Author Topic: Public Policy Polling (May 2016): Only 25% of baseball fans prefer DH baseball  (Read 4160 times)

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Offline _sturt_

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Offline Vega

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Disappointing that people appear to be so predisposed to thinking that what they have observed in their community and how they've interpreted what they've see among friends and family is, on its own, enough to extrapolate what everyone else thinks and does, and thus, enough to extrapolate what's going on in the macro.

Anticipating a remark about condescension as a follow-up... um... is it more condescending to think and admit I don't know it all and to say I need more information before I can offer a stronger conclusion, or more condescending to think and say, no, I am able to provide for you, just on the basis of my personal observation, fairly precise and exceptionally strong conclusions?

If I may... just one man's opinion... but I tend to think the more humble and more rational and more grounded perspective is to be less reliant on personal (anecdotal, by definition, and largely subjective) observation.

I'm pretty sure most of the ideas you have posted to Make Baseball Great Again have been largely based on or at least heavily influenced by your personal tastes rather than an attempt to be totally objective.

Offline _sturt_

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  • "Le Grande Orange"...Colt 45/Astro/Expo(Nat) Great
I'm pretty sure most of the ideas you have posted to Make Baseball Great Again have been largely based on or at least heavily influenced by your personal tastes rather than an attempt to be totally objective.
Streeeeeeeettttttttccccccchhhhinnnnnnnnnnnnng and confounding.

If you're going for the hypocrisy angle, you'll have to do better than that

The two have nothing to do with each other.

What was posted was never presented in the first place under the premise that I'm able to divine what the world thinks about A, B or C based on my own observations.

The statements made here in this thread, though, do exactly that.

Pretentious to think one's world is everyone else's world, and such that you have an exceptional grasp on what is and what is not just because you are who you are and live where you live and know who you know. The humbler approach is to say what one has to say... that's all good and fine... but couch it in terms that you also acknowledge what you don't actually know, and perhaps even say straight-up where your assumptions might be wrong. Humbler is better because humbler is smarter... that's just how I see it... others may see it differently.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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You should hire a good whore, have one last meal at Morton's, and then drive your car directly into a wall at max speed.

Offline Vega

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Here's a question for you, underscoresturtunderscore; what is the goal of your discussions? Are you just tossing ideas out there, or are you looking to try to create a plan to Make Baseball Great Again using actual evidence and informed guesswork? (Guesswork is fine to use since there aren't tons of scientific studies out there on baseball fans' opinions.)

Offline Mathguy

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While I prefer the non-DH NL (I like to see the pitcher bat), I grew up in CT where the Yankee & Red Sox fans meet.  I haven't found any of my friends up there to be against the DH.

Offline Minty Fresh

  • Posts: 19612
  • Oh you call what you got a team?
Disappointing that people appear to be so predisposed to thinking that what they have observed in their community and how they've interpreted what they've see among friends and family is, on its own, enough to extrapolate what everyone else thinks and does, and thus, enough to extrapolate what's going on in the macro.

Anticipating a remark about condescension as a follow-up... um... is it more condescending to think and admit I don't know it all and to say I need more information before I can offer a stronger conclusion, or more condescending to think and say, no, I am able to provide for you, just on the basis of my personal observation, fairly precise and exceptionally strong conclusions?

If I may... just one man's opinion... but I tend to think the more humble and more rational and more grounded perspective is to be less reliant on personal (anecdotal, by definition, and largely subjective) observation.


You can call it extrapolation if you'd like; but when you couple it with the FACTS about ratings and attendance it becomes much more than anecdotal.

Offline Minty Fresh

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  • Oh you call what you got a team?
I'm pretty sure most of the ideas you have posted to Make Baseball Great Again have been largely based on or at least heavily influenced by your personal tastes rather than an attempt to be totally objective.

ALL OF THIS

Offline Minty Fresh

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You should hire a good whore, have one last meal at Morton's, and then drive your car directly into a wall at max speed.

I love this guy....   :lol:

Offline Minty Fresh

  • Posts: 19612
  • Oh you call what you got a team?
Streeeeeeeettttttttccccccchhhhinnnnnnnnnnnnng and confounding.

If you're going for the hypocrisy angle, you'll have to do better than that

The two have nothing to do with each other.

What was posted was never presented in the first place under the premise that I'm able to divine what the world thinks about A, B or C based on my own observations.

The statements made here in this thread, though, do exactly that.

Pretentious to think one's world is everyone else's world, and such that you have an exceptional grasp on what is and what is not just because you are who you are and live where you live and know who you know. The humbler approach is to say what one has to say... that's all good and fine... but couch it in terms that you also acknowledge what you don't actually know, and perhaps even say straight-up where your assumptions might be wrong. Humbler is better because humbler is smarter... that's just how I see it... others may see it differently.

So what you're attempting to do here is a doctoral thesis?  If so, you're approaching it incorrectly.  You've presented a perceived problem and attempted to correct that problem with pre-conceived biases about said problem rather than actually attempting to find out if there is a problem in the first place.

You will never have the integrity you seek for this game until you address the volumes of other problems it has that have nothing to do with Designated Hitters.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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So what you're attempting to do here is a doctoral thesis?  If so, you're approaching it incorrectly.  You've presented a perceived problem and attempted to correct that problem with pre-conceived biases about said problem rather than actually attempting to find out if there is a problem in the first place.

You will never have the integrity you seek for this game until you address the volumes of other problems it has that have nothing to do with Designated Hitters.

Figuring out a way not to lose your fan base as the old cucks die is the real priority here. Sending guys like David Ortiz and Frank Thomas to the glue factory is a terrible idea and a great to make MLB an absolute bore. Can you imagine how snooze inducing it would be to have pitchers batting where home run hitting freaks used to be?

Offline Minty Fresh

  • Posts: 19612
  • Oh you call what you got a team?
Figuring out a way not to lose your fan base as the old cucks die is the real priority here. Sending guys like David Ortiz and Frank Thomas to the glue factory is a terrible idea and a great to make MLB an absolute bore. Can you imagine how snooze inducing it would be to have pitchers batting where home run hitting freaks used to be?

Not just pitchers either.  I got so sick of Danny Espinosa.  I am sick of watching Jose Lobaton and MAT.  All three of those guys have value, just not in a batting order.

Competitive integrity can never be achieved so long as MLB has guaranteed contracts.  Players who would otherwise not get playing time are given playing time solely because of their contract status.

Online HalfSmokes

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What ever starts the march to blernsball is the right answer

Offline MarquisDeSade

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  • I am Djour Djilios.
Competitive integrity can never be achieved so long as MLB has guaranteed contracts.  Players who would otherwise not get playing time are given playing time solely because of their contract status.

While I agree with you in spirit I don't think weakening the MLBPA is a good idea.  Teams already have a ton of team, cheap control over amateurs I don't think doing away with guaranteed contracts is going to help improve competitiveness.  How many players have the Braves outright released with money left just to clear a roster spot?  Guys like Lobaton and MAT aren't complete bums but once they've reached the end of their 40 man spot value they need to be DFAd.  If teams don't DFA them it's their own fault. 

Look at how long Rizzo kept HRod on the roster under the delusion of him figuring it out despite numerous "disabled list" stints to get his control better.  When he finally cut bait he got crap for him and then he got released numerous times.  Plenty of teams would have sacked him (and Espinosa and MAT) the second they had a better option or could get a bag of bats for them.  Rizzo holding onto them is on Rizzo.

Offline Minty Fresh

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While I agree with you in spirit I don't think weakening the MLBPA is a good idea.  Teams already have a ton of team, cheap control over amateurs I don't think doing away with guaranteed contracts is going to help improve competitiveness. 

And that's the crux of this argument.  I agree with you on this premise, but the discussion is we must maintain a high level of integrity - and my point is that it's impossible.  The best way to maintain a sense of integrity is to ensure the players are not doing anything which would compromise the results of a game (i.e. tanking for gambling purposes).  Short of that, there is no perfect scenario for "integrity."  Unattainable myth.

Online HalfSmokes

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One year contracts and eliminate the reserve clause- just think how fun it would be if every year your team was totally rebuilt

Offline Minty Fresh

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  • Oh you call what you got a team?
One year contracts and eliminate the reserve clause- just think how fun it would be if every year your team was totally rebuilt

I'd be fine with that.  Or incentive-laden. long-term contracts.  Pay for performance.

But then, cheap-ass owners like ours would be having managers benching players to avoid performance bonuses.

Perhaps it turns out that integrity is impossible in a Capitalist system.

Offline _sturt_

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You should hire a good whore, have one last meal at Morton's, and then drive your car directly into a wall at max speed.

I know you're just trying to make a joke, but January 2016, my 24 year-old son died in a car accident.

Offline GburgNatsFan

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 :'(
I know you're just trying to make a joke, but January 2016, my 24 year-old son died in a car accident.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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  • I am Djour Djilios.
I know you're just trying to make a joke, but January 2016, my 24 year-old son died in a car accident.

My apologies, I lost a very close friend because of someone attempting suicide by car so I really shouldn't joke about it.  Sometimes the persona hits too close to home. 

All of that said, I actually prefer the NL style of play to AL but I don't see the DH going away, especially with guys like Paul Molitor and Frank Thomas in the Hall of Fame and guys like David Ortiz and Edgar Martinez on their way in. 

Offline Natsinpwc

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I know you're just trying to make a joke, but January 2016, my 24 year-old son died in a car accident.
My condolences.  Must be tough to get through.  Thoughts and prayers to you and your family.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Scrap the DH.  If you're too fat to play in the field, you're too fat to play.  Similarly, pitchers are baseball players, and baseball players' hitting abilities should matter.

Offline Minty Fresh

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  • Oh you call what you got a team?
Scrap the DH.  If you're too fat to play in the field, you're too fat to play.  Similarly, pitchers are baseball players, and baseball players' hitting abilities should matter.

If you're too crappy to hit then you shouldn't be in a batting lineup.

Offline MarquisDeSade

  • Posts: 14955
  • I am Djour Djilios.
Scrap the DH.  If you're too fat to play in the field, you're too fat to play.  Similarly, pitchers are baseball players, and baseball players' hitting abilities should matter.

You plan on doing away with the DH in HS, college, and minors?

Online DPMOmaha

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Japan has a league that doesn't use the DH, but every other league in the world except the NL use the DH. We ain't going backwards with this one.