Author Topic: 2017 bullpen watch  (Read 52811 times)

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Offline Trea Burner

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Re: 2017 bullpen watch
« Reply #50: April 07, 2017, 10:26:21 AM »
It has yet to be determined if the Nationals have a real closer. But Dusty and Rizzo have been adamant that Treinen is the closer and that they are not going closer by committee. Treat him like it then. If he is available to pitch, and it's a save situation, the 9th inning is his. Always. No matter who is coming up, you go with your closer. Matchups are for the 6th and 7th innings. Dusty already sucks at this, don't make him do it in the 8th and 9th.

If he's your closer, and it's a save situation, and he's not available due to work load, that's fine too. Stick with that. But don't bring in someone thinking they can close out the game and then go to the guy you couldn't bring in to the game in the first place due to work load.

Exactly.

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: 2017 bullpen watch
« Reply #51: April 07, 2017, 11:33:20 AM »
It has yet to be determined if the Nationals have a real closer. But Dusty and Rizzo have been adamant that Treinen is the closer and that they are not going closer by committee. Treat him like it then. If he is available to pitch, and it's a save situation, the 9th inning is his. Always. No matter who is coming up, you go with your closer. Matchups are for the 6th and 7th innings. Dusty already sucks at this, don't make him do it in the 8th and 9th.

If he's your closer, and it's a save situation, and he's not available due to work load, that's fine too. Stick with that. But don't bring in someone thinking they can close out the game and then go to the guy you couldn't bring in to the game in the first place due to work load.
There is nothing wrong with trying out different guys and in different situations--you all are still hung up on this 9th inning guy must only pitch the 9th inning, etc.

Offline Slateman

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Re: 2017 bullpen watch
« Reply #52: April 07, 2017, 11:56:19 AM »
There is nothing wrong with trying out different guys and in different situations--you all are still hung up on this 9th inning guy must only pitch the 9th inning, etc.
Yes, yes there is. That's why you name a closer. To be the 9th inning guy. That is what everything is set up on for the rest of the game. Get it to the ninth and then pack up and leave. That's why closers get big money. That's why it's called out as a position and not just another reliever.

Offline Ray D

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Re: 2017 bullpen watch
« Reply #53: April 07, 2017, 12:39:03 PM »
Was Mariano Rivera a "real" closer?   Well the Yankees usually did not pitch him three games in a row. That's all that was about.

Online bluestreak

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Re: 2017 bullpen watch
« Reply #54: April 07, 2017, 12:40:25 PM »
Didn't what the Indians do with Miller last year tell us that maybe there are other ways to do it than using a traditional closer. Analytics also show that rigidly using your best picther only in the 9th doesn't make sense. Sadly, I think Dusty will eventually settle on traditional bullpen roles, even though I think this bullpen is suited for a non traditional situationally based approach.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: 2017 bullpen watch
« Reply #55: April 07, 2017, 12:53:05 PM »
Didn't what the Indians do with Miller last year tell us that maybe there are other ways to do it than using a traditional closer. Analytics also show that rigidly using your best picther only in the 9th doesn't make sense. Sadly, I think Dusty will eventually settle on traditional bullpen roles, even though I think this bullpen is suited for a non traditional situationally based approach.

This is true, but what the Indians did with Miller probably won't work across a 6-month season. There are teams (like NYY) that employ the "use your best guy in the tough spot" with a set-up man (Betances), but for the most part pitchers like to know their roles and what to expect on a daily basis for 6 months. That's probably the biggest hold-up in doing a true committee approach, though I agree that this team and setup would definitely benefit from that.

Offline Truconfidence

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Re: 2017 bullpen watch
« Reply #56: April 07, 2017, 01:06:17 PM »
And there is the first W the half ass constructed bullpen wastes. Get used to it; all the blown saves might cost them a playoff spot.
nah i put that 1 on Dusty.

Online welch

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Re: 2017 bullpen watch
« Reply #57: April 07, 2017, 01:51:57 PM »
Was Glover unavailable last night?

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: 2017 bullpen watch
« Reply #58: April 07, 2017, 01:58:01 PM »
Was Glover unavailable last night?
He pitched the 7th.


Offline mitlen

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Re: 2017 bullpen watch
« Reply #59: April 07, 2017, 02:00:55 PM »
Was Glover unavailable last night?

Murph and Wieters tried to sabotage his outing but he came out clean.

Online welch

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Re: 2017 bullpen watch
« Reply #60: April 07, 2017, 03:21:53 PM »
Murph and Wieters tried to sabotage his outing but he came out clean.

Ah...I got back late from the rain-delay. Hoped the umpires would call the game.

Offline tzinc

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Re: 2017 bullpen watch
« Reply #61: April 07, 2017, 10:08:14 PM »
A closer is going to cost them more now going to cost them the farm... the future --- all it would have cost in the offseason was money. The owners have money lots and lots of it.  They could have easily outbid teams for a closer. Last year it was proven without a doubt what a proven quality closer does for a team.

How do you make trades, sign FAs, and build for a season WITHOUT A PROVEN QUALITY CLOSER being obtained somewhere in there.

The fact there is no closer means the BP has 1 extra lousy pitcher in it.
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Online imref

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Re: 2017 bullpen watch
« Reply #62: April 07, 2017, 11:03:00 PM »
Well, being the ever eternal optimist, i'll say 'it's early.'  Remember, Melancon has an ERA of 27.00 right now.  (Of course Holland and Davis are pitching lights-out so far).

The nice thing about the pen, as it's structured now, is that we've got some options.  If Treinen can't cut it, we have Kelley.  And ultimately we probably get to Koda before the year is out.

One thing I am worried about already with Treinan is over-use, he's now pitched in all four games including three in a row.  That seems excessive.

How long before Chapman is available?

Offline whytev

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Re: 2017 bullpen watch
« Reply #63: April 08, 2017, 03:12:16 AM »
Not a  night. Not sure why Solis started  9th. Either Treinen is good to pitch, or he's not. Either he is the closer or not. You don't mix and match in the 9th when your closer is ready to go. That's the whole point of having a closer.

*sigh* Why is Dusty the manager still? He will not win a playoff series ever again.

Treinen wasn't hot in time.

Offline aspenbubba

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Re: 2017 bullpen watch
« Reply #64: April 08, 2017, 08:32:11 AM »
Here are my thoughts on the status of the BP as constructed by Rizzo on the way to an 84 win season. Yes, it is early but the blown "saves" the past two games have derailed any hopes of a great season. Mods may merge this with the existing threads BP watch and Closer thread if compelled but it is a prediction thread.

Treinen: You ain't the man. I thought you were going to end up the closer in 2015 and 2016 and stated that in the seasons prediction threads. I was mistaken. Rizzo will be forced to sell the farm at the trade deadline to acquire a real closer ( Betances?). You will not be replaced as soon as members of WNFF would like because Baker is very supportive of the psyches of his players and sticks with them way too long. Until then , Baker will be forced to go with Closer BY Committee ( hereafter referred to as CBC). You will be a good set -up man in the 7th and 8th and to your credit you don't have the "deer in the headlights" look that Hanrahan possessed while waiting to appear in a game. You do remind me of the "Chief" who could be very ,very good or very bad. 

Kelley: Your ERA will soar to over 4.0 as you will be part of the CBC.

Solis: They will make you a "Loogy"as you will replace Perez in that role ,

Perez: The only reason you are on the team is Rizzo doesn't want to admit that he made a 4 Mil mistake even if it is someone else's money. You will be gone by the ASB.

Romero: The reincarnation of Henry Rodriguez 2.0. You will be gone by Memorial Day.

Glover: Wait your turn. Much to the FO's credit is they don't want to throw you to the wolves. You have the stuff but more importantly you possess the attitude and have shown it the last two nights. You will earn a few saves this season.

Blanton: There was a reason that the Dodgers didn't offer you the money that the Nat's did after your good season with them. I just don't know why? You will also get a few opportunities to close this season.

So Perez and Romero are gone and who do we replace them with. Possibly Guthrie (depending on his game today and his role going forward ) and I believe that the Nat's will adopt the Cardinals model of promoting pitchers regardless of their roles as starters or relievers to work out of the BP like they did with Trevor Rosenthal. That means we will see Fedde ,Voth and AJ Cole ( who should never start a game for the Nats again) as BP replacements.

I am officially resigning from the S.S.S. and I am formally  announcing my challenge to SF 882 as the chairman of the Doom and Gloom Squad.

Offline Slateman

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Re: 2017 bullpen watch
« Reply #65: April 08, 2017, 11:00:23 AM »
Treinen wasn't hot in time.

This is the excuse. Not a reason.

Online imref

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Re: 2017 bullpen watch
« Reply #66: April 08, 2017, 12:13:30 PM »
Treinen wasn't hot in time.

It was also his fourth game already. Maybe dusty didn't want to use triennial unless absolutely necessary? 

Offline ajcartwright

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Re: 2017 bullpen watch
« Reply #67: April 08, 2017, 03:59:10 PM »
word on the street is
the NATS bullpen can be had/bad
Drew Storen says hi

Offline whytev

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Re: 2017 bullpen watch
« Reply #68: April 08, 2017, 04:40:43 PM »
This is the excuse. Not a reason.

The game was tied. Zimmerman's hit was ruled a homer, at which point it wasn't tied and Treinen started throwing. The inning ended very quickly afterward. If you're advocating for traditional closer use, you're not advocating for Treinen to be getting hot during a tie game.

Offline Slateman

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Re: 2017 bullpen watch
« Reply #69: April 08, 2017, 04:55:26 PM »
The game was tied. Zimmerman's hit was ruled a homer, at which point it wasn't tied and Treinen started throwing. The inning ended very quickly afterward. If you're advocating for traditional closer use, you're not advocating for Treinen to be getting hot during a tie game.

That's part of being a closer. Getting up and ready quickly. And if he and the bullpen coach are doing their jobs, they're getting loose with armbands and an active warm-up in the 7th or 8th anyway.

Offline dcpatti

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Re: 2017 bullpen watch
« Reply #70: April 08, 2017, 07:10:06 PM »
Betances just blew the Yankees lead over the Orioles in the 7th inning.

Offline Slateman

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Re: 2017 bullpen watch
« Reply #71: April 08, 2017, 09:42:26 PM »
If Rizzo bites the bullet, sells off the farm, and fixes the pen, this team will win the WS.

Offline Slateman

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Re: 2017 bullpen watch
« Reply #72: April 08, 2017, 09:43:01 PM »
Blanton might be the best pitcher in the pen

Offline Squab

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Re: 2017 bullpen watch
« Reply #73: April 08, 2017, 09:50:10 PM »
Gonna merge this with the other bullpen thread.

Offline mitlen

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Re: 2017 bullpen watch
« Reply #74: April 08, 2017, 09:51:36 PM »
Gonna merge this with the other bullpen thread.

Keeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeriste, we have two !?!?!?!