Author Topic: The PED Suspensions Thread  (Read 2619 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline imref

  • Posts: 25959
  • 1B: The New Hot Corner
The PED Suspensions Thread
« Topic Start: May 10, 2016, 04:52:51 PM »
KC's Raul Mondesi joins the club, 50 games for Clenbuterol.

Offline houston-nat

  • Posts: 19028
Re: The PED Suspensions Thread
« Reply #1: May 10, 2016, 04:58:34 PM »
KC's Raul Mondesi joins the club, 50 games for Clenbuterol.
Mondesi went further than most players - he specified the drug he got busted for. It's an over-the-counter cold medicine that he bought while sick at home in the DR, didn't check with trainers to see if it was banned.

I know they have an obligation to know, and ignorance is no excuse, etc., but I feel bad - it seems very harsh to suspend someone for 50 games because they caught a cold and took the wrong cold meds.

Offline skippy1999

  • Posts: 15892
Re: The PED Suspensions Thread
« Reply #2: May 10, 2016, 05:12:46 PM »
Mondesi went further than most players - he specified the drug he got busted for. It's an over-the-counter cold medicine that he bought while sick at home in the DR, didn't check with trainers to see if it was banned.

I know they have an obligation to know, and ignorance is no excuse, etc., but I feel bad - it seems very harsh to suspend someone for 50 games because they caught a cold and took the wrong cold meds.

You need a prescription for it in the UK and US but it may be different in the DR, but I'm too cynical and don't buy any of the "it must have been my cold medicine" excuses.

Offline houston-nat

  • Posts: 19028
Re: The PED Suspensions Thread
« Reply #3: May 10, 2016, 05:20:19 PM »
You need a prescription for it in the UK and US but it may be different in the DR, but I'm too cynical and don't buy any of the "it must have been my cold medicine" excuses.
Third world countries are more relaxed about over the counter stuff. When I got E. coli in Morocco, my digestive system was very rapidly reset by a pill so strong that it's banned here cuz it can cause kidney failure. My kidneys are still working and I'm alive, so, hooray for sketchy medicines!

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 25022
  • Platoon - not just a movie, a baseball obsession
Re: The PED Suspensions Thread
« Reply #4: May 10, 2016, 05:29:25 PM »
Third world countries are more relaxed about over the counter stuff. When I got E. coli in Morocco, my digestive system was very rapidly reset by a pill so strong that it's banned here cuz it can cause kidney failure. My kidneys are still working and I'm alive, so, hooray for sketchy medicines!
I think the early positives for PEDs from the testing disproportionately came from Carribean and central American countries, and there was a sense that the OTC stuff was not as tightly controlled as the FDA.  The alternative explanation was that these players were more desperate to make it so took risks.  This is why I find Ortiz credible when he say he does not know what the purported positive in '03 was for.  He's probably the least likely guy to take OTC stuff from outside the US with his money, time living in the US, and the leak about his anonymous test, and he's not turned up again after 13 years.

Offline spidernat

  • Posts: 68910
  • The Lerners are Cheap AND Crooked
Re: The PED Suspensions Thread
« Reply #5: May 10, 2016, 06:25:36 PM »
  This is why I find Ortiz credible

:hysterical: 

Offline spidernat

  • Posts: 68910
  • The Lerners are Cheap AND Crooked
Re: The PED Suspensions Thread
« Reply #6: May 10, 2016, 06:28:46 PM »
Mondesi went further than most players - he specified the drug he got busted for.

Body builders use that crap so he's full of it (just like the rest of the juicers who claim "cortisone", diet pills, etc.).

Offline whytev

  • Posts: 8768
Re: The PED Suspensions Thread
« Reply #7: May 10, 2016, 08:42:10 PM »
Sketchy cold medicines are amphetamines, right?

I don't think amphetamines should be in the same category as steroids and other hormones.

Online tomterp

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 32936
  • Hell yes!

Offline skippy1999

  • Posts: 15892
Re: The PED Suspensions Thread
« Reply #9: May 11, 2016, 12:12:28 AM »
I don't think amphetamines should be in the same category as steroids and other hormones.

Totally agree.

Also JCA I love Big Papi too but finding Ortiz credible?

:hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:

Offline HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 19312
Re: The PED Suspensions Thread
« Reply #10: May 11, 2016, 07:14:33 AM »
Sketchy cold medicines are amphetamines, right?

I don't think amphetamines should be in the same category as steroids and other hormones.

Yep, amphetamines are much more dangerous drugs

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 25022
  • Platoon - not just a movie, a baseball obsession
Re: The PED Suspensions Thread
« Reply #11: May 11, 2016, 08:08:01 AM »
Totally agree.

Also JCA I love Big Papi too but finding Ortiz credible?

:hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:
credible in that he does not deny that the leaked information is correct.  I honestly think that the OTC stuff in the latin America was very much "don't ask, don't tell" in the 90s and early 00s.  Folks didn't ask what was in it as long as it was non-prescription and it seemed to work.  Ortiz was one of those guys.  Call it reckless in the disregard for the ban on PEDs in sport, call it willful blindness, whatever, but I do believe it was an OTC product among many from the home country.  There's too much of a pattern of that across baseball (disproportionate positives from LA) for that not to be part of the case.

 Unlike Manny, unlike A-Rod, unlike Palmeiro / Tejada, there's no history of violations after full MLB testing began.  Maybe he hides it better than others like A-Rod can afford to do (and do it so anonymously that there's no lab rumored or rat claiming to be a source to get paid), or, taking the simplest explanation with the fewest assumptions, he stopped using whatever he had been using. Now, instead DADT, you ask to cover your butt.

Offline dcpatti

  • Posts: 2759
Re: The PED Suspensions Thread
« Reply #12: May 11, 2016, 08:57:45 AM »
Sketchy cold medicines are amphetamines, right?

I don't think amphetamines should be in the same category as steroids and other hormones.

Google told me that this particular medicine apparently treats coughs by relaxing muscles (your diaphragm I guess?), so I think it's more like pneumonia medicine than run-of-the-mill cold medicine. It also increases the muscles' ability to absorb oxygen, so it sounds like it's almost a pseudo-steriod rather than an amphetamine.

Offline skippy1999

  • Posts: 15892
Re: The PED Suspensions Thread
« Reply #13: May 11, 2016, 10:03:34 AM »
credible in that he does not deny that the leaked information is correct.  I honestly think that the OTC stuff in the latin America was very much "don't ask, don't tell" in the 90s and early 00s.  Folks didn't ask what was in it as long as it was non-prescription and it seemed to work.  Ortiz was one of those guys.  Call it reckless in the disregard for the ban on PEDs in sport, call it willful blindness, whatever, but I do believe it was an OTC product among many from the home country.  There's too much of a pattern of that across baseball (disproportionate positives from LA) for that not to be part of the case.

 Unlike Manny, unlike A-Rod, unlike Palmeiro / Tejada, there's no history of violations after full MLB testing began.  Maybe he hides it better than others like A-Rod can afford to do (and do it so anonymously that there's no lab rumored or rat claiming to be a source to get paid), or, taking the simplest explanation with the fewest assumptions, he stopped using whatever he had been using. Now, instead DADT, you ask to cover your butt.

didn't he say he was going to get to the bottom of it and fight to clear his name? Like OJ finding the real killer? and we've heard nada from him since?  I don't know, all these people that say "oh it was something OTC I took" well you know what? say what you took. Tell us! Warn others! It shouldn't be that hard to figure out what you took and out that product so that no one else fails a test they shouldn't.  And I do believe it's possible to use and keep it secret, Arod is a ninny in every facet of his life it seems so it's no wonder he had so much come out against him, Ortiz is probably smart like Peyton who if it wasn't for al Jazeera we'd still never know he was having flippin' hgh delivered to his house.   

Google told me that this particular medicine apparently treats coughs by relaxing muscles (your diaphragm I guess?), so I think it's more like pneumonia medicine than run-of-the-mill cold medicine. It also increases the muscles' ability to absorb oxygen, so it sounds like it's almost a pseudo-steriod rather than an amphetamine.

I used to have asthma, every bronchodilator I ever used wired me out but maybe they've changed. 

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 25022
  • Platoon - not just a movie, a baseball obsession
Re: The PED Suspensions Thread
« Reply #14: May 11, 2016, 11:52:41 AM »
didn't he say he was going to get to the bottom of it and fight to clear his name? Like OJ finding the real killer?

no. He did not deny the accuracy of the report.  That's a bit different than OJ, right?  I did think he may have said he would provide more information once he knew more about the specific drug, which he did not name and still has not, but it wasn't "clear his name" kind of stuff IIRC.

Offline whytev

  • Posts: 8768
Re: The PED Suspensions Thread
« Reply #15: May 11, 2016, 12:09:25 PM »
Yep, amphetamines are much more dangerous drugs

Maybe so, but we prescribe them to children.

Chris Davis made himself a little more alert. He didn't make himself stronger. Just more alert. Not as bad as the HGH and the steroids as far as cheating goes.

Plus the ADD patients have exemptions, and the rest can't touch it. That's dumb. It helps your alertness either way.

Offline whytev

  • Posts: 8768
Re: The PED Suspensions Thread
« Reply #16: May 11, 2016, 12:10:45 PM »
Google told me that this particular medicine apparently treats coughs by relaxing muscles (your diaphragm I guess?), so I think it's more like pneumonia medicine than run-of-the-mill cold medicine. It also increases the muscles' ability to absorb oxygen, so it sounds like it's almost a pseudo-steriod rather than an amphetamine.

Huh. In Canada they put that crap in all the daytime remedies just for craps and giggles.

Offline skippy1999

  • Posts: 15892
Re: The PED Suspensions Thread
« Reply #17: May 11, 2016, 12:13:15 PM »
no. He did not deny the accuracy of the report.  That's a bit different than OJ, right?  I did think he may have said he would provide more information once he knew more about the specific drug, which he did not name and still has not, but it wasn't "clear his name" kind of stuff IIRC.
http://archive.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2009/07/31/ortiz_confirms_he_tested_positive_in_2003/?page=1

Quote
Based on the way I have lived my life, I am surprised to learn I tested positive,’’ he said in his statement. “I will find out what I tested positive for. And, based on whatever I learn, I will share this information with my club and the public. You know me - I will not hide and I will not make excuses.’’

it's just way similar to me, that quote was from 2009 and he hasn't said a word about what he tested positive for, a few people have asked and he says "still don't know, next question" basically and that's just so lame to me, if that was me I'd be camped out in front of MLB's office demanding they either identify what I tested positive for or issue a retraction for besmirching my name when they can't say what I was busted for.  I just can't fathom someone letting something as big as being deemed a PED user go if they weren't in fact guilty of something because if you do let it go then you definitely look guilty IMO.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 25022
  • Platoon - not just a movie, a baseball obsession
Re: The PED Suspensions Thread
« Reply #18: May 11, 2016, 01:49:15 PM »
http://archive.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2009/07/31/ortiz_confirms_he_tested_positive_in_2003/?page=1

it's just way similar to me, that quote was from 2009 and he hasn't said a word about what he tested positive for, a few people have asked and he says "still don't know, next question" basically and that's just so lame to me, if that was me I'd be camped out in front of MLB's office demanding they either identify what I tested positive for or issue a retraction for besmirching my name when they can't say what I was busted for.  I just can't fathom someone letting something as big as being deemed a PED user go if they weren't in fact guilty of something because if you do let it go then you definitely look guilty IMO.

As I said, that quote does not deny he had a positive.  It does have the "I will find out  . . . [and] share" as you and I both remembered.  Clearly, he has not shared anything more about it.  You and I can look at the same quote and read it two different ways.  There's no denial in there, in contrast to OJ. That's a real reach on your part (nothing personal, just a disagreement).

Offline skippy1999

  • Posts: 15892
Re: The PED Suspensions Thread
« Reply #19: May 11, 2016, 02:02:31 PM »
As I said, that quote does not deny he had a positive.  It does have the "I will find out  . . . [and] share" as you and I both remembered.  Clearly, he has not shared anything more about it.  You and I can look at the same quote and read it two different ways.  There's no denial in there, in contrast to OJ. That's a real reach on your part (nothing personal, just a disagreement).

Nah you're right, we're just looking at his quote two different ways so no worries, I should probably be less cynical anyway, working for lawyers has jaded me ;) 

Offline HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 19312
Re: The PED Suspensions Thread
« Reply #20: May 11, 2016, 03:30:16 PM »
Maybe so, but we prescribe them to children.

Chris Davis made himself a little more alert. He didn't make himself stronger. Just more alert. Not as bad as the HGH and the steroids as far as cheating goes.

Plus the ADD patients have exemptions, and the rest can't touch it. That's dumb. It helps your alertness either way.

We prescribe steroids to children too

Offline whytev

  • Posts: 8768
Re: The PED Suspensions Thread
« Reply #21: May 11, 2016, 05:54:36 PM »
We prescribe steroids to children too

True. Still not my point. Steroids are more performance enhancing. It's not about relative drug safety.

Offline imref

  • Posts: 25959
  • 1B: The New Hot Corner
Re: The PED Suspensions Thread
« Reply #22: May 13, 2016, 04:14:54 PM »
Jose Reyes come on down, 51 games.

Offline skippy1999

  • Posts: 15892
Re: The PED Suspensions Thread
« Reply #23: May 13, 2016, 04:19:40 PM »
Jose Reyes come on down, 51 games.

That's for domestic violence though, right?

Offline BrandonK

  • Posts: 8175
  • #LOLNats
Re: The PED Suspensions Thread
« Reply #24: May 13, 2016, 04:29:41 PM »
That's for domestic violence though, right?

Yes, and retroactive from ST onwards. He's back at the end of the month. It'll be interesting to see what the Rox do with him