if Kendrick or Werth is struggling.
Goodwin/De Aza - If Goodwin is healthy, he's the guy. If he is hurt, it is De Aza suffices as a late inning pinch runner and defensive sub.
Sanchez - We could use a right handed pinch hitter but there isn't one who make sense. Sanchez is versatile. Useful as a 25th man.

Starters
Scherzer
Strasburg
Gonzalez
Roark

Bullpen
Doolittle
Madson
Kintzler
Perez
Albers
Grace
Solis
Blanton - If he is getting shelled in September, I maybe put Jackson or AJ Cole here as a long reliever in case game one or two gets ugly early.

Offline dcpatti

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Re: Post season roster
« Reply #38: August 31, 2017, 12:43:04 PM »
I don't need to watch the game either, I can find out the score the next day.    We don't need fan forums either, do we.

  This isn't about need; there is an implicit contract between baseball and fan: Fan provides revenue.  Baseball provides entertainment, and information intended to enhance our fan experience.

How does this information "enhance our fan experience"? 

As fans, we aren't "entitled" to a darn thing when it comes to injury news. Anyone who speaks in anything but high-level terms, especially early in a player's treatment/recovery, is foolish.  The human body has its own timeline and that doesn't always reveal itself till recovery is well underway.  The major injury is going to dictate the timeline, not the secondary injuries.  Bryce is going to be out with a bone bruise for an undetermined amount of time; the calf strain doesn't make a lick of difference. Johnny Cueto is out with a forearm strain; guess what, he has finger blisters too, but does that really matter in light of the forearm strain? Guess what else, they're not sure if he will be back this season or not. He's not responding to treatment like they'd hoped. Welcome to the human body.

  I'd wager that at least a quarter of the guys league-wide currently on the DL have a secondary issue beyond whatever's on the news reports.  It's really silly to get worked up over it.

Re: Post season roster
« Reply #39: August 31, 2017, 01:33:44 PM »
Pretty much screwed in any playoff without Harper. Oh well, next April's roster:

Eaton LF
Turner/Difo SS
Harper RF
Rendon 3B
Murphy 2b
Taylor CF
Lind 1B
Weiters (or someone else) C

Are you predicting Ryan Zimmerman decides to retire early "on top" and walk away from tens of millions left guaranteed to him?  In which case we resign Adam Lind?

Offline Count Walewski

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Re: Post season roster
« Reply #40: August 31, 2017, 01:36:28 PM »
Are you predicting Ryan Zimmerman decides to retire early "on top" and walk away from tens of millions left guaranteed to him?  In which case we resign Adam Lind?

I assume Zimmerman gets injured in Spring Training in that scenario.

Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: Post season roster
« Reply #41: August 31, 2017, 01:37:34 PM »
Pretty much screwed in any playoff without Harper. Oh well, next April's roster:
Nah, not if Max, Stras and Gio do their thing, they'll still matchup pretty well with anyone. But, yeah, having Harper back would be a big help.

Re: Post season roster
« Reply #42: August 31, 2017, 01:37:55 PM »
I assume Zimmerman gets injured in Spring Training in that scenario.

Adam Lind is likely getting a 2 or 3 year deal in the winter to play DH in the AL.  I seriously doubt we're able to bring him back.

Offline spidernat

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Re: Post season roster
« Reply #43: August 31, 2017, 01:42:08 PM »
It just isn't clear to me what more you want. He's not playing, the Nats have told us he's not playing due to an injury which they have specified (knee bone bruise). A calf strain is incidental to the bone bruise. They have given an estimated time frame for the his return and said they expect him back for the playoffs.When he was not progressing like they had hoped we found out about that too.  I'm not sure what else you want other than looking at his chart and viewing the actual MRI images. I personally do not think I am entitled to this because I buy a ticket.

Injuries can be hard to predict. Diagnoses can be made that change after time has passed and more information is obtained. It is inexact.





How does this information "enhance our fan experience"? 

As fans, we aren't "entitled" to a darn thing when it comes to injury news. Anyone who speaks in anything but high-level terms, especially early in a player's treatment/recovery, is foolish.  The human body has its own timeline and that doesn't always reveal itself till recovery is well underway.  The major injury is going to dictate the timeline, not the secondary injuries.  Bryce is going to be out with a bone bruise for an undetermined amount of time; the calf strain doesn't make a lick of difference. Johnny Cueto is out with a forearm strain; guess what, he has finger blisters too, but does that really matter in light of the forearm strain? Guess what else, they're not sure if he will be back this season or not. He's not responding to treatment like they'd hoped. Welcome to the human body.

  I'd wager that at least a quarter of the guys league-wide currently on the DL have a secondary issue beyond whatever's on the news reports.  It's really silly to get worked up over it.




:clap: :clap:

Offline varoadking

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Re: Post season roster
« Reply #44: August 31, 2017, 02:15:42 PM »
Adam Lind is likely getting a 2 or 3 year deal in the winter to play DH in the AL.  I seriously doubt we're able to bring him back.

I agree...

Re: Post season roster
« Reply #45: August 31, 2017, 02:32:12 PM »
I doubt the Nats know for sure either way with Harper, but I guarantee 100% in his mind he is returning and I bet the team thinks that is likely while also preparing for him to not return.  2 days ago the report was he was able to walk without any limp.  Yesterday the big wet blanket was he "wasn't close to running."  Does that mean he can't run or just that they see no reason to push it at this moment?  Clearly there is a timetable of what he needs to do when to get back by say the last week of September to get geared up for the postseason.  There is no reason to push him ahead of that timetable.  It's a matter of if he can meet that timetable or not, and that we just don't know. 

As for Harper "hurting the team" when playing injured before, I don't know about that.  First, different injuries can impact your ability to perform in different ways.  Wahetever Harper dealt with last year might have been a lot more hampering to his game than say playing on a knee that is still a bit sore.  We don't know that.  I also think that Harper has to be quite a bit hampered to still not be our best option to pencil in the lineup.  He is always going to be a guy who gets on base because even if he's not 100%, pitchers are still not exactly going to come right at him to find out. 

I think it's prudent to not react to dramatically to each little tidbit about his progress.  1 day it might sound positive and the next it might seem negative, as we've seen the past 2 days.  We do know that Harper wants to play.  I don't see any risk of a significant reinjury to where he'd not be able to get healthy this winter.  If he gives it a go and he's set back in a minor way, what's there to lose when you have a whole offseason ahead and are chasing a World Series?  Harper wants that ring.

Offline spidernat

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Re: Post season roster
« Reply #46: August 31, 2017, 02:38:34 PM »
If he wants to play while he is still not 100% it's not like the Nationals have any power to tell him no.

Re: Post season roster
« Reply #47: August 31, 2017, 02:46:58 PM »
If he wants to play while he is still not 100% it's not like the Nationals have any power to tell him no.

He's played at a MVP level when healthy this year, so if he's even 75% he's going to play.  I know Howie and Goodwin are nice players, but Harper will and should play unless he's just nowhere near healthy enough.

Offline monkeyhit

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Re: Post season roster
« Reply #48: August 31, 2017, 02:49:54 PM »
Starters
C    Wieters
1B   Zimmerman
2B   Murphy
3B   Rendon
SS   Trea Turner
RF   Kendrick
CF   Taylor
LF   Werth

Bench
Lobaton
Lind
Difo - I'm not against him starting a game in the corner outfield if Kendrick or Werth is struggling.
Goodwin/De Aza - If Goodwin is healthy, he's the guy. If he is hurt, it is De Aza suffices as a late inning pinch runner and defensive sub.
Sanchez - We could use a right handed pinch hitter but there isn't one who make sense. Sanchez is versatile. Useful as a 25th man.

Starters
Scherzer
Strasburg
Gonzalez
Roark

Bullpen
Doolittle
Madson
Kintzler
Perez
Albers
Grace
Solis
Blanton - If he is getting shelled in September, I maybe put Jackson or AJ Cole here as a long reliever in case game one or two gets ugly early.

That lineup is too unbalanced with right-handed hitters, unless you face lefties all the time.

Offline Smithian

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Re: Post season roster
« Reply #49: September 01, 2017, 04:18:49 AM »
That lineup is too unbalanced with right-handed hitters, unless you face lefties all the time.
After seeing Werth in right field tonight, I wouldn't mind seeing Lind and Kendrick platoon.

Past that we don't have many left handed hitters. It looks a lot better with a healthy Bryce in there. I wouldn't mind if Goodwin got back in September and made the Nats have to think about starting him in center.