Author Topic: What's the new Moneyball in 2017?  (Read 951 times)

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Offline Lintyfresh85

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What's the new Moneyball in 2017?
« Topic Start: February 08, 2017, 02:39:31 PM »
Caught Moneyball the other night on FX for about the 100th time... it got me thinking, in 2017 what is the current Moneyball?

In my opinion it's contact. I feel like contact has become so undervalued that you can obtain it for cheap.

I imagine some would say power is heavily undervalued when you see Chris Carter get 3 million for hitting 41 HR's... however I think that's more a product of his other flaws than it is the failure to properly value power.

What do yall think is the most undervalued skill in baseball right now?

Offline NJ Ave

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Re: What's the new Moneyball in 2017?
« Reply #1: February 08, 2017, 03:00:42 PM »
Is pitcher health a skill?

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: What's the new Moneyball in 2017?
« Reply #2: February 08, 2017, 03:05:09 PM »
Baserunning.

Offline imref

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Re: What's the new Moneyball in 2017?
« Reply #3: February 08, 2017, 03:05:38 PM »
Is pitcher health a skill?

that's an interesting one.  I assume someone's looking at post-TJ productivity and trying to find opportunities to take advantage of players that other teams have shunned.


I'd also look at average innings per start.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: What's the new Moneyball in 2017?
« Reply #4: February 08, 2017, 03:07:16 PM »
Is pitcher health a skill?

The ability to diagnose and properly maintain players' health is where I would look. Teams are investing heavily into that right now. The Nats were able to take on injury risks at the top of the draft after they fell, and it's paid off.

Also, mental conditioning is an area teams have really looked at to gain an edge.

Offline GuyFromCO

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Re: What's the new Moneyball in 2017?
« Reply #5: February 08, 2017, 03:19:12 PM »
The ability to diagnose and properly maintain players' health is where I would look. Teams are investing heavily into that right now. The Nats were able to take on injury risks at the top of the draft after they fell, and it's paid off.

Also, mental conditioning is an area teams have really looked at to gain an edge.

This is it. Wearable technology, legality aside, will be the new advantage. Which is also aided by things like providing players with better food options, workout facilities, training staff, etc. Why teams don't have kitchens and room/board for their minor league players is beyond me (LAC :whip: ). Most of them are struggling to get by.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: What's the new Moneyball in 2017?
« Reply #6: February 08, 2017, 03:19:24 PM »

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: What's the new Moneyball in 2017?
« Reply #7: February 08, 2017, 03:25:16 PM »
I'm surprised no team has invested in extra coaches. If you could have three or four pitching coaches each assigned to only a couple of pitchers or assigned to game planning vs. working on mechanics or have an extra coach to work with rookies who still need instruction, you might see some gain. Toss in the fact that even the highest paid coaches make far less than even journeymen free agents and it seems worth a try

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: What's the new Moneyball in 2017?
« Reply #8: February 08, 2017, 03:28:11 PM »
This is it. Wearable technology, legality aside, will be the new advantage. Which is also aided by things like providing players with better food options, workout facilities, training staff, etc. Why teams don't have kitchens and room/board for their minor league players is beyond me (LAC :whip: ). Most of them are struggling to get by.

I could see unions having a fit over wearables since you could see it being used to predict injury and those hurting a 'healthy' player's value. Just look at the response to accelerometer in helmets from football

Offline NJ Ave

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Re: What's the new Moneyball in 2017?
« Reply #9: February 08, 2017, 03:31:37 PM »
I'm surprised no team has invested in extra coaches. If you could have three or four pitching coaches each assigned to only a couple of pitchers or assigned to game planning vs. working on mechanics or have an extra coach to work with rookies who still need instruction, you might see some gain. Toss in the fact that even the highest paid coaches make far less than even journeymen free agents and it seems worth a try

Yeah, I've always been shocked by the penny wise, pound foolish approach a lot of teams take in their front office. Too few scouts, too few coaches, too few analysts, too few executives. All when the total cost of those guys per year is like one year of a Dan Haren type. The idea that the major league pitcher coach can see top pitching prospects just a few times a year seems ludicrous.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: What's the new Moneyball in 2017?
« Reply #10: February 08, 2017, 04:37:48 PM »
I'm surprised no team has invested in extra coaches. If you could have three or four pitching coaches each assigned to only a couple of pitchers or assigned to game planning vs. working on mechanics or have an extra coach to work with rookies who still need instruction, you might see some gain. Toss in the fact that even the highest paid coaches make far less than even journeymen free agents and it seems worth a try

there is a limit to the number of coaches you can have in the dugout during the game, and teams do have a ton of "rover" coaches that can work with players individually, even at the major league level. Most of the time they roam the minor league teams and work with prospects, but they hang out with the big league club during BP and stuff, too.

I think there is also a "too many cooks in the kitchen" concern, too. Sure, you can say everyone is on the same page, but coaches are humans and they convey things to players very, very differently. Sometimes it's good to keep the source of the message from just a few voices.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: What's the new Moneyball in 2017?
« Reply #11: February 08, 2017, 04:42:37 PM »
This is it. Wearable technology, legality aside, will be the new advantage. Which is also aided by things like providing players with better food options, workout facilities, training staff, etc. Why teams don't have kitchens and room/board for their minor league players is beyond me (LAC :whip: ). Most of them are struggling to get by.

those clubhouses and stuff are run by the minor league teams, which are locally owned, and don't have the money to really do all that crazy stuff.

The best workout facilities in the NYY system, for example, are in Tampa, because the team's ownership works there and it's the hub of their major league scouting and rehab staff. So minor league players in A-ball get to work out next to rehabbing major league guys and get to use MLB-caliber facilities. Then, they're promoted to AA, where Trenton has the worst facilities of the organization. In Tampa, a lot of the minor-league players (at least USA-born) pool their money and rent condos/houses from NYY players who own a second home or something. Then they go to AA and AAA where they get trash apartments.

Offline houston-nat

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Re: What's the new Moneyball in 2017?
« Reply #12: February 08, 2017, 05:12:54 PM »
FanGraphs has recently reported on:
- conditioning
- nutrition
- jet lag avoidance strategies (like sending the road trip's first SP out of town a couple days early)
- improving communications & education in the coaching system

Personally I think proper nutrition for minor leaguers is a huge - but expensive - thing to easily address.

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: What's the new Moneyball in 2017?
« Reply #13: February 08, 2017, 06:09:38 PM »
only relievers.

lets assume the average mlb week has 6.5 games a week.  idk if it's accurate or not. 6.5 x 9 innings = 58.5 innings a week.  Divide that by 12 and you have 4.85 innings per pitcher per week.  That would be very manageable.  Sure some would pitch more and some would pitch less based on skill and matchups.  The match up game would be crazy too, plus creative managers mixing up relievers to give batters extremely different looks.  Some guys would still specialize as long men, some as flamethrowers, some sidearmers, some submariners, some junkballers, some control artists, hell even a knuckle guy.  Average relievers get paid less than good starters and would save a money scraping team (LAC) some dough

Offline tomterp

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Re: What's the new Moneyball in 2017?
« Reply #14: February 08, 2017, 08:52:31 PM »
Bench

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: What's the new Moneyball in 2017?
« Reply #15: February 08, 2017, 09:18:38 PM »
It's not necessarily 2017 more than '16, but I think it's actually pretty close to the original Moneyball in a broad sense: offense-first players at difficult defensive positions, or butchers in the field at easy defensive positions.  If you're looking for cheap upgrades right now, those one-dimensional offensive players are getting relatively little money compared to the Jason Heywards of the world, whose value is magnified because they are outliers at positions normally staffed by terrible defenders. 

Offline GuyFromCO

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Re: What's the new Moneyball in 2017?
« Reply #16: February 08, 2017, 11:11:49 PM »
those clubhouses and stuff are run by the minor league teams, which are locally owned, and don't have the money to really do all that crazy stuff.

The best workout facilities in the NYY system, for example, are in Tampa, because the team's ownership works there and it's the hub of their major league scouting and rehab staff. So minor league players in A-ball get to work out next to rehabbing major league guys and get to use MLB-caliber facilities. Then, they're promoted to AA, where Trenton has the worst facilities of the organization. In Tampa, a lot of the minor-league players (at least USA-born) pool their money and rent condos/houses from NYY players who own a second home or something. Then they go to AA and AAA where they get trash apartments.

I'm not going to get into the budgeting behind it all, and since you did work with them, I'm not going to disagree. It was shocks me that the richest team in the game doesn't go out of it's way to support their MiLB players (either by buying the team and making those upgrades, or supporting the local owners and doing it right). The Barves have adopted this model (owning their farm clubs), and while the admin side is more of a headache, I think it will pay off in the long run (if they run them right).

Offline Slateman

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Re: What's the new Moneyball in 2017?
« Reply #17: February 11, 2017, 02:57:24 PM »
Bullpens and stolen bases

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: What's the new Moneyball in 2017?
« Reply #18: February 14, 2017, 07:39:56 PM »
Bullpens and stolen bases

Good thing we have turner and a

bullpen...