Author Topic: Welcome home Brandon Phillips!!! . . . On 2d thought . . .  (Read 14232 times)

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Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Welcome home Brandon Phillips!!!
« Reply #125: December 18, 2015, 11:06:51 AM »
The more money the Reds take... the bigger the prospect haul. Scared it'll be Robles.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Welcome home Brandon Phillips!!!
« Reply #126: December 18, 2015, 11:08:38 AM »
I don't get the hate for Phillips. he'll be one of the better 2b we've probably ever had (yes, even at his age). its only for 2 years and add the fact that our new manager loves him. there's a lot more to like. we were gonna offer 200 mil for Heyward. this is 173 million less and not one cent comes out of our pockets (except at the beer line. but then you can spin it that its free beer! all you had to do was chip in for the players!). Plus, all the other guys you all want might not be attainable.
Some folks are saying, "why get Phillips when you had Yunel?"  Was it worth an extra $7MM this year, an extra $13 or $14MM or so next, plus undisclosed prospects, in order to get a reliever (Gott) and Phillips? 

I think the answer is that, yes, Phillips is worth the extra $7MM this year relative to Yunel.  He is likely to hit better (both may regress, but Yunel is likely to fall further from a career year even w/o considering age), but, even if you ignore the hitting, the defense including range is probably worth an extra game this year.  Escobar was going to play 2d this year, unless that did not work in which case he would have been at SS.  Phillips is at least a win better defensively at 2d; if Yunel were forced to play SS, an Escobar/ Espinosa combo instead of an Espinosa/ Phillips combo at SS & 2d may be more than a win worse. 

Tougher points for me is the impact on Turner's development. I assume that DE is not going to block him, but it does mean Turner breaks in at SS without the easier fallback to 2d.

Online varoadking

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Re: Welcome home Brandon Phillips!!!
« Reply #127: December 18, 2015, 11:12:05 AM »
Some folks are saying, "why get Phillips when you had Yunel?"  Was it worth an extra $7MM this year, an extra $13 or $14MM or so next, plus undisclosed prospects, in order to get a reliever (Gott) and Phillips? 

I think the answer is that, yes, Phillips is worth the extra $7MM this year relative to Yunel.  He is likely to hit better (both may regress, but Yunel is likely to fall further from a career year even w/o considering age), but, even if you ignore the hitting, the defense including range is probably worth an extra game this year.  Escobar was going to play 2d this year, unless that did not work in which case he would have been at SS.  Phillips is at least a win better defensively at 2d; if Yunel were forced to play SS, an Escobar/ Espinosa combo instead of an Espinosa/ Phillips combo at SS & 2d may be more than a win worse. 

Tougher points for me is the impact on Turner's development. I assume that DE is not going to block him, but it does mean Turner breaks in at SS without the easier fallback to 2d.

We still haven't added a bat...it's a push in that department, at best.  Still hope we sign Denard...

Offline Ray D

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Re: Welcome home Brandon Phillips!!!
« Reply #128: December 18, 2015, 11:12:08 AM »
Phillips seems like the answer to a problem the Nats don't have. The team needs a CF who won't strikeout 150 or 160 times and will need a LF.

Just because we need a centerfielder doesn't mean that Phillips answers a problem we don't have.  We have two problem (three if you count left field).  Phillips solves one, now move on to the second.
I guess it depends on whether you think Turner is ready; I don't.  We need a second baseman; Espinosa is going to start the season at shortsop.

And those of you (not you) who complain that we could have kept Escobar instead  - STOP!   Escobar was not going to play second. Period.  Nor shortstop, nor third.  He had no position here.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Welcome home Brandon Phillips!!!
« Reply #129: December 18, 2015, 11:12:56 AM »
Makes you question even more the plan on calling up Turner last year.

Online varoadking

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Re: Welcome home Brandon Phillips!!!
« Reply #130: December 18, 2015, 11:14:08 AM »
Just because we need a centerfielder doesn't mean that Phillips answers a problem we don't have.  We have two problem (three if you count left field).  Phillips solves one, now move on to the second.
I guess it depends on whether you think Turner is ready; I don't.  We need a second baseman; Espinosa is going to start the season at shortsop.

And those of you (not you) who complain that we could have kept Escobar instead  - STOP!   Escobar was not going to play second. Period.  Nor shortstop, nor third.  He had no position here.

Yunel fit this lineup better than Werth or Zimmmerman do.  The fact they have fat contracts continues to stunt the development of the team, causing for meh moves like this.

Offline Ray D

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Re: Welcome home Brandon Phillips!!!
« Reply #131: December 18, 2015, 11:14:54 AM »
Makes you question even more the plan on calling up Turner last year.
The plan was to install him as shortstop for the rest of the season to evaluate whether he would be ready at the start of 2016.   That was Rizzo's plan. Williams didn't go along.  Too bad.

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Re: Welcome home Brandon Phillips!!!
« Reply #132: December 18, 2015, 11:16:39 AM »
The plan was to install him as shortstop for the rest of the season to evaluate whether he would be ready at the start of 2016.   That was Rizzo's plan. Williams didn't go along. 

I don't know where you got that from...how do you know what Rizzo's plan for TT was...he's never stated one?  The Big Intern would have done what he was told.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Welcome home Brandon Phillips!!!
« Reply #133: December 18, 2015, 11:18:18 AM »
Makes you question even more the plan on calling up Turner last year.
well, if they really did not think he could take over the position early in 2016, then maybe it was all about pinch running. Would have rather seen them bring in Quintin Berry, but if they were anticipating Turner needing to have at least 2 months at AAA this year, then it would not affect years of control.  Still would impact super 2 status, but they blow that  off all the time.

Offline Ray D

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Re: Welcome home Brandon Phillips!!!
« Reply #134: December 18, 2015, 11:23:48 AM »
I don't know where you got that from...how do you know what Rizzo's plan for TT was...he's never stated one?  The Big Intern would have done what he was told.
Where I got it from?  I made it up of course.  But it is the only explanation that makes sense.  I don't think Rizzo is that stupid, despite what people here say about him.  I DO think that Williams is that stupid, I don't agree that he"would have done what he was told" and that's part (maybe a large part) of why he was fired.

Offline Ray D

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Re: Welcome home Brandon Phillips!!!
« Reply #135: December 18, 2015, 11:24:55 AM »
, then maybe it was all about pinch running.

There is just no way it was about pinch running. As i said in previous post, I refuse to accept that Rizzo is that stupid.

Online varoadking

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Re: Welcome home Brandon Phillips!!!
« Reply #136: December 18, 2015, 11:26:08 AM »
Where I got it from?  I made it up of course.  But it is the only explanation that makes sense.  I don't think Rizzo is that stupid, despite what people here say about him.  I DO think that Williams is that stupid, I don't agree that he"would have done what he was told" and that's part (maybe a large part) of why he was fired.

Williams would never have crossed Rizzo.  I, of course, made that up too...  ;)

Offline whytev

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Re: Welcome home Brandon Phillips!!!
« Reply #137: December 18, 2015, 11:33:30 AM »
Escobar had 7 errors last season. 7 errors in over 1000 innings. His defense was not really a problem, especially since he was hitting over .300.

Defense did not cost this team dearly last year. A crappy bullpen and having four of your top five hitters out for the majority of the season is what cost this team "dearly" last season.

But yes, let's pay 30 million for defense we could probably get for vet minimum.

It wasn't errors with Yunel. It was range. Zimmerman and Rendon took a lot of hits away at 3rd that Escobar never gets to.

Offline whytev

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Re: Welcome home Brandon Phillips!!!
« Reply #138: December 18, 2015, 11:35:44 AM »
It's whatever. Apparently no one truly gives a crap about having any money at the deadline in order to take on a contract and improve the lineup. So glad that Rizzo's plan is exactly the same as last year.

I agree with you on flexibility, but I believe we are still ahead of last year, financially.

Offline Ray D

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Re: Welcome home Brandon Phillips!!!
« Reply #139: December 18, 2015, 11:39:32 AM »
It wasn't errors with Yunel. It was range. Zimmerman and Rendon took a lot of hits away at 3rd that Escobar never gets to.
Making matters even worse, he played a very shallow third base, far more shallow than necessary, because he had a weak and inaccurate arm and didn't trust in his ability to make a long throw to first. 

Offline whytev

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Re: Welcome home Brandon Phillips!!!
« Reply #140: December 18, 2015, 11:41:02 AM »
The more money the Reds take... the bigger the prospect haul. Scared it'll be Robles.

He is untouchable.

Offline whytev

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Re: Welcome home Brandon Phillips!!!
« Reply #141: December 18, 2015, 11:45:21 AM »
I don't know where you got that from...how do you know what Rizzo's plan for TT was...he's never stated one?  The Big Intern would have done what he was told.

It makes perfect sense. You test drive a new car before you buy it. He got this guy to replace Desmond, and he wanted to see him.

Offline ExposFan87

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Re: Welcome home Brandon Phillips!!!
« Reply #142: December 18, 2015, 11:49:16 AM »
Really surprised at the reaction in this thread... [edit]

Brandon is a 3x All-Star and 4x Gold Glover. He's averaged ~80 RBI a season in Cincinnati and there was a time when he was Jose Vidro's heir apparent... of course this is before the foolhardy Omar Minaya traded him away.

My wife and I went to see him in AAA Ottawa back in 2002. He's a great guy. My wife still stays in touch.

My only concern with Brandon is come October, how he will fare in cold weather.

Offline Monarch

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Re: Welcome home Brandon Phillips!!!
« Reply #143: December 18, 2015, 11:52:08 AM »
Makes you question even more the plan on calling up Turner last year.

what we did last year before the season was over has nothing to do with this move.

Offline Five Banners

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Re: Welcome home Brandon Phillips!!!
« Reply #144: December 18, 2015, 11:54:03 AM »
Yes, the anti-Canada racism is pervading this thread and makes me want to weep openly.
( keep the trolling to non-banning levels, champ)

Offline Ray D

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Re: Welcome home Brandon Phillips!!!
« Reply #145: December 18, 2015, 11:59:37 AM »

My only concern with Brandon is come October, how he will fare in cold weather.

Yeah those blacks don't like the cold.  Who's the racist?

Offline mitlen

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Re: Welcome home Brandon Phillips!!!
« Reply #146: December 18, 2015, 11:59:48 AM »
Yes, the anti-Canada racism is pervading this thread and makes me want to weep openly.
( keep the trolling to non-banning levels, champ)

"anti-Canada racism"     :shrug:    What exactly is that?

Offline ExposFan87

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Re: Welcome home Brandon Phillips!!!
« Reply #147: December 18, 2015, 12:02:46 PM »
Yeah those blacks don't like the cold.  Who's the racist?

No, I meant Americans don't like the cold. We Canadians are built for it. Shame for you to jump to that conclusion.

Sorry.

Offline ExposFan87

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Re: Welcome home Brandon Phillips!!!
« Reply #148: December 18, 2015, 12:05:44 PM »
Yes, the anti-Canada racism is pervading this thread and makes me want to weep openly.
( keep the trolling to non-banning levels, champ)

It's refreshing to see a man who is not afraid to weep. I cry often. In Quebec, we have a saying, tears are saltier than water.

Offline BrandonK

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Re: Welcome home Brandon Phillips!!!
« Reply #149: December 18, 2015, 12:27:14 PM »
So it's Nick Lee +?

Nick Lee and Jefry Rodriguez wouldn't be too bad. I don't expect the Nat to send a top 20 prospect for him, unless the Reds really are eating money on the deal.

So, how long does Danny start at SS? Assuming he plays like he was at the beginning of last season, what do you do with Turner?