Author Topic: Zimmermann to Detroit - 5yrs, $110MM (Read 3961 times)

3bside · « **Reply #25:** November 30, 2015, 03:10:31 PM »

JZ basically got a push based on a middling year. If he pitched another season at a sub-3 ERA, he probably gets Lester money, but he also took the risk of blowing out his elbow.

NJ Ave · « **Reply #26:** November 30, 2015, 03:11:53 PM »

Quote from: 3bside on November 30, 2015, 03:10:31 PM

JZ basically got a push based on a middling year. If he pitched another season at a sub-3 ERA, he probably gets Lester money, but he also took the risk of blowing out his elbow.

Exactly. I'm just saying that I don't think it's wise for any SP to pitch a year in hopes of an extra 5% and no additional years of guaranteed money. That is not a good play.

So my guess is he hoped for a lot more than he got.

JCA-CrystalCity · « **Reply #27:** November 30, 2015, 03:54:46 PM »

NJ Ave - when you are talking about ending up with more money than was offered, that's better than a push. It's not the score he figured he'd get (lester money), but it is not like he left money on the table.

Ray D · « **Reply #28:** November 30, 2015, 04:23:05 PM »

Quote from: JCA-CrystalCity on November 30, 2015, 03:54:46 PM

when you are talking about ending up with more money than was offered, that's better than a push.

But he would have had the money a year earlier, wouldn't he? That counts for something.

mitlen · « **Reply #29:** November 30, 2015, 04:26:03 PM »

Z'nn and the Nats got what each wanted. He got rehab and a chance to make some money. We got a good pitcher for a few years who can and will be replaced.

NJ Ave · « **Reply #30:** November 30, 2015, 04:40:12 PM »

Quote from: JCA-CrystalCity on November 30, 2015, 03:54:46 PM

NJ Ave - when you are talking about ending up with more money than was offered, that's better than a push. It's not the score he figured he'd get (lester money), but it is not like he left money on the table.

If I buy into a poker table for $100 and leave with $105, I consider that a push. Maybe you don't, and I guess technically you're right.

But if he had a crystal ball, saw that after a year of pitching with a TJ-surgically repaired elbow he would only come away with an extra 4.8%, and decided to roll the dice he would just be a lucky fool.

Obviously the fact that Desmond is in the same position and it turned out far worse makes Zimmermann's outcome look better.

skippy1999 · « **Reply #31:** November 30, 2015, 04:44:15 PM »

Quote from: mitlen on November 30, 2015, 04:26:03 PM

Z'nn and the Nats got what each wanted. He got rehab and a chance to make some money. We got a good pitcher for a few years who can and will be replaced.

I really, really wanted Jordan to stay a Nat

Natsinpwc · « **Reply #32:** November 30, 2015, 04:45:59 PM »

Quote from: skippy1999 on November 30, 2015, 04:44:15 PM

I really, really wanted Jordan to stay a Nat

Me too. It seems the Nats did not really want to risk a long term contract on someone who has had TJ surgery and JZ appears to want to pitch closer to home.

mitlen · « **Reply #33:** November 30, 2015, 04:49:01 PM »

Quote from: skippy1999 on November 30, 2015, 04:44:15 PM

I really, really wanted Jordan to stay a Nat

I did too but apparently he didn't and we didn't want him.

aspenbubba · « **Reply #34:** November 30, 2015, 05:13:31 PM »

I also wanted Zim to stay but it seemed a foregone conclusion he wouldn't as virtually everyone on this board and the media thought he would leave. I just don't think we , and that is a collective we, have the whole story, certainly not from the FO viewpoint. And we know that we won't ever with this organization. I mean after 5 plus years you build friendships and get to know the city. And I don't think that small mouth bass fishing is all that great in the Detroit area or anything else for that matter. When you have that much money you can charter a jet and get back to Wisconsin in a few hours and fly friends and family here. I do feel liker a jilted lover as the money was so close.

PebbleBall · « **Reply #35:** November 30, 2015, 05:37:33 PM »

Why was the Zimmermann thread immediately locked? It only makes this thread more difficult to follow.

Ray D · « **Reply #36:** November 30, 2015, 05:43:04 PM »

Quote from: aspenbubba on November 30, 2015, 05:13:31 PM

I just don't think we , and that is a collective we, have the whole story,

I suspect the whole story isn't terribly complicated. The offer available to him prior to the season, I suspect was no longer available after the season, otherwise he'd have signed with us.
His homerun rate nearly doubled from in 2015 (same number of innings) and that is taken by some experts to be a reliable indication that his fastball has become hitable, and I'm guessing that that's what the Nats front office went by.

PebbleBall · « **Reply #37:** November 30, 2015, 06:03:11 PM »

Quote from: Ray D on November 30, 2015, 05:44:43 PM

Because he's no longer a National. Policy seems to be you can't have a thread about a player on another team. (I don't have a problem with that.)

It seems to muddle the offseason discussion when there was already a place to have reactions to the JZ deal, and the conversation in here is an extension of that thread.

whytev · « **Reply #38:** November 30, 2015, 06:54:23 PM »

Quote from: NJ Ave on November 30, 2015, 02:59:05 PM

I don't know that I agree he "won" the gamble. If you average out fWAR and rWAR for Jordan Zimmermann and David Price, Zimmerman was worth 5.1 WAR in 2014 and Price was worth 5.3 WAR. Zimmermann is a year younger.

Of course, David Price then had a 6.2 WAR season this year, while Jordan Zimmermann had a 3.3 WAR season. So Price is going to get $200 million or whatever and Zimmerman will get a little over half that.

I don't think there's a chance in hell Zimmermann didn't think a great year would get him less than $150-160 million. He just didn't have a great year. Obviously he didn't "lose" the gamble, but I think we can say he didn't "win" it either. He walked away from the table even, so hopefully he enjoyed some free drinks

He won the gamble. He bet on himself and underperformed, but not so badly that it cost him what we offered, so that's coming out ahead.

JCA-CrystalCity · « **Reply #39:** November 30, 2015, 08:15:34 PM »

Quote from: Ray D on November 30, 2015, 04:23:05 PM

But he would have had the money a year earlier, wouldn't he? That counts for something.

no. it was just the extension. same years

PC · « **Reply #40:** December 01, 2015, 09:53:29 AM »

http://m.tigers.mlb.com/news/article/158390022/tigers-sign-jordan-zimmermann

PC · « **Reply #41:** December 01, 2015, 09:55:07 AM »

Quote from: PC on December 01, 2015, 09:53:29 AM

http://m.tigers.mlb.com/news/article/158390022/tigers-sign-jordan-zimmermann

I'm so disturbed by this.

GburgNatsFan · « **Reply #42:** December 01, 2015, 10:24:26 AM »

So Zimm was salty because the Nats didn't think he was top of the rotation?

Hmmm.

Quote from: PC on December 01, 2015, 09:55:07 AM

I'm so disturbed by this.

The Chief · « **Reply #43:** December 01, 2015, 10:41:56 AM »

Well... alright then.

GburgNatsFan · « **Reply #44:** December 01, 2015, 10:43:55 AM »

It's definitely the major theme of that article. And it sort of corresponds with his attitude. It would explain a lot.

Quote from: The Chief on December 01, 2015, 10:41:56 AM

Well... alright then.

Natsinpwc · « **Reply #45:** December 01, 2015, 11:10:47 AM »

Quote from: GburgNatsFan on December 01, 2015, 10:43:55 AM

It's definitely the major theme of that article. And it sort of corresponds with his attitude. It would explain a lot.

I interpreted his comments as not being about the Nats at all and rather as compared to the other free agent pitchers this year. Greinke and Price. The Tigers targeted him rather than those guys. Think you all are reading too much into this. The Nats were off his list long ago. And he was off the Nats list.

Slateman · « **Reply #46:** December 01, 2015, 12:22:08 PM »

I don't see a whole lot of salt in those comments.

skippy1999 · « **Reply #47:** December 01, 2015, 12:28:51 PM »

Quote from: Slateman on December 01, 2015, 12:22:08 PM

I don't see a whole lot of salt in those comments.

Quote

One of the biggest things is that they had me as a No. 1 target," Zimmermann said. "I was a second and a third option for others. ... I knew what my value was

He's a quiet, reserved guy from Wisconsin so that's about as salty as he'd probably be in public but I definitely read that as him being miffed he wasn't viewed more highly by clubs, I would think that includes the Nats as well.

whytev · « **Reply #48:** December 01, 2015, 01:02:54 PM »

Quote from: skippy1999 on December 01, 2015, 12:28:51 PM

He's a quiet, reserved guy from Wisconsin so that's about as salty as he'd probably be in public but I definitely read that as him being miffed he wasn't viewed more highly by clubs, I would think that includes the Nats as well.

He far too nice a guy to say so publicly, but there is no way he was cool with playing 2nd fiddle to Strasburg despite being better in 2013 and 2014. Strasburg and him probably are fine with each other, and the former never asked for the glory and scrutiny that comes with being a prodigy, but this and other comments remind me that Zimmermann has a small-town sense of fairness. If you're better, you pitch opening day, first game back after the ASB, and first day of the playoffs. He was. He didn't. He wants to go where he is the ace. I respect that because where 2013-2014 are concerned, I agree with him.

GburgNatsFan · « **Reply #49:** December 01, 2015, 01:03:55 PM »

That's sort of what I was thinking. It's conjecture, but hey, that's what the offseason is for.

Quote from: whytev on December 01, 2015, 01:02:54 PM

He far too nice a guy to say so publicly, but there is no way he was cool with playing 2nd fiddle to Strasburg despite being better in 2013 and 2014. Strasburg and him probably are fine with each other, and the former never asked for the glory and scrutiny that comes with being a prodigy, but this and other comments remind me that Zimmermann has a small-town sense of fairness. If you're better, you pitch opening day, first game back after the ASB, and first day of the playoffs. He was. He didn't. He wants to go where he is the ace. I respect that because where 2013-2014 are concerned, I agree with him.