Howie Kendrick, Come on Down

[spidernat]

No, but I'm going to call you out when you say degrading things like  "Did you ever play competitive sports at a level higher than little league?"  Saying things like that  is why you got in trouble on the mlb forum and moved over here.  There isn't room for that behavior here.

wait, wat?

[CoryTheFormerExposFan]

No, but I'm going to call you out when you say degrading things like  "Did you ever play competitive sports at a level higher than little league?"  Saying things like that  is why you got in trouble on the mlb forum and moved over here.  There isn't room for that behavior here.

In what way is that degrading?  Asking if somebody is what most of the population is IE someone who hasn't played sports at a very high level?  It's relevant to my point.  I moved here because the other site didn't have enough enough intelligent discussion.  I didn't get in "trouble" but with a few like you that expect to post outrageous things on a discussion forum and people somehow agree with them.

[bluestreak]

If Kendrick's BA made him such a stud and was expected to continue at this level, then why did we get him for nothing at the deadline?  Why didn't anybody want him to put in their everyday lineup?

I dont know if I disagree with you ot not, but this isn’t the logic to prove your case. There are literally hundreds of cases throughout baseball history where someone picked up on something that literally everyone else missed. Groupthink is strong in the sports world.

[CoryTheFormerExposFan]

I dont know if I disagree with you ot not, but this isn’t the logic to prove your case. There are literally hundreds of cases throughout baseball history where someone picked up on something that literally everyone else missed. Groupthink is strong in the sports world.

The .420 BABIP is a very easy way to see that his current outstanding batting average isn't indicative of how good a hitter he actually is.  I like Howie, I said as much.  It was a very nice pickup.  He's absolutely not going to play over Werth unless Werth has some setback with his health.  Strictly from number crunching, all things considered, it's a close call.  But intangibles are going to push Werth into the lineup over Kendrick.  I could see Lind possibly platooning and getting a start against a tough righty, especially if it's a guy Werth hasn't hit well in his career.  But Kendrick isn't starting over Werth against a lefty.

[varoadking]

Asking if somebody is what most of the population is IE someone who hasn't played sports at a very high level?  It's relevant to my point.

No, not really...

[CoryTheFormerExposFan]

No, not really...

Yes, if you are a numbers geek who hasn't played at a very high level or been around that then you say player x has an OPS .04 points higher so he starts.  There isn't a manager in baseball that is going to start Howie over Werth on this team unless Werth just doesn't heal.   

[varoadking]

Yes, if you are a numbers geek who hasn't played at a very high level or been around that then you say player x has an OPS .04 points higher so he starts.  There isn't a manager in baseball that is going to start Howie over Werth on this team unless Werth just doesn't heal.

Maybe not...I know I would...and not for .004 points.  Werth is a genuine liability in the field.  Howie ain't great, but he's better than Jayson.  The are essentially the same hitter...

Asking someone if they played sports at a high level is when trying to debate an issue is...well...kinda snotty...

[Slateman]

Do you really not understand that batting average isn't the best tool to measure a hitter?  If Kendrick's BA made him such a stud and was expected to continue at this level, then why did we get him for nothing at the deadline?  Why didn't anybody want him to put in their everyday lineup?  Maybe they saw in a large sample of 487 ABs in 2016 he had an OPS of .682.  The .420 batting average on balls in play Howie has this year won't continue.

Werth had an OPS of .752 last year, and .685 in 2015. How do you know he won't revert to that?

Howie is raking. Ride him until he proves he can't. He's the better hitter and the better defender.

[CoryTheFormerExposFan]

Werth had an OPS of .752 last year, and .685 in 2015. How do you know he won't revert to that?

Howie is raking. Ride him until he proves he can't. He's the better hitter and the better defender.

It's August.  Who is "hot" now doesn't mean they are hot in the postseason.  We'll see what happens when he comes back.  Howie's "hot streak" is basically explained by luck.  Otherwise he's the same good-not-great hitter he always has been in a long career.  BABIP luck can be crazy in a short sample. 

[Slateman]

It's August.  Who is "hot" now doesn't mean they are hot in the postseason.  We'll see what happens when he comes back.  Howie's "hot streak" is basically explained by luck.  Otherwise he's the same good-not-great hitter he always has been in a long career.  BABIP luck can be crazy in a short sample. 

Howie's been hot all season. So has Adam Lind. Werth was never hot.

[CoryTheFormerExposFan]

Maybe not...I know I would...and not for .004 points.  Werth is a genuine liability in the field.  Howie ain't great, but he's better than Jayson.  The are essentially the same hitter...

Asking someone if they played sports at a high level is when trying to debate an issue is...well...kinda snotty...

It's a message board, everybody can give their take on how'd they fill out a lineup card.  The people like Dusty that get paid the big bucks to make such decisions are going to start Werth over Howie barring an injury setback.  He can be lifted for a defensive replacement late. 

[GburgNatsFan]

Howie's been hot all season. So has Adam Lind. Werth was never hot.

Some Philly wives might disagree.

[Slateman]

Some Philly wives might disagree.

[CoryTheFormerExposFan]

Howie's been hot all season. So has Adam Lind. Werth was never hot.

It's easier to be "hot" when you platoon and get mostly favorable matchups, plus a .420 BABIP is luck you can't sustain. 

[Ray D]

Some Philly wives might disagree.

Utley is with the Dodgers now.

[Slateman]

It's easier to be "hot" when you platoon and get mostly favorable matchups, plus a .420 BABIP is luck you can't sustain. 

And we're talking about platooning a guy with favorable matchups who has sustained it for a while.

[CoryTheFormerExposFan]

And we're talking about platooning a guy with favorable matchups who has sustained it for a while.

As I showed you, even with the crazy BABIP, Werth and Kendrick have essentially the same OPS versus lefties.  You can argue to play Lind against righties, but Kendrick has needed insane batted ball luck just to match Werth in OPS against lefties.  You bench the guy who has led your club for 7 years for a brand new guy when they have had equal numbers?

[Slateman]

As I showed you, even with the crazy BABIP, Werth and Kendrick have essentially the same OPS versus lefties.  You can argue to play Lind against righties, but Kendrick has needed insane batted ball luck just to match Werth in OPS against lefties.  You bench the guy who has led your club for 7 years for a brand new guy when they have had equal numbers?

If they have the same OPS, then you go with the better player. Who is Kendrick because he runs better and plays better defense.

The better player gets to start. And it's Kendrick. Particularly when Kendrick is healthy and Werth isn't.

[spidernat]

Asking someone if they played sports at a high level is when trying to debate an issue is...well...kinda snotty...

This post is toothless when you factor in that you have never posted at a high level.

[varoadking]

This post is toothless when you factor in that you have never posted at a high level.

 

[Ali the Baseball Cat]

Anyone who plants a pair of horns on Chase freaking Utley is a national treasure 

[whytev]

But we all know Werth will claim his position.  (Well, maybe not. Maybe he'll take a seat for the team's sake.  )

Werth will play RF.

[whytev]

His future would no doubt be in the AL as mostly a DH that from time to time fills in LF.  I think if we win a World Series he rides off into the sunset, but if not I could see him seeking a 2-year deal in the AL to close his career.

I wouldn't mind giving him 2 million bucks to take the Heisey/Raburn role over.

[CoryTheFormerExposFan]

If they have the same OPS, then you go with the better player. Who is Kendrick because he runs better and plays better defense.

The better player gets to start. And it's Kendrick. Particularly when Kendrick is healthy and Werth isn't.

Unless there is a new injury/setback, health isn't going to be a factor by the postseason.  Jayson is fine, there has been zero reason to rush him back so they have let the old man take this long mid-season sabatical and return in enough time to get his timing back and be ready for the postseason.  Right now you are sky high on Howie because he just had a walk off and his BA is super inflated due to a crazy BABIP.  Strictly between the lines you can argue either guy, but we all know it's going to be Werth in the lineup. 

[Slateman]

Unless there is a new injury/setback, health isn't going to be a factor by the postseason.  Jayson is fine, there has been zero reason to rush him back so they have let the old man take this long mid-season sabatical and return in enough time to get his timing back and be ready for the postseason.  Right now you are sky high on Howie because he just had a walk off and his BA is super inflated due to a crazy BABIP.  Strictly between the lines you can argue either guy, but we all know it's going to be Werth in the lineup. 

He's so fine that him doing running is a news report.

I'm sky high on Howie because he's hitting. The same can not be said of Werth.

Of course we all know it's going to be Werth. And when he goes 1 for 17 in the two hole, because he missed three months of baseball and has no timing, it will be comforting to know that he's a team leader.