Author Topic: Official MASN Cup thread  (Read 5559 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline MarquisDeSade

  • Posts: 15101
  • Captain Sadness
Re: Official MASN Cup thread
« Reply #50: May 09, 2017, 12:46:03 PM »
As I just noted, I'm not the one who brought up the issue, and thanks for turning a general statement into an absolute.

Posts like this are why I'm sad I never got to meet PB69 in person before we blew town. 

Offline _sturt_

  • Posts: 570
  • "Le Grande Orange"...Colt 45/Astro/Expo(Nat) Great
Re: Official MASN Cup thread
« Reply #51: May 09, 2017, 01:04:37 PM »
"The Lost Generation" of DC area fans who grew up with the O's and won't let go, well, they will eventually die. Not soon enough for me, but eventually, and they are being replaced by young Nats fans who are growing up with the team.

Cities that are on the plus side of the standard deviation in terms of non-natives moving in have a bigger problem with this, and the DC area has such a regular turnover in employee base (due in part to the nature of being a center of a form of government that embraces turnover)... I'm not as bullish on that conclusion.

But there is salvation in regional TV rights... and as posted a few weeks ago, under a different thread, the fields almost have to be ripening to the South if the Nats can just get over the hump and win a WS...



But I'd also caution, nothing is a given. As the Houston TX area fans of the Astros and the Texans know too well... if you live around here, its jaw-dropping how you can live an hour from Reliant Stadium but see Cowboys flags flying all over the place. Rangers don't have it as good as the Cowboys, but their fan base is still amazingly visible given that Dallas is ~250 miles away.

Offline Baseball is Life

  • Posts: 20393
  • Proud member of the Sunshine Squad.
Re: Official MASN Cup thread
« Reply #52: May 09, 2017, 01:18:32 PM »
Cities that are on the plus side of the standard deviation in terms of non-natives moving in have a bigger problem with this, and the DC area has such a regular turnover in employee base (due in part to the nature of being a center of a form of government that embraces turnover)... I'm not as bullish on that conclusion.

But there is salvation in regional TV rights... and as posted a few weeks ago, under a different thread, the fields almost have to be ripening to the South if the Nats can just get over the hump and win a WS...

(Image removed from quote.)

But I'd also caution, nothing is a given. As the Houston TX area fans of the Astros and the Texans know too well... if you live around here, its jaw-dropping how you can live an hour from Reliant Stadium but see Cowboys flags flying all over the place. Rangers don't have it as good as the Cowboys, but their fan base is still amazingly visible given that Dallas is ~250 miles away.

So if DC is such a transient town, how come the Redskins have one of the most loyal fans in sports?


Offline _sturt_

  • Posts: 570
  • "Le Grande Orange"...Colt 45/Astro/Expo(Nat) Great
Re: Official MASN Cup thread
« Reply #53: May 09, 2017, 01:22:58 PM »
So if DC is such a transient town, how come the Redskins have one of the most loyal fans in sports?

Fair question, but not sure the answer isn't as simple as it gets... they have both (a) stability over many decades, and (b) success, by virtue of having won some championships within the lifetimes of many of their fans.

Offline GburgNatsFan

  • Posts: 22277
  • Let's drink a few for Mathguy.
Re: Official MASN Cup thread
« Reply #54: May 09, 2017, 01:39:32 PM »
There are a shocking number of Ravens flags/stickers/jerseys in Maryland these days. Their fan base is not what it once was. Because they are a tire fire in recent years.

So if DC is such a transient town, how come the Redskins have one of the most loyal fans in sports?

Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

  • Posts: 17647
  • babble on
Re: Official MASN Cup thread
« Reply #55: May 09, 2017, 01:46:39 PM »
I remember when one really didn't see Ravens jerseys/stickers/flags until you were basically in Baltimore.  Now you see quite a few of them inside the DC beltway. 

Offline HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 21606
Re: Official MASN Cup thread
« Reply #56: May 09, 2017, 01:48:40 PM »
Not surprising, they're a model franchise, and the reddkins are the opposite with a detestable owner and a miserable stadium experience

Offline Baseball is Life

  • Posts: 20393
  • Proud member of the Sunshine Squad.
Re: Official MASN Cup thread
« Reply #57: May 09, 2017, 01:48:59 PM »
Fair question, but not sure the answer isn't as simple as it gets... they have both (a) stability over many decades, and (b) success, by virtue of having won some championships within the lifetimes of many of their fans.

Exactly. Stability and success are the answer. Transient town bs be damned.

Offline _sturt_

  • Posts: 570
  • "Le Grande Orange"...Colt 45/Astro/Expo(Nat) Great
Re: Official MASN Cup thread
« Reply #58: May 09, 2017, 01:52:13 PM »
Exactly. Stability and success are the answer. Transient town bs be damned.

I think I might have been misunderstood to say it can't happen. Not at all. I said...

Quote
Cities that are on the plus side of the standard deviation in terms of non-natives moving in have a bigger problem with this, and the DC area has such a regular turnover in employee base (due in part to the nature of being a center of a form of government that embraces turnover)... I'm not as bullish on that conclusion.

So, it's more difficult. But not at all impossible. Hence the phrase, "not as bullish." That's all I'm saying.

Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

  • Posts: 17647
  • babble on
Re: Official MASN Cup thread
« Reply #59: May 09, 2017, 01:52:54 PM »
Horrible.  I'm never going back there.  Man U/Barca is going to be the biggest clusterfreak since Dunkirk.
miserable stadium experience

Offline Baseball is Life

  • Posts: 20393
  • Proud member of the Sunshine Squad.
Re: Official MASN Cup thread
« Reply #60: May 09, 2017, 01:53:15 PM »
There are a shocking number of Ravens flags/stickers/jerseys in Maryland these days. Their fan base is not what it once was. Because they are a tire fire in recent years.


But one playoff run by the Skins and the town goes crazy for them. Not what it once was, true. People forget the Skins were the only game in town after the Senators left in 1971 and before the Caps (first year 1974) and Bullets (1973) got established.

Offline PowerBoater69

  • Posts: 14265
    • Twitter
Re: Official MASN Cup thread
« Reply #61: May 09, 2017, 01:56:10 PM »
Posts like this are why I'm sad I never got to meet PB69 in person before we blew town. 
I don't believe PB69 said that Nats fans are the only ones around MLB who use cellphones during games or leave early.

:-)

Offline Baseball is Life

  • Posts: 20393
  • Proud member of the Sunshine Squad.
Re: Official MASN Cup thread
« Reply #62: May 09, 2017, 01:57:01 PM »
I think I might have been misunderstood to say it can't happen. Not at all. I said...

So, it's more difficult. But not at all impossible. Hence the phrase, "not as bullish." That's all I'm saying.

I got you. I just think the transient thing is overrated. I think I read one time that only 4K jobs actually change with presidential administrations when the party switches like this year. The DC metro area is like 6 million people and I bet the vast majority were born here.  Of course, I have no data to back that up.

Offline Monarch

  • Posts: 650
Re: Official MASN Cup thread
« Reply #63: May 09, 2017, 01:57:23 PM »
Horrible.  I'm never going back there.  Man U/Barca is going to be the biggest clusterfreak since Dunkirk.

Last time I went to that horrible piece of crud place was when team USA played Brazil. 2012 I think. Total clusterfreak. That Man U game is going to be worse I bet.

Offline Baseball is Life

  • Posts: 20393
  • Proud member of the Sunshine Squad.
Re: Official MASN Cup thread
« Reply #64: May 09, 2017, 02:00:27 PM »
Last time I went to FedEx is when the Skins played on Monday night about 4 years ago or and the place was overrun by Stillers fans. And really drunk ones at that since they had been drinking all day. People were barfing, fighting, cussing, and stumbling in the concourses, bathrooms, parking lots, etc. Totally a gross experience. I have not been back since.

Offline _sturt_

  • Posts: 570
  • "Le Grande Orange"...Colt 45/Astro/Expo(Nat) Great
Re: Official MASN Cup thread
« Reply #65: May 09, 2017, 02:19:53 PM »
I got you. I just think the transient thing is overrated. I think I read one time that only 4K jobs actually change with presidential administrations when the party switches like this year. The DC metro area is like 6 million people and I bet the vast majority were born here.  Of course, I have no data to back that up.

My first inclination... also have no data to back it up... is that 4K is only the, maybe, federal payroll jobs that change within, maybe, a 12 month period... so many contractors that are paid for goods and services but not on the official payroll, and so many ripple effects that occur beyond 12 months.

But again, it's not at all insurmountable... but it is a dynamic that no other city faces quite like Washington does, and an inherently chronic one.

Offline vernon337

  • Posts: 358
Re: Official MASN Cup thread
« Reply #66: May 09, 2017, 04:28:26 PM »
On the one hand, you can add the military to that transient population, and in Virginia, that's huge.

On the other hand, I live in Fairfax County, and it seems like every third car has a Nationals sticker or license plate or something along those lines.  And I see far more Nationals ballcaps than Redskins' ones.  Just let the Nationals get to a World Series, and they will rule the roost.  Even the most loyal of Redskins fans can't stand Snyder.  Wizards/Caps could also get very popular if they make it into their finals, but I think the Nats are best positioned.  When I took my grandkids to see the Nationals, they were hooked.  And how many more opportunities to see a Nats game live than to see any of the other teams in the area?

Online Natsinpwc

  • Posts: 25672
Re: Official MASN Cup thread
« Reply #67: May 09, 2017, 04:47:46 PM »
I got you. I just think the transient thing is overrated. I think I read one time that only 4K jobs actually change with presidential administrations when the party switches like this year. The DC metro area is like 6 million people and I bet the vast majority were born here.  Of course, I have no data to back that up.
Those 4K are probably the political positions. However you also still have many federal employees hired here from other areas and those that transfer to the DC area from field offices. The grade structure here is higher so those who want to get ahead often end up here. And then lots of lobbyists and non profit employees who end up in our area.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 39383
  • Platoon - not just a movie, a baseball obsession
Re: Official MASN Cup thread
« Reply #68: May 09, 2017, 05:00:03 PM »
Transient is probably the wrong test.  Non-native is probably the better test.  I would not call myself a transient anymore (22 years in DC), but I'm definitely non-native.  For the non-natives, if you are a sport fan, then very likely that started by following your old home town teams.  It takes a while to break down those loyalties.  Raising kids and wanting to root for the local team is one way.  Your old team stinking and the locals being interesting is another. 

Offline HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 21606
Re: Official MASN Cup thread
« Reply #69: May 09, 2017, 05:05:18 PM »
Transient is probably the wrong test.  Non-native is probably the better test.  I would not call myself a transient anymore (22 years in DC), but I'm definitely non-native.  For the non-natives, if you are a sport fan, then very likely that started by following your old home town teams.  It takes a while to break down those loyalties.  Raising kids and wanting to root for the local team is one way.  Your old team stinking and the locals being interesting is another. 

How many major cities have a large percent of non- native professionals? I'm guessing the numbers are similar for most

Offline bluestreak

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 11259
Re: Official MASN Cup thread
« Reply #70: May 09, 2017, 05:19:15 PM »
How many major cities have a large percent of non- native professionals? I'm guessing the numbers are similar for most

There is a reason towns like Pittsburgh and Detroit have the most loyal sports fans. People move to and from there a lot less than cities like DC or San Diego or Phoenix.
 

Offline _sturt_

  • Posts: 570
  • "Le Grande Orange"...Colt 45/Astro/Expo(Nat) Great
Re: Official MASN Cup thread
« Reply #71: May 09, 2017, 05:29:58 PM »
Some cities have substantially more than others, I think is the point. But again, it's just an additional challenge imo and doesn't prevent from growing the fan base.

Offline Baseball is Life

  • Posts: 20393
  • Proud member of the Sunshine Squad.
Re: Official MASN Cup thread
« Reply #72: May 09, 2017, 05:32:19 PM »
Those 4K are probably the political positions. However you also still have many federal employees hired here from other areas and those that transfer to the DC area from field offices. The grade structure here is higher so those who want to get ahead often end up here. And then lots of lobbyists and non profit employees who end up in our area.

All true. But I think the numbers are still a minority (complete mind fact here) and those that move here get converted. Like JCA said, if you have kids here who grow up Nats fans, that helps, or you at least become a dual loyalty fan.

My real point here is those in the DC area no longer have a reason to be O's fans. Those who developed that loyalty who grew up here when no team was in town are a bubble that will burst with time. Older fans never adopted the O's for the most part and the younger fans are growing up with the Nats. It's people in between that are "The Lost Generation."

Offline _sturt_

  • Posts: 570
  • "Le Grande Orange"...Colt 45/Astro/Expo(Nat) Great
Re: Official MASN Cup thread
« Reply #73: May 09, 2017, 05:36:31 PM »
As my sig asserts... no city more disregarded by corporate MLB than ours... I suppose it made it so much easier to piss off a fan base when their allegiances are divided and/or their roots in the area aren't all that deep. True?

Online Natsinpwc

  • Posts: 25672
Re: Official MASN Cup thread
« Reply #74: May 09, 2017, 05:36:39 PM »
All true. But I think the numbers are still a minority (complete mind fact here) and those that move here get converted. Like JCA said, if you have kids here who grow up Nats fans, that helps, or you at least become a dual loyalty fan.

My real point here is those in the DC area no longer have a reason to be O's fans. Those who developed that loyalty who grew up here when no team was in town are a bubble that will burst with time. Older fans never adopted the O's for the most part and the younger fans are growing up with the Nats. It's people in between that are "The Lost Generation."
I think it's both the transplants and not having a team.  Or the BLOS.