Author Topic: Following the Minor League Teams (2016)  (Read 31720 times)

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Offline BrandonK

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Re: Following the Minor League Teams (2016)
« Reply #100: August 23, 2016, 10:44:06 AM »
Everything I've read suggests the California League will stay at 8 for 8+10 Carolina + 12 FSL = 30 total High-A teams.  The FSL numbers probably won't change, as they just play in the spring training ballparks, many of which are pretty nice.  As for the Carolina, I wonder if the Waldorf folks made a pitch there.  They've got the stadium already, and the owners have operated in the Carolina League before (used to own Frederick).

I think it was in the MASN thread (can't remember), but it was mentioned that the Nats tried to get ownership in the team or something like that. They put in the request for a farm team to be in Waldorf, but Angelos denied it. Oh well.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Following the Minor League Teams (2016)
« Reply #101: August 23, 2016, 11:10:11 AM »
I think it was in the MASN thread (can't remember), but it was mentioned that the Nats tried to get ownership in the team or something like that. They put in the request for a farm team to be in Waldorf, but Angelos denied it. Oh well.

Angelos is such miserable old toad. I suspect he might feel differently if it weren't a Nats team, but another AL team might not sit so well either.  I think the Orioles are pretty happy with Frederick, though, and they probably wouldn't want to lose that. 

Offline BrandonK

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Re: Following the Minor League Teams (2016)
« Reply #102: August 23, 2016, 11:24:45 AM »
Angelos is such miserable old toad. I suspect he might feel differently if it weren't a Nats team, but another AL team might not sit so well either.  I think the Orioles are pretty happy with Frederick, though, and they probably wouldn't want to lose that. 

Yeah, I think it was just more to spite the Nats.

Offline Mr Clean

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Re: Following the Minor League Teams (2016)
« Reply #103: August 23, 2016, 08:21:43 PM »
We need a Tyler Watson thread. Dude killed it this season. 2015 HS arm (34th rd pick) that signed. Looks like he's been shut down as well (only 43 IPs this year though).
He was promoted to Hagerstown and is pitching (and dealing) tonight.   

Offline BrandonK

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Re: Following the Minor League Teams (2016)
« Reply #104: August 23, 2016, 08:47:11 PM »
He was promoted to Hagerstown and is pitching (and dealing) tonight.   

Sure enough! 7 Ks

Offline BrandonK

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Re: Following the Minor League Teams (2016)
« Reply #105: August 24, 2016, 09:53:36 AM »
Just a vent. Feel free to ignore

Really wish Rizzo adopted the philosophies that others are adopting. Sure, pitching is a premium, but it's also the most unpredictable. When it hits, it's the most cost-effective way to run a pitching staff, with reserves throughout the season.

Thing is, we've said "you can buy a bat," yet Riz/Lerners have continued to strikeout of FA signings. In fact, the big FA signings have mostly been pitchers... So they're signing pitchers to large deals, while "developing" young pitchers, yet continuing to ignore offense. They haven't draft a bopper since... Harper (does that even count)? The Nats have 3 or so major holes in the lineup now, and could not even reach down into AA for something to help the ML squad. The Cubs continue to call up bats, which are only helping them strengthen their division and #1 seed (an aside: I don't see them "playing tired" or "playing like they've already won," FP...). To hell with this notion that pitching wins in the playoffs. KC scored 25 runs in the ALDS (5 runs/G),  38 in the ALCS (6.33/G), and 27 in the WS (5.4/G). The Nats are currently at 4.83 runs/G, but as anyone who watches knows, this team is prone to being shutdown, then having the occasional blowout. I just don't understand why it hasn't started from the ground up -- drafting, developing, and trading for young bats. The Nats will have another hole at catcher this year. I guess they hope Pedro is able to fill that. Maybe they will re-sign Ramos, but who knows. Werth's contract will be up. There's not a single bat close (within 2 years) that could take over his spot immediately, or at least be a contributor (same can be said about CF, but Robles is supposed to be that guy -- to be seen). Outside of Kieboom, who was just drafted, the prospects look pretty bleak at 3B. For all the SS the Nats have piled up in the farm, they've moved them off SS to other spots. Not including Difo/Turner, there's not a SS prospect in the system that is worth a damn. 2B is pretty similar (Schrock is looking like a solid prospect though -- still, many years away). The org has NEVER developed a 1B bat. Never. Chris Marrero is the best 1B prospect the Nats have ever had. C is just as much of a blackhole, but Pedro did look good (he's also hit .264 in AAA, which would be very passable in the ML, but who knows how that translates).

Sorry for the long vent. Just wondering how others who follow the farm feel about this.

Offline NJ Ave

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Re: Following the Minor League Teams (2016)
« Reply #106: August 24, 2016, 10:08:14 AM »
Not including Difo/Turner...

Isn't it pretty easy to make claims that the organization has not developed players, if you ignore the players they've developed?

Rendon/Ramos/Harper don't count, they were already good when we got them.

Souza/Norris don't count because their accomplishments were for other teams (even though we developed them into good enough players that they brought back major pieces in trades).

Espinosa doesn't count, because he's flawed.

Turner doesn't count, because [insert reason here].

So give me a break, please. The Cubs started the year with a C, 2B, CF and RF who were acquired as veterans through trades or free agent signings. If we didn't develop Wilson Ramos, THEY didn't develop Anthony Rizzo, who was developed by the Red Sox and Padres. Addison Russell was in AA with the Athletics when they acquired him.

There isn't a successful team in baseball that just drafts and develops 100% of its talent. You always need to acquire talent and fill holes through trades and free agency.

Offline BrandonK

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Re: Following the Minor League Teams (2016)
« Reply #107: August 24, 2016, 10:31:26 AM »
I said outside of Difo/Turner, because neither are getting looks at SS.

I guess it matters what you consider "developing." Harper/Rendon were near locks when drafted (IMO anyways). Ramos is a two-fold case; a great trade, and good development (again, IMO).

You're right -- I was not looking a pieces traded away. I'm talking about the state of the system TODAY, which includes Turner/Ross/Gio G (whom were obtained using Norris/Souza).

Espi has a lock on SS. See bullet 1.

Again, same thing re: Turner

I don't want to turn this into a Cubs discussion, so I'm not even going to get into the Russell discussion. Sorry for mentioning them.

My point was, outside of the "locks" (Rendon/Harper), this org has yet to produce a bat, and it looks pretty bleak in the near future (the next 2 years). You made a fine point including Ramos (you could debate that though -- he only played 20 games in the Nationals' minor league system, but I'll give it). Trea may be the first, but it's far too early. I guess we could include Desmond on the list, but he was here before Bowden/Rizzo's tenure too.

Offline BrandonK

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Re: Following the Minor League Teams (2016)
« Reply #108: August 24, 2016, 10:33:08 AM »
Face too. I forgot to mention him.

Offline monkeyhit

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Re: Following the Minor League Teams (2016)
« Reply #109: August 24, 2016, 10:56:33 AM »
BK, I understand your rant. Rizzo's approach is flawed, though it pays off in the 8-batter lineup of the NL. We can't compete against the AL East teams because their philosophy is load the lineup. Only the last year or so has Rizzo drafted position players and you can see the results in the kids in the Florida league. Of course they are too far away to even count.
Theo Epstein has been GM in both circuits, so he knows how to draft: batters first, pitchers you can trade for or get in Free Agency. The one big bat he drafted is Harper's and that bat isn't doing the job anymore. He definitely needed/needs to pull off a Cespedes deal or they won't compete against AL teams in the playoffs. As we see now, drafting pitchers is a crapshoot.

Offline NJ Ave

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Re: Following the Minor League Teams (2016)
« Reply #110: August 24, 2016, 11:44:24 AM »
My point was, outside of the "locks" (Rendon/Harper), this org has yet to produce a bat, and it looks pretty bleak in the near future (the next 2 years). You made a fine point including Ramos (you could debate that though -- he only played 20 games in the Nationals' minor league system, but I'll give it). Trea may be the first, but it's far too early. I guess we could include Desmond on the list, but he was here before Bowden/Rizzo's tenure too.

Again, if you dismiss two all-star level bats because they were "locks" then it gets really easy to say the org can't develop a bat. If you dismiss all-star level guys like Ramos because they were in another organization 7 years ago, that makes it even easier. And if you dismiss any prospects who look really great but haven't proven it at the major league level like Trea Turner - well, that's easiest of all. You've just eliminated all the talented players as either "sure things," "somebody's else's prospect," or "too young".

Since 2012 Rizzo has put together an offense that has scored the 2nd most runs in the NL (I'm excluding the Rockies, because come on). That's enough for me.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Following the Minor League Teams (2016)
« Reply #111: August 24, 2016, 12:05:24 PM »
I'll flip it.  I think the organization is finally at a stage where it can get useful bench pieces and starters in the field, which is a far cry from the rosters up to this point.  We are able to call up a Difo, a Turner, play a Taylor, call up a Severino, and still have depth pieces like a den Dekker (admittedly a trade) that we have not needed to lean on.  As for pitching, our 6-7-8 starters are all developed (not the greatest day to talk up Lopez, but Cole looked good and there's that can't miss guy in Giolito working out some kinks).  You might say, where's the star position player, but then I look at Turner, who was a top 10 prospect, and I see system products at 1st, 3d, SS, and RF, plus Wilson, acquired as a minor leaguer.  If it weren't for Taylor taking a step back and Revere's fail, you wouldn't have Espinosa to kick around as a starter and Turner would be in his natural position.

There aren't a ton of teams with that many internally developed useful pieces.  We had enough depth in our system to trade for Melancon, too, while keeping a Glover and a Treinen around.  You could look at the Giants and say, beyond Posey (a high pick), Crawford, and Belt, how's their position player development?

Offline BrandonK

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Re: Following the Minor League Teams (2016)
« Reply #112: August 24, 2016, 12:13:49 PM »
Hey, I guess I'm looking at it the wrong way.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Following the Minor League Teams (2016)
« Reply #113: August 24, 2016, 03:40:16 PM »
Hey, I guess I'm looking at it the wrong way.
Is your point that we don't seem to see the 3 - 7th round types being developed into regular position players?  Guys taken with a relatively high pick who are less than sure things? 

Offline NJ Ave

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Re: Following the Minor League Teams (2016)
« Reply #114: August 24, 2016, 06:14:38 PM »
Going back to 2010, we've made 8 first round picks. 4 were position players, 4 were pitchers. 2 of the 4 were OF, 2 were IF. 2 of them turned into Bryce Harper and Anthony Rendon.

I'd imagine if you go through more rounds or to other teams, it would be the same - fairly balanced.

Thinking that we don't focus enough on position players may be true from year to year, but I don't know if there's evidence so suggest it's a long-term organizational failing.

Offline BrandonK

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Re: Following the Minor League Teams (2016)
« Reply #115: September 02, 2016, 02:48:52 PM »
P-Nats clinched a playoff spot

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Following the Minor League Teams (2016)
« Reply #116: September 04, 2016, 05:51:28 PM »
Nice evening weather-wise so came to the Pfitz to watch some future Nats. Or should I say future As?
Of course I have this big dude sitting in front of me with a Cards shirt. Can't get away from those buggers.

Offline BrandonK

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Re: Following the Minor League Teams (2016)
« Reply #117: September 06, 2016, 02:15:24 PM »
Chiefs did not make the playoffs (61-82)
Senators finished just outside of the playoffs; tied for the second seed, but I'm guessing tiebreakers went the other way (76-66)
P-Nats are in the playoffs! (39-31, 73-65 for the season)
Suns are in the playoffs! (40-30, 83-57 for the season)
Doubledays did not make the playoffs (28-47)
GCL Nats did not make the playoffs (30-23)
DSL Nats had a surprisingly bad season and did not make the playoffs (29-41)

Pretty good year for the org! Good luck to the P-Nats and Suns!

Offline RobDibblesGhost

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Re: Following the Minor League Teams (2016)
« Reply #118: September 09, 2016, 10:23:57 PM »
Chiefs did not make the playoffs (61-82)
Senators finished just outside of the playoffs; tied for the second seed, but I'm guessing tiebreakers went the other way (76-66)
P-Nats are in the playoffs! (39-31, 73-65 for the season)
Suns are in the playoffs! (40-30, 83-57 for the season)
Doubledays did not make the playoffs (28-47)
GCL Nats did not make the playoffs (30-23)
DSL Nats had a surprisingly bad season and did not make the playoffs (29-41)

Pretty good year for the org! Good luck to the P-Nats and Suns!


Both are done as of tonight :(

Offline BrandonK

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Re: Following the Minor League Teams (2016)
« Reply #119: September 10, 2016, 12:56:26 AM »
Both are done as of tonight :(

Yup :(

Was hoping for the Suns to at least get to 3 for a Ross rehab, but oh well. Great seasons!

Offline imref

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Offline BrandonK

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Re: Following the Minor League Teams (2016)
« Reply #121: September 16, 2016, 12:25:42 AM »
Quote
PEDRO AVILA
Hagerstown Suns – RHP – (Washington Nationals – Class-A)
5’11”/170, Age 19

It seemed as if Anderson Espinoza and the Greenville Drive roster took some initial attention away from Pedro Avila and the monster roster that the Hagerstown Suns started the season with. Avila put up some eye-popping stats as an 18-year-old in the Dominican Summer League in 2015, with 87 K in 59.2 IP. Before he was shut down in early August with an undisclosed injury, he had struck out nearly a batter an inning with a 3.48 ERA. When you consider his age and the competition he was up against, I believe he’s going to shoot up prospect boards this offseason. In 14 of his 20 starts this year he went at least 5 innings, and 13 of those 14 he allowed less than 3 ER. 2017 should bring a chance to debut for Potomac in the Carolina League, and give him an opportunity to shoot up prospect lists even further.

ANDREW LEE
Hagerstown Suns – RHP – (Washington Nationals Class-A)
6’5”/225, Age 22

If not for an early season injury that limited him to just 11 starts in 2016, I feel Andrew Lee would be on many end of season top 100 lists. Lee was a star for the Tennessee Vols on the mound and at the plate, where he slugged nine homers in his junior year. The 11th round pick quickly proved that the Nats picked the right position for him, carrying a 0.34 ERA into the last start of 2015. This year’s stats don’t necessarily tell the full story for Lee as an 8 ER outing against Lakewood poisoned the batch. In the other ten starts, he was downright dominant, although slightly age-advanced for the Sally League. Unlike some of the other prospects I feature whose ceilings lie as mid-performers in the bigs, Lee has true top-tier potential. Scouts might want to see some improvement in his consistency, but sometimes you need to be a bit more patient with a guy transitioning to focusing on just one position. Ideally, we’ll see him get 25 starts under his belt this year, most likely starting at High-A Potomac. As long as Andrew can stay healthy, he could post a 2017 stat line as vulgar as your favorite Billy Ripken card. White-out, what did you think I was talking about?

http://www.baseballranks.com/2016/09/15/5-deep-pitchers-that-may-shoot-up-the-rankings-in-2017/

Never heard of these guys

Offline BrandonK

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Re: Following the Minor League Teams (2016)
« Reply #122: October 14, 2016, 11:20:52 AM »
So we've gotta hope guys like Soto, Kieboom, and Robles pan out, otherwise, the farm is stupid thin on bats.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Following the Minor League Teams (2016)
« Reply #123: October 16, 2016, 12:19:46 PM »
Did anyone go to the AFL this year?

Offline BrandonK

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Re: Following the Minor League Teams (2016)
« Reply #124: October 16, 2016, 12:24:36 PM »
Did anyone go to the AFL this year?

http://www.wnff.net/index.php?topic=34456.0

I'll admit that I haven't been paying attention. Going to bump it now