Author Topic: Wonder what the chances are that Nats replace Os in Norfolk  (Read 859 times)

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Offline _sturt_

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Not that anyone here could possibly know, but just interested in whatever conjecture there is. It makes sense at a purely geographical level, of course, that we own Virginia as a market, and thus, that the decision-makers in Norfolk would be very interested in having that conversation.

I'm further prompted to bring it up b/c I see that our agreement with Syracuse ends after next season... and so does the Os agreement with Norfolk.

Thoughts? Facts?

Offline GuyFromCO

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I doubt it. The Blo's blocked Waldorf from happening. Guessing they'd fight pretty hard to keep the Nats from getting Norfolk.

Offline NJ Ave

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I doubt it. The Blo's blocked Waldorf from happening. Guessing they'd fight pretty hard to keep the Nats from getting Norfolk.

On what basis would they be able to fight it? I believe they blocked Waldorf because it falls within their territorial rights. Norfolk does not. And MLB doesn't have a scaredycat commissioner anymore who is afraid of Angelos.

Minor league franchises transfer all the time.

Offline GuyFromCO

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On what basis would they be able to fight it? I believe they blocked Waldorf because it falls within their territorial rights. Norfolk does not. And MLB doesn't have a scaredycat commissioner anymore who is afraid of Angelos.

Minor league franchises transfer all the time.

Simple pettiness. They'd do what they could, which would be to pony up their PDC, to keep their affiliate. Just my opinion -- nothing to back that.

Offline _sturt_

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Beyond the Os, it was reported that it was still hung-up by the Eastern League and Carolina League denials regardless.

You can deny the move, but if not and once the move is approved, you can't say who can or can't decide to affiliate with each other.


Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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why would Norfolk want to switch affiliations?  They are probably closer to B-More.  Roots don't run that deep (they were Mets for years), but still.   

Offline _sturt_

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why would Norfolk want to switch affiliations?  They are probably closer to B-More.  Roots don't run that deep (they were Mets for years), but still.

I've never seen an actual PDC, let alone read one, but I would imagine that there's always financial considerations involved that would make it more appealing to link up with one club over another. Pure conjecture, but I'd think if we match whatever the O's do, we'd hold the advantage. And not to spend the Lerners' money, but too, there is some logic from a marketing angle to be a little aggressive with an offer to the Tides.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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maybe someone on the Eastern Shore can weigh in, but I sort of feel they identify more with Balmer, at least the Delaware and Maryland parts.  Delmarva is already an Os affiliate.

Offline Natsinpwc

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maybe someone on the Eastern Shore can weigh in, but I sort of feel they identify more with Balmer, at least the Delaware and Maryland parts.  Delmarva is already an Os affiliate.
I have a friend who grew up there. His family was most upset when the Mets pulled out.

Offline comish4lif

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The chances are as close to zero as you can get.

Maryland Baseball Holding LLC, which owns the Tides, also owns two other Orioles-affiliated minor-league clubs, the Bowie Baysox and the Frederick Keys.

If the owner of the Tides is in the business of Orioles Baseball, there's nothing the Nats can do about it.

Offline _sturt_

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While your information is correct, there's more information that seems pertinent, and probably demonstrates the conclusion to be an over-reach.

The holding company is owned by one man, Ken Young... who, yes, has a strong professional association with the Norfolk area, but Baltimore is but one of several cities in which he has held business interests. His background is as a food service executive, and he's been affiliated with related ventures in Kentucky, Florida, Louisiana, and Texas. Notably, too, he not only owns the Bowie, Frederick and Norfolk franchises, but also the Brewers' affiliate in Biloxi, MS and the Rockies' affiliate in Albuquerque, NM. In 2011, he was reported to have put the Keys up for sale. While he did have some specific Orioles-related ventures at one time connected to his food service business, the same could be said for the Astros at one time as well.

 

Offline Lintyfresh85

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As always, Richmond makes the most sense.

The Giants have no roots and it'd only make the fan base stronger.

Offline tomterp

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On what basis would they be able to fight it? I believe they blocked Waldorf because it falls within their territorial rights. Norfolk does not. And MLB doesn't have a scaredycat commissioner anymore who is afraid of Angelos.

Minor league franchises transfer all the time.

The Orioles have a league charter that defines their market territory, and it would not include So. Maryland.  At some point after the departure of the Senators in 1971 they requested permission from MLB to market themselves into the greater DC market and then argued that this was tantamount to them having essentially annexed DC and surrounds into being "their" territory.  This is all rather foggy because we've never seen the request or the original league charter to my knowledge but for sure the charter would never have included any of the surrounding counties to DC, no Va, no Southern Md. 


Offline houston-nat

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As always, Richmond makes the most sense.

The Giants have no roots and it'd only make the fan base stronger.
Yeah, I think Richmond makes more sense too.

Offline _sturt_

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Yes.

Except for the small detail, of course, that Richmond has only a AA franchise, not a AAA... and at least in the short-term, that's not likely to change. Also, fwiw, the Giants' PDC with Richmond extends to 2020 from what I've read.

Will be interesting to see if we extend our PDC with Harrisburg for just two years to 2020; if so, obviously there'd be reason to speculate the front office is hoping to become the Flying Squirrels new dance partner.

Offline ZimW1N

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I live in Norfolk so I'd be 100% down for this. Heck I'd get season tickets.

Offline Casanova

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I live in the Norfolk area as well. The thing is, most people around here aren't particularly either Nationals or Orioles fans. Once you get out of the northern counties next to D.C., you find more Yankees fans. In Hampton Roads, the Yankees, Red Sox and Braves all seem to be more popular than either the Nats or O's. The New York Times' 538 had an interactive map a couple of years back where you could find the most popular team in every city and county in America. Norfolk was 27 percent Yankees, 11 percent Red Sox and 9 percent Braves (leftovers from the TBS days I suppose). MASN has us die-hards who watch all the time, but most people like the teams that get all the national hype.


Offline _sturt_

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Yeah, here's a link to that, and it is both fascinating and concerning...

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/24/upshot/facebook-baseball-map.html#8,37.629,-77.460

I'm less pizzed about the Yankees and Red Sox than I am about the Braves. That shouldn't be. Real testimony to just how much work the Nationals have in front of them.

And then, on the glass-half-full side, how vast the opportunity is, once they begin to stake out their territory. Nats can't claim the history of the Redskins, obviously, but maybe once they win a WS, they can at least start to make some serious in-roads to something that looks more like this...



To the original topic, no doubt, there's some real good reason for making an all-out assault on gaining PDCs with Richmond and Norfolk.

Offline mitlen

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https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/24/upshot/facebook-baseball-map.html#8,37.629,-77.460



Great link  ...  thanks.      The Barves have a similar chronological advantage that the 'skins have.     Nats' in the Series is just what the doctor ordered.

Offline Casanova

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Yeah, here's a link to that, and it is both fascinating and concerning...

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/24/upshot/facebook-baseball-map.html#8,37.629,-77.460

I'm less pizzed about the Yankees and Red Sox than I am about the Braves. That shouldn't be. Real testimony to just how much work the Nationals have in front of them.

And then, on the glass-half-full side, how vast the opportunity is, once they begin to stake out their territory. Nats can't claim the history of the Redskins, obviously, but maybe once they win a WS, they can at least start to make some serious in-roads to something that looks more like this...

(Image removed from quote.)

To the original topic, no doubt, there's some real good reason for making an all-out assault on gaining PDCs with Richmond and Norfolk.

Yeah, when I first moved down here the Nationals, of course, didn't even exist. I assumed most people were either fans of the Orioles (closest team/games on TV) or the Mets (Tides had been their affiliate for more than 30 years). Of course there was a strong Braves contingent everywhere because the games were still on TBS and they had been really good for awhile, so I expected a decent following here. The Braves fans in that study were surely mostly holdovers from the TBS days, but I was shocked they were ahead of the Nationals and Orioles. I guess the Yankees (and to a lesser extent the Red Sox) have glory hunters everywhere. And as more hardcore baseball fans we probably see things different than casual fans.

Speaking of the Braves/TBS thing, one weekend back in the early 90s I drove up to Pittsburgh for the weekend to photograph a couple of Pirates-Braves games (something I did two or three times a year -- well, not always with the Braves). I always stayed in the Days Inn on Banksville Rd. because it was convenient. One morning I ran into the guy in the room next to me and he was wearing a Braves cap. We got to talking and he said "I've been a fan since 1957. I'm not one of these TBS fans!" He was proud of being a die-hard.