Author Topic: What to trade?  (Read 21926 times)

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Offline tzinc

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What to trade?
« Topic Start: July 11, 2017, 09:25:04 AM »
yes a proven Closer
and BP depth obviously

but this team has 2 starters with over 5 era
that is worrisome as is Stras injury history

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #1: July 11, 2017, 09:27:52 AM »
you don't need 5 starters in the playoffs and there isn't really  a divisional race- trading for a starter would be pointless

Offline Ray D

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #2: July 11, 2017, 09:33:48 AM »
you don't need 5 starters in the playoffs and there isn't really  a divisional race- trading for a starter would be pointless
I think the point is, do we have a legitimate #4.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #3: July 11, 2017, 09:39:28 AM »
I think the point is, do we have a legitimate #4.

trading for that would be a misuse of assets that should go to the bullpen- I'd rather have a series where Scherzer has to pitch twice than watch the bullpen blow four games in a row

Offline Slateman

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #4: July 11, 2017, 09:40:26 AM »
you don't need 5 starters in the playoffs and there isn't really  a divisional race- trading for a starter would be pointless
Agreed.

I think the point is, do we have a legitimate #4.
We don't need one. Neither one is relevant in the playoffs.

The number 1, 2, and 3 needs of this team are quality bullpen arms. Unless there is a season ending injury to a major hitter (Rendon, Harper, or Murphy), all this team needs is a crap ton of bullpen help

Offline Ray D

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #5: July 11, 2017, 09:55:44 AM »
trading for that would be a misuse of assets that should go to the bullpen-
Absolutely.  I agree.  Just saying, #4 starter is a need.  It's not a need that we can afford to address.

Offline Slateman

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #6: July 11, 2017, 10:07:24 AM »
Absolutely.  I agree.  Just saying, #4 starter is a need.  It's not a need that we can afford to address.

The Royals won a WS with a #4 starter with an ERA of 4.76 and to to another WS with Jeremy freaking Guthrie. The Giants won in 2014 with three starters having an ERA over 4. They won again with two of their starters posting 5.18 and 4.15 ERAs, respectively. Red Sox won in 2013 with a starter with a 4.13 ERA and another with an ERA of 4.04

A number 4 starter is not a need. Particularly when your bullpen won't get you to a Game 4.

Offline Truconfidence

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #7: July 11, 2017, 10:07:59 AM »
trading for that would be a misuse of assets that should go to the bullpen- I'd rather have a series where Scherzer has to pitch twice than watch the bullpen blow four games in a row
this. Unless its someone like Sonny Gray who will be here for awhile.

Offline Ray D

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #8: July 11, 2017, 10:08:28 AM »
Let's be clear though. You DO need a fourth starter even for a five game series. (Unless you want #1 to pitch game four on short rest, which I don't, because you  don't want to stress #1 so early in the playoffs. A pitcher can be 100% effective on short rest; the effect of the short rest comes the next start.)  But the point is, you don't really need to win game 4, if #1, #2, and #3 are doing their job (or for that matter just #1 and #2).

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #9: July 11, 2017, 10:08:45 AM »
Absolutely.  I agree.  Just saying, #4 starter is a need.  It's not a need that we can afford to address.

There's a greater chance of Roark rebounding to be a functional #4 starter than there is of acquiring a #4 starter at any reasonable cost. 

The only way getting a starter makes sense is if it somehow also addresses the bullpen.  Roark's results in the bullpen have been mixed (at best, including in the playoffs) and if Ross' issues are injury-related then he's either going to be forced to the pen anyway or the unpredictable nature of bullpen work would just make it worse - depending on what's actually wrong.

Offline Slateman

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #10: July 11, 2017, 10:12:57 AM »
Let's be clear though. You DO need a fourth starter even for a five game series. (Unless you want #1 to pitch game four on short rest, which I don't, because you  don't want to stress #1 so early in the playoffs. A pitcher can be 100% effective on short rest; the effect of the short rest comes the next start.)  But the point is, you don't really need to win game 4, if #1, #2, and #3 are doing their job (or for that matter just #1 and #2).
You're confusing need to have a number 4 starter and need to have someone fresh start the 4th game.

It does not matter who our number 4 starter is in the playoffs. There is no way we are going to trade for anyone that is worth a damn and fix the bullpen. Furthermore, upgrading the people who will pitch at least three innings every game is vastly more important than upgrading someone who will pitch 2-4 innings in one game. You can win a WS with a garbage number 4 starter. This is not a need for the Washington Nationals.

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #11: July 11, 2017, 12:16:15 PM »
Trade for dee Gordon, put him at 2B, put Murph in left for the rest of the year and long term

Offline monkeyhit

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #12: July 11, 2017, 01:07:39 PM »
Need 3 quality BP arms, but we have nothing in our system to get them.

Robles and Soto (future starters after Harper and Weth hit the road). Untouchable.

Fedde  don't think anybody wants him, but if they do, make the deal
Kieboom   see above

Rizzo can't draft, but at least he got rid of his Giolito mistake. Can't blame him for Eaton's injury.

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #13: July 11, 2017, 01:15:39 PM »
A good bullpen arm. And a starter. Preferably Sonny Gray. Then Joe Ross can go to the pen and be joined there by Roark at playoff time. It will be a long second half if they don't get another starter. And if they do t get Gray probably the Cubs will.

Offline NatsAllThe Way

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #14: July 11, 2017, 01:38:15 PM »
Need 3 quality BP arms, but we have nothing in our system to get them.

Robles and Soto (future starters after Harper and Weth hit the road). Untouchable.

Fedde  don't think anybody wants him, but if they do, make the deal
Kieboom   see above

Rizzo can't draft, but at least he got rid of his Giolito mistake. Can't blame him for Eaton's injury.

You can blame him for Eaton being a National when he got injured if you wanted to.   :'(

Offline Slateman

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #15: July 11, 2017, 02:20:55 PM »
Need 3 quality BP arms, but we have nothing in our system to get them.

Robles and Soto (future starters after Harper and Weth hit the road). Untouchable.

Fedde  don't think anybody wants him, but if they do, make the deal
Kieboom   see above

Rizzo can't draft, but at least he got rid of his Giolito mistake. Can't blame him for Eaton's injury.

Robles and Soto aren't untouchable. No one is untouchable when you're looking at the last pieces of a WS team. And if you really think that Harper is gone and you're not willing to trade for the pieces to get a WS while he's here, then you may as well deal him and Murphy now. Full rebuild. Robles won't be a starter until 2019 at the earliest, probably 2020. Soto will take just as long.

Teams will be interested in Fedde. I think he's somewhat overrated by people here, but he has value. As will Keiboom.

But y'all with this untouchable nonsense has got to stop. You were the ones telling me that Harper was untouchable when I wanted to trade him for Boaegerts, Betts, and Swihart.

Offline monkeyhit

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #16: July 11, 2017, 04:43:22 PM »
Robles and Soto aren't untouchable. No one is untouchable when you're looking at the last pieces of a WS team. And if you really think that Harper is gone and you're not willing to trade for the pieces to get a WS while he's here, then you may as well deal him and Murphy now. Full rebuild. Robles won't be a starter until 2019 at the earliest, probably 2020. Soto will take just as long.

Teams will be interested in Fedde. I think he's somewhat overrated by people here, but he has value. As will Keiboom.

But y'all with this untouchable nonsense has got to stop. You were the ones telling me that Harper was untouchable when I wanted to trade him for Boaegerts, Betts, and Swihart.

But you don't know if they are close to the "last pieces of a WS team." Nobody does.
Personally, I don't think a closer and set-up guy gets them past National League teams like the Dodgers, Arizona, Colorado or even Chicago. It would help, but these teams are solid too and might trade to get even better. Let's say Washington DID put out those other teams; are they going to defeat Houston with that lineup of theirs, or even the winner of the AL East if they happen to knock off the Astros? It's a hard grind when you have already lost your two leadoff catalysts and now have trouble beating Atlanta. Meanwhile, Roark had lost something and Strasburg is a weather-dependent flower. That's why I don't think you give up Robles and Soto for the closer and set-up guy; your system would be empty. Finally, I don't value Harper all that much or think that we HAVE to go for it while we have him. In fact, there's your BP answer, chewing his fingernails in RF.

Offline Slateman

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #17: July 11, 2017, 05:08:29 PM »
But you don't know if they are close to the "last pieces of a WS team." Nobody does.
Personally, I don't think a closer and set-up guy gets them past National League teams like the Dodgers, Arizona, Colorado or even Chicago. It would help, but these teams are solid too and might trade to get even better. Let's say Washington DID put out those other teams; are they going to defeat Houston with that lineup of theirs, or even the winner of the AL East if they happen to knock off the Astros? It's a hard grind when you have already lost your two leadoff catalysts and now have trouble beating Atlanta. Meanwhile, Roark had lost something and Strasburg is a weather-dependent flower. That's why I don't think you give up Robles and Soto for the closer and set-up guy; your system would be empty. Finally, I don't value Harper all that much or think that we HAVE to go for it while we have him. In fact, there's your BP answer, chewing his fingernails in RF.

We do know. This team is never going to be better than it is now. At least, not for a while.

It's not just going for it now while we have Harper, it's going for it now, while we have Harper, and Werth,and Murphy, and Zimmerman is healthy/productive, and Strasburg is healthy and we get Turned back, and Scherzer is still productive.

In two years this team isn't going to have those things and the division is only going to get more competitive. This is the window. This is what we endured 100 loss seasons and a crappy RFK stadium for. If we're trading Harper, it's for young prospects to reload.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #18: July 11, 2017, 05:18:41 PM »
Assuming Turner comes back in August, and either Werth or Taylor is reasonably healthy, then this team has the best line up in the NL, to go with two Cy Young-level starters and a respectable #3.  That's pretty loaded.  I don't think it is far-fetched at all to assume the position players will not be a problem in the playoffs.  This team was not shut out until this past weekend.  You are hard-pressed to find a more productive 3-6 hitters.  Even if you discount RZ some, adding back Turner to go with Goodwin (or Werth) gives the line up solid tablesetters.  There really is one major weakness, and that is the bullpen.  While I disagree with Slate on giving Robles for any closer not a contender (you aren't getting Chapman, Kimbrel, or Jansen), I would probably go as good as Soto (#12 BP midseason but mid-90s in BA's list) and certainly Stevenson / Kieboom in the right deal. 

You can probably expect Dombrowski to be looking for a setup guy to get to Kimbrel, and Texas has needs if they want to be in the WC hunt, but, short of that, the demand I think will not be too heavy from other teams.

Offline dshawg77

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #19: July 11, 2017, 08:37:30 PM »
We should trade for this guy Sale..oh wait..we refused to give up Robles.

Offline Truconfidence

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #20: July 12, 2017, 12:29:49 AM »
We should trade for this guy Sale..oh wait..we refused to give up Robles.
no he was in that trade, they wanted Trea Turner, Robles and Giolito. we offered Robles, Giolito, Lopez and Dunning.

Offline mimontero88

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #21: July 12, 2017, 08:20:10 AM »
Anyone even considering the idea that a significant move for anything other than bullpen help could be beneficial is out of their mind.  This year, this topic should just be locked.  It's obvious what we need to do with the resources we have.

Offline SkinsNatFan21RIP

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #22: July 12, 2017, 10:14:55 AM »
We should trade for this guy Sale..oh wait..we refused to give up Robles.

Chris Sale is a tremendous pitcher but when they asked for Trea to be included in the trade it pretty much ended those talks.

Offline Count Walewski

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #23: July 12, 2017, 11:48:08 AM »
Am I crazy in thinking that we could use another bench player? Obviously bullpen is need #1.

Offline Glockypoo

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #24: July 12, 2017, 12:20:49 PM »
no he was in that trade, they wanted Trea Turner, Robles and Giolito. we offered Robles, Giolito, Lopez and Dunning.

Stupid Yoan Moncada messed everything up.

Still think the Nats offer (the one without Trea) was every bit as good as what the Red Sox gave up.