Author Topic: MLB & Division Watching (2017)  (Read 29540 times)

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Offline houston-nat

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Re: MLB & Division Watching (2017)
« Reply #150: May 02, 2017, 11:52:09 AM »
“It’s pathetic,’’ he said. “It’s called a coward. What they need to do is that instead of kicking them out of the stadium, they need to fine them 10 grand, 20 grand, 30 grand. Something that really hurts somebody. Make them pay in full. And if they don’t, take it out of their check.


That quote above shows that Adam Jones just MIGHT be a little out of touch with what people actually make as a salary. Expecting someone to give up half a year's pay as an alternative to being kicked out of the stadium is a pretty massive escalation. I get hyperbole, but you could change 10, 20, or, 30 grand to 100, 500, or, 1000 dollars and still hurt most of the people in the country pretty badly.
Well, I think if he read this he would argue back to you that being a toxic racist should require a bit more of an attitude adjustment than, say, riding the metro without a ticket or driving 95 in a 65.

What I would respond back to him is that punishing somebody won't make them less racist.

Anyway, this could get deeper than you meant it to get.

Offline dracnal

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Re: MLB & Division Watching (2017)
« Reply #151: May 02, 2017, 03:35:04 PM »
Well, I think if he read this he would argue back to you that being a toxic racist should require a bit more of an attitude adjustment than, say, riding the metro without a ticket or driving 95 in a 65.

What I would respond back to him is that punishing somebody won't make them less racist.

Anyway, this could get deeper than you meant it to get.

Fair points. He should certainly not have been treated that way and has every right to be pissed off. I'm just saying that his monetary suggestions seem like they're driven by baseball paychecks not normal paychecks. The majority of Americans couldn't pay an unexpected $500 bill if a crisis happened. I'm perfectly fine with his desire to punish folks yelling hate speech and racial slurs, then throwing objects at them. Giving them crippling debt isn't likely to teach them the right lesson, though, and I think we agree on that.

Not sure how you, or if you, can change the mind of a deeply racist jackass. About the best I can see is people who aren't the object of the slurs need to speak up at the moment and tell off the jackass. Sitting around and quietly hoping the situation will resolve itself isn't going to get much done. It won't change the jackass's mind, but at least it may help motivate others to speak up in the future and get the jackasses of the world to keep their mouths shut in public.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: MLB & Division Watching (2017)
« Reply #152: May 02, 2017, 03:50:37 PM »
Well, I think if he read this he would argue back to you that being a toxic racist should require a bit more of an attitude adjustment than, say, riding the metro without a ticket or driving 95 in a 65.

I just don't know how you could fine  someone for saying something that's racist.  violent, yes.  Violate civil rights, yes.  But words alone are just difficult to criminalize.  Maybe teams could require posting a bond with your season tickets that they could take if anyone violated  decorum rules using your seats, but that's about as far as I think you could go.

Offline mitlen

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Re: MLB & Division Watching (2017)
« Reply #153: May 02, 2017, 03:55:59 PM »
I just don't know how you could fine  someone for saying something that's racist.  violent, yes.  Violate civil rights, yes.  But words alone are just difficult to criminalize.  Maybe teams could require posting a bond with your season tickets that they could take if anyone violated  decorum rules using your seats, but that's about as far as I think you could go.

I would imagine the agreement between the team and the season ticket holder already has some sort of "behavior clause" (or whatever it would be called).   I knew some guys who had Steelers' season tickets.   They'd let other people use them.    One of the "visitors" got ugly.    The STH got a letter that stated if the Steelers received another complaint about anyone sitting in his seats, he would lose them.

BTW  ...  the Jones story is on CNN now.

Offline skippy1999

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Re: MLB & Division Watching (2017)
« Reply #154: May 02, 2017, 04:01:29 PM »
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2017/05/01/orioles-adam-jones-berated-racist-taunts-fenway-park-peanuts/101187172/

I'm listening to a talk show right now.  A guy called in and said he was seated a few rows behind the guy who threw peanuts.  From the box seats near the Os dugout.  Drunk, of course, but he managed to hit Jones.  While the crowd pointed the guy out and he was thrown immediately, that doesn't explain the epithets and how they were tolerated.  Awful situation.  I wonder how quick these jackasses would turn on Mookie Betts or Jackie Bradley if they are capable of saying this stuff when they are loosened up by alcohol? 

Oh let them run into an extended rough patch (the team or the players) and I'm sure it wouldn't take long, I don't know why I'm continually amazed by how badly some people suck but I am, every time, was disgusted reading about this today.  I'm glad the fans pointed out the peanut thrower but I'm wondering if they would've called security over for the racial epithets would those idiots have been tossed for saying that? To me they absolutely should, I'm just wondering what the actual rules are?   

Offline skippy1999

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Re: MLB & Division Watching (2017)
« Reply #155: May 02, 2017, 07:24:54 PM »
Crowd gave Jones a nice standing O-then Sale threwbehind Machado :shock: Sale looks all kinds of crazed, wish we had him :lol:

Offline spidernat

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Re: MLB & Division Watching (2017)
« Reply #156: May 02, 2017, 08:30:44 PM »
Crowd gave Jones a nice standing O-then Sale threwbehind Machado :shock: Sale looks all kinds of crazed, wish we had him :lol:



NANF

Offline varoadking

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Re: MLB & Division Watching (2017)
« Reply #157: May 02, 2017, 08:34:50 PM »

We were in Fenway when the Sox were playing the Yankees, and 3 people in our section (OF behind the bullpens) were escorted out.  One by an usher for foul language, and 2 others by police for a fist fight.

I just figured they would have dozens of ejections every night there...  :shrug:

Offline skippy1999

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Re: MLB & Division Watching (2017)
« Reply #158: May 02, 2017, 08:54:16 PM »
We were in Fenway when the Sox were playing the Yankees, and 3 people in our section (OF behind the bullpens) were escorted out.  One by an usher for foul language, and 2 others by police for a fist fight.

I just figured they would have dozens of ejections every night there...  :shrug:

They probably do :smh:

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: MLB & Division Watching (2017)
« Reply #159: May 02, 2017, 09:04:51 PM »
We were in Fenway when the Sox were playing the Yankees, and 3 people in our section (OF behind the bullpens) were escorted out.  One by an usher for foul language, and 2 others by police for a fist fight.

I just figured they would have dozens of ejections every night there...  :shrug:

I've been to literally hundreds of games there.  Sat in lots of different areas and price-points.  I saw multiple fights.  Every game.

Offline imref

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Re: MLB & Division Watching (2017)
« Reply #160: May 02, 2017, 11:40:07 PM »
I've been to literally hundreds of games there.  Sat in lots of different areas and price-points.  I saw multiple fights.  Every game.

Probably because the seats are so uncomfortable.  They should have replaced Fenway long ago.

Offline skippy1999

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Re: MLB & Division Watching (2017)
« Reply #161: May 02, 2017, 11:54:58 PM »
Probably because the seats are so uncomfortable.  They should have replaced Fenway long ago.

No. No, no, no and no.

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: MLB & Division Watching (2017)
« Reply #162: May 03, 2017, 08:06:35 AM »
No. No, no, no and no.

It's a DUMP.  Nothing wrong with replacing it with a newer park but keeping the characteristics that make it unique.  Why not tear it down and rebuild it on the same spot?  Play a year in a different park while it's being built?

Baseball is so beholden to tradition that they constantly trip over their own dicks while other sports pass them by....

Offline dcpatti

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Re: MLB & Division Watching (2017)
« Reply #163: May 03, 2017, 08:23:31 AM »
It's a DUMP.  Nothing wrong with replacing it with a newer park but keeping the characteristics that make it unique.  Why not tear it down and rebuild it on the same spot?  Play a year in a different park while it's being built?

Baseball is so beholden to tradition that they constantly trip over their own dicks while other sports pass them by....

Because they could never build to modern building codes without losing capacity if they wanted to build on the same site (and I can't think of a single good reason to leave that site). Within the last few years, they had at least part of the lower seating level declared as a historic site which makes them exempt from ADA, certain fire codes, etc. And while I'm not sure if that was the motivation behind the historic status, I don't think anyone in the Sox office complained. They're selling out their season plans and consistently ranking in the top 5 in paid attendance even in down years, even with one of the smallest ballparks; they're not going to want to lose a single seat by having to create pesky things like aisles and wheelchair ramps.

Offline skippy1999

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Re: MLB & Division Watching (2017)
« Reply #164: May 03, 2017, 09:48:22 AM »
It's a DUMP.  Nothing wrong with replacing it with a newer park but keeping the characteristics that make it unique.  Why not tear it down and rebuild it on the same spot?  Play a year in a different park while it's being built?

Baseball is so beholden to tradition that they constantly trip over their own dicks while other sports pass them by....

I think this is just so wrong, why would we tear something so unique and with so much history down just to build another concrete and brick nondescript monolith?  Theo had renovations done to Fenway same as he did with Wrigley because he knows once you tear it down it's gone forever and no new building is ever going to have that history.  Stadium seats will be uncomfortable during a long game period and you'll always have seats in the middle where you have to climb over people.  All we do in this country is tear crap down and build newer, more generic stuff behind it, I still can't believe they tore down Yankee Stadium, dumbest thing ever. I do not understand wanting to get rid of such a piece of history I just don't. 

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: MLB & Division Watching (2017)
« Reply #165: May 03, 2017, 10:15:36 AM »
We were in Fenway when the Sox were playing the Yankees, and 3 people in our section (OF behind the bullpens) were escorted out.  One by an usher for foul language, and 2 others by police for a fist fight.

I just figured they would have dozens of ejections every night there...  :shrug:
they have about 15 a night, according to the Sox.  Monday there were about 24.  They gave an accounting.  Most for drunkenness, 3 for pot, the peanut thrower, 3 for fighting, and some for disruptive behavior, which I assume includes the language.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: MLB & Division Watching (2017)
« Reply #166: May 03, 2017, 10:19:34 AM »
Henry says the renovations Janet Marie Smith put in will keep the ballpark usable for 50 years (wall seats, upper deck expanded seating, expanded vending outside the seating bowl, etc...).

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: MLB & Division Watching (2017)
« Reply #167: May 03, 2017, 11:58:01 AM »
Because they could never build to modern building codes without losing capacity if they wanted to build on the same site (and I can't think of a single good reason to leave that site). Within the last few years, they had at least part of the lower seating level declared as a historic site which makes them exempt from ADA, certain fire codes, etc. And while I'm not sure if that was the motivation behind the historic status, I don't think anyone in the Sox office complained. They're selling out their season plans and consistently ranking in the top 5 in paid attendance even in down years, even with one of the smallest ballparks; they're not going to want to lose a single seat by having to create pesky things like aisles and wheelchair ramps.

That is one of their inherent advantages to sellouts - a smaller seating capacity.  I like what the MLS is doing with their new soccer-only stadiums being built.  Small capacities. More fans are watching on their various forms of media devices so they limit the seats at the arena and make it look like a must-attend event.  MLS is succeeding where the other sports (except maybe hockey) are failing.


I think this is just so wrong, why would we tear something so unique and with so much history down just to build another concrete and brick nondescript monolith?  Theo had renovations done to Fenway same as he did with Wrigley because he knows once you tear it down it's gone forever and no new building is ever going to have that history.  Stadium seats will be uncomfortable during a long game period and you'll always have seats in the middle where you have to climb over people.  All we do in this country is tear crap down and build newer, more generic stuff behind it, I still can't believe they tore down Yankee Stadium, dumbest thing ever. I do not understand wanting to get rid of such a piece of history I just don't. 


As someone who works in facilities, I don't understand the thought process of preserving antiquated in-use buildings.  If you love the building so much then turn it into a museum or put it on the historic register.  Don't schedule 81 baseball games (at a minimum) in it every year and then jack-up the prices.  Fenway doesn't sell out every night so it's not like people are paying to go for the nostalgia of it.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: MLB & Division Watching (2017)
« Reply #168: May 03, 2017, 12:01:59 PM »
As someone who works in facilities, I don't understand the thought process of preserving antiquated in-use buildings.  If you love the building so much then turn it into a museum or put it on the historic register.  Don't schedule 81 baseball games (at a minimum) in it every year and then jack-up the prices.  Fenway doesn't sell out every night so it's not like people are paying to go for the nostalgia of it.


because baseball markets that nostalgia. Even if it doesn't work in person (personally I loved it when I went to games there), it plays well on TV and that probably matters as much if not more

Offline skippy1999

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Re: MLB & Division Watching (2017)
« Reply #169: May 03, 2017, 01:51:49 PM »

Fenway doesn't sell out every night so it's not like people are paying to go for the nostalgia of it.

No thank God they've given up trying to say a 2/3 full ballpark is "sold out" but they still bested Nats Park last year by about 2,000 a game, I think you're nuts if you don't think tourists going to Boston aren't saying "hey let's go to Fenway" JUST to say they've been to Fenway, you tear it down and put up a generic ballpark and people who don't like the Sox are not going to that game.  The last time I went to Fenway in 2011 and put pics on Facebook I can't tell you how many people commented how much either they loved that they had been there or it was on their bucket list.  Fenway is special precisely because of it's history; most anything can be renovated to make it more modern, but modern buildings cannot possibly hold the same charm as older structures.

Offline varoadking

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Re: MLB & Division Watching (2017)
« Reply #170: May 03, 2017, 02:56:47 PM »
It's a DUMP.

Yup...kinda like the Pfitz.  I went there because I wanted to see it before they tore it down.  Guess I had plenty of time...  ;)

A Wrigley, they were more interested in scoreboards and a better home team clubhouse than they were in keeping chunks of concrete from falling on you (they installed chicken wire on the bottom the the beams to break the fall).


Offline mitlen

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Re: MLB & Division Watching (2017)
« Reply #172: May 04, 2017, 06:52:49 AM »
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/baseball-fan-grazed-by-stray-bullet-during-cardinals-game-at/article_a8eba213-11bf-5b4f-a0e3-a8a730568ca6.html

There are no stray bullets.     There are those with your name on it and there are those addressed to "whom it may concern".       :)    Heard that somewhere a long time ago.   

Offline imref

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Re: MLB & Division Watching (2017)
« Reply #173: May 04, 2017, 08:34:36 AM »
There are no stray bullets.     There are those with your name on it and there are those addressed to "whom it may concern".       :)    Heard that somewhere a long time ago.   

the article says police suspect it was fired a mile away into the air. 

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: MLB & Division Watching (2017)
« Reply #174: May 04, 2017, 09:31:43 AM »
No thank God they've given up trying to say a 2/3 full ballpark is "sold out" but they still bested Nats Park last year by about 2,000 a game...

Do you think that might be the fact that the Red Sox are entrenched in the culture of Boston and have actually proven to be a competently run franchise for nearly two decades, though?  And that the Nats have no historical or cultural ties to DC and thanks to the other choking sports franchises in DC has an apathetic fan base (at best)?  To compare Red Sox attendance to Nats attendance isn't even apples to oranges, it's fruit to vegetable.

The last time I went to Fenway in 2011 and put pics on Facebook I can't tell you how many people commented how much either they loved that they had been there or it was on their bucket list.  Fenway is special precisely because of it's history; most anything can be renovated to make it more modern, but modern buildings cannot possibly hold the same charm as older structures.

You are also a Red Sox fan - likely with lots of Facebook friends who are also Red Sox fans.


From a facilities point of view, it's a dump.  Trough toilets, no concourse, seats facing the wrong direction, obstructed views in high-priced seating areas, etc.  Dump.