Author Topic: The ZDK Trade Proposal Extravaganza Thread To End All Threads #OhYeah  (Read 22513 times)

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Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Thinking you may want some Ritalin, too.

:)

Offline zimm_da_kid

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In al seriousness, what would the value of a package comprising Michael Taylor, Lucas Giolito, Victor Robles, Reynaldo Lopez, Wilmer Difo, and Erik Fedde be?  What would that get us and what would a package of similar value from another team be?

This is would be a trade with the #1 prospect in baseball, at least a top 50 one in Robles and possibly two more in the back end of the top 100 (Lopez and Fedde), a guy who likely falls in the 100-125 range, and a Michael Taylor, an elite defensive outfielder with reasonable power/speed upside and has control.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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In al seriousness, what would the value of a package comprising Michael Taylor, Lucas Giolito, Victor Robles, Reynaldo Lopez, Wilmer Difo, and Erik Fedde be?  What would that get us and what would a package of similar value from another team be?

This is would be a trade with the #1 prospect in baseball, at least a top 50 one in Robles and possibly two more in the back end of the top 100 (Lopez and Fedde), a guy who likely falls in the 100-125 range, and a Michael Taylor, an elite defensive outfielder with reasonable power/speed upside and has control.

Not as much as you'd think.  Giolito is most of the value.  Difo is not worth much at all.  Robles, Lopez, and Fedde are too far away to get a ton for them - especially Fedde, who's going to be 23, hasn't pitched above low-A, and has a serious arm injury in his past.  Robles is a great prospect, but there's too much uncertainty there: he's 18, and projecting 18-year-olds is an uncertain art.  Taylor will be 25 on Opening Day next year.  While it's possible he could turn into Carlos Gomez or Torii Hunter (who had similar early-career stats at the same age), it's also possible he turns into Luis Matos or Brian McRae, who were also pretty similar, or even Juan Lagares, who lacks the home run power but is otherwise similar. 

Offline Mattionals

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In al seriousness, what would the value of a package comprising Michael Taylor, Lucas Giolito, Victor Robles, Reynaldo Lopez, Wilmer Difo, and Erik Fedde be?  What would that get us and what would a package of similar value from another team be?

This is would be a trade with the #1 prospect in baseball, at least a top 50 one in Robles and possibly two more in the back end of the top 100 (Lopez and Fedde), a guy who likely falls in the 100-125 range, and a Michael Taylor, an elite defensive outfielder with reasonable power/speed upside and has control.

Why trade Giolito? No one is giving up what his value is expected to be. I see where you go with Taylor, but by trading him AND Robles, you have zero OF prospects.

My problem with your trades is that you are moving ALL the pieces. Look at successful franchises, they don't move all the pieces because I injuries and downturns happen. You need that depth to either call upon or fill out the roster as needed.

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Why trade Giolito? No one is giving up what his value is expected to be. I see where you go with Taylor, but by trading him AND Robles, you have zero OF prospects.

My problem with your trades is that you are moving ALL the pieces. Look at successful franchises, they don't move all the pieces because I injuries and downturns happen. You need that depth to either call upon or fill out the roster as needed.

trade for a controllable outfielder

Offline BrandonK

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Can this thread stop?

Offline tomterp

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lol! lets trade them our whole AAA franchise and add Pujouls, Joe Smith and CJ Wilson.

You forgot CJ Nitkowski too.

Offline Mattionals

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trade for a controllable outfielder

Why trade a controllable pitcher who projects as top of the rotation for a controllable outfielder? You aren't getting Trout, as there isn't a package that the Angels will take. Similar to there is no package the Nats will take for Bryce. This is deeper than a purely baseball decision. This is a business decision. Trout is the golden money ticket for the Angels, and Bryce is very much the same for the Nats. There isn't a package available that will give you similar production and similar dollars back.

Since you aren't getting Trout, name another outfielder, hell name another player, that you are actually willing to trade a guy with Giolito's upside for? Sure, he is a prospect and isn't proven, but if you potentially have the next Kershaw in your system, who are you realistically expecting back?

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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It took me until now to realize that the OP is serious and actually thinks those are good ideas. 

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Offline zimm_da_kid

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It took me until now to realize that the OP is serious and actually thinks those are good ideas. 

good thing I already realized I don't value your opinion

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Stephen Strasburg for Jose Bautista

1 for 1

both have one year left.

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Mike Rizzo to the Seattle Mariners for a bushel of dungeness crabs and some Columbia Valley chardonnay

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Mike Rizzo to the Seattle Mariners for a bushel of dungeness crabs and some Columbia Valley chardonnay

:clap:

Sanity.

Offline EdStroud

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Dusty Baker and a souvenir signed Bud Black contract for Dabo Swinney

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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good thing I already realized I don't value your opinion

That's nice.  Given the direction of the thread, I'm not sure too many other people are taking your ideas too seriously, either.  I've posted one of the very few honest responses to one of your thoughts, btw. Sorry to have been so flippant in some of the other replies, though.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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ZDK - what do you think of reply #27?

Offline zimm_da_kid

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ZDK - what do you think of reply #27?

Not as much as you'd think.  Giolito is most of the value.  Difo is not worth much at all.  Robles, Lopez, and Fedde are too far away to get a ton for them - especially Fedde, who's going to be 23, hasn't pitched above low-A, and has a serious arm injury in his past.  Robles is a great prospect, but there's too much uncertainty there: he's 18, and projecting 18-year-olds is an uncertain art.  Taylor will be 25 on Opening Day next year.  While it's possible he could turn into Carlos Gomez or Torii Hunter (who had similar early-career stats at the same age), it's also possible he turns into Luis Matos or Brian McRae, who were also pretty similar, or even Juan Lagares, who lacks the home run power but is otherwise similar. 

Giolito is incredibly valuable.  When was the last time a #1 prospect got traded other than Will Meyers?  I can't think of any #1 prospect pitchers being traded recently.  I think you undervalue Fedde, Lopez, and Robles.  Robles has an elite package and is ahead of the curve that similar aged, just out of high school guys are on.  He'll be a #40 something prospect this offseason.  Lopez value has gone down since it peaked late in the 2014 season, but the stuff is still there, he's not old, and will not be too far away (AA to start the year).  Jonathon Sickels actually still had him ranked #47 on hiss midseason prospect update, moving him up from #150 prior to the season.  He could be a lockdown late inning reliever later this season with closer upside, and still has an outside shot at being a mid rotation guy.  If he developed better control, he could be an ace, but that's a bit optimistic.  Fedde will be a fast riser.  He'll probably spend this upcoming season split between A+ and AA.  It's al about getting innings under his belt at this point.  So basically Lopez is not far away.  Neither is Fedde really.  Robles is, but his upside is significant enough to warrant the risk.  I also think Wilmer Difo is not worthless.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Giolito is incredibly valuable.  When was the last time a #1 prospect got traded other than Will Meyers?  I can't think of any #1 prospect pitchers being traded recently.  I think you undervalue Fedde, Lopez, and Robles.  Robles has an elite package and is ahead of the curve that similar aged, just out of high school guys are on.  He'll be a #40 something prospect this offseason.  Lopez value has gone down since it peaked late in the 2014 season, but the stuff is still there, he's not old, and will not be too far away (AA to start the year).  Jonathon Sickels actually still had him ranked #47 on hiss midseason prospect update, moving him up from #150 prior to the season.  He could be a lockdown late inning reliever later this season with closer upside, and still has an outside shot at being a mid rotation guy.  If he developed better control, he could be an ace, but that's a bit optimistic.  Fedde will be a fast riser.  He'll probably spend this upcoming season split between A+ and AA.  It's al about getting innings under his belt at this point.  So basically Lopez is not far away.  Neither is Fedde really.  Robles is, but his upside is significant enough to warrant the risk.  I also think Wilmer Difo is not worthless.

I agree that Giolito's very valuable, but "very valuable" is still a long way from being the main attraction for getting Mike Trout, which was the original supposition. I suppose if there was more to go with him in that package, maybe, but the Angels specifically are looking to compete now, and trading their best player wouldn't do it.  In the hypothetical world of trading this entire package for a single player, you'd need to be looking for a very valuable player on a non-contending team, preferably on a team-friendly long term contract (otherwise, why would you give up all the team control?).   That doesn't exist too many places, although perhaps Rizzo's old employer would be one - although that would turn Zimmerman into one hell of an overpaid pinch hitter.  As for the rest of the players, I don't disagree with your assertions about the players.  The problem is that most GMs place a high premium on major league readiness. 

Robles is a hell of a prospect.  He's also only going to turn 19 next season.  But he's also never been above short-season and low A.  There are a lot of players who hit well low in the minors and can't replicate that higher up.  And in some ways, his age is a disdvantage: with guys that young, teams sometimes worry about them filling out (which in this case they mean as a euphemism for "getting fat") too much.  Robles is rather far from being fat by any stretch of imagination, but Miguel Cabrera was also skinny at 19.  With Robles, you're basically asking how much a team would trade for a very high draft pick - the answer again is quite a bit, but not if they need help soon.  Lopez's value is pretty uncertain: he's one thing if you see him as a starter and another if you see him as a reliever.  Hard-throwing relievers with spotty control aren't that valuable; if the control is tolerable for a starter, you're talking Yordano Ventura, who may be a chameleon from one year to the next but is clearly a very valuable guy.  If he had more than one incredible season under his belt, that's one thing, but again there's uncertainty: possibility of a one-year wonder, possibility that he can't do what he did in the very low minors at a higher level (indeed, he was OK but not spectacular at high-A). Twenty-eight walks and 93 hits in 99 innings in high-A doesn't scream "major league ready" at any point this season to me.  Fedde I'll have to punt on a bit.  I don't have as great a sense of how other teams might see him.  He needs a lot of innings, and they need to be at higher levels.  If I'm a GM trading for prospects, I'm going to be hesitant to buy the upside on players who haven't at least shown it in high-A over a full season.  The jump from the lower levels is just too much to take for granted.  My view of Difo is based on seeing him as a utility guy.  I don't see him ever being more than a barely-adequate hitter in the majors.  He needs more at bats, which probably means high minors to start next year, as much as I wish he were ready. 

Offline BrandonK

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Offline zimm_da_kid

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I agree that Giolito's very valuable, but "very valuable" is still a long way from being the main attraction for getting Mike Trout, which was the original supposition. I suppose if there was more to go with him in that package, maybe, but the Angels specifically are looking to compete now, and trading their best player wouldn't do it.  In the hypothetical world of trading this entire package for a single player, you'd need to be looking for a very valuable player on a non-contending team, preferably on a team-friendly long term contract (otherwise, why would you give up all the team control?).   That doesn't exist too many places, although perhaps Rizzo's old employer would be one - although that would turn Zimmerman into one hell of an overpaid pinch hitter.  As for the rest of the players, I don't disagree with your assertions about the players.  The problem is that most GMs place a high premium on major league readiness. 

Robles is a hell of a prospect.  He's also only going to turn 19 next season.  But he's also never been above short-season and low A.  There are a lot of players who hit well low in the minors and can't replicate that higher up.  And in some ways, his age is a disdvantage: with guys that young, teams sometimes worry about them filling out (which in this case they mean as a euphemism for "getting fat") too much.  Robles is rather far from being fat by any stretch of imagination, but Miguel Cabrera was also skinny at 19.  With Robles, you're basically asking how much a team would trade for a very high draft pick - the answer again is quite a bit, but not if they need help soon.  Lopez's value is pretty uncertain: he's one thing if you see him as a starter and another if you see him as a reliever.  Hard-throwing relievers with spotty control aren't that valuable; if the control is tolerable for a starter, you're talking Yordano Ventura, who may be a chameleon from one year to the next but is clearly a very valuable guy.  If he had more than one incredible season under his belt, that's one thing, but again there's uncertainty: possibility of a one-year wonder, possibility that he can't do what he did in the very low minors at a higher level (indeed, he was OK but not spectacular at high-A). Twenty-eight walks and 93 hits in 99 innings in high-A doesn't scream "major league ready" at any point this season to me.  Fedde I'll have to punt on a bit.  I don't have as great a sense of how other teams might see him.  He needs a lot of innings, and they need to be at higher levels.  If I'm a GM trading for prospects, I'm going to be hesitant to buy the upside on players who haven't at least shown it in high-A over a full season.  The jump from the lower levels is just too much to take for granted.  My view of Difo is based on seeing him as a utility guy.  I don't see him ever being more than a barely-adequate hitter in the majors.  He needs more at bats, which probably means high minors to start next year, as much as I wish he were ready. 

I'll be droppin a fire response to this post at midnight. 

I'm busy at the moment.

Offline BrandonK

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I'll be droppin a fire response to this post at midnight. 

I'm busy at the moment.


Offline zimm_da_kid

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I agree that Giolito's very valuable, but "very valuable" is still a long way from being the main attraction for getting Mike Trout, which was the original supposition. I suppose if there was more to go with him in that package, maybe, but the Angels specifically are looking to compete now, and trading their best player wouldn't do it.  In the hypothetical world of trading this entire package for a single player, you'd need to be looking for a very valuable player on a non-contending team, preferably on a team-friendly long term contract (otherwise, why would you give up all the team control?).   That doesn't exist too many places, although perhaps Rizzo's old employer would be one - although that would turn Zimmerman into one hell of an overpaid pinch hitter.  As for the rest of the players, I don't disagree with your assertions about the players.  The problem is that most GMs place a high premium on major league readiness. 

Robles is a hell of a prospect.  He's also only going to turn 19 next season.  But he's also never been above short-season and low A.  There are a lot of players who hit well low in the minors and can't replicate that higher up.  And in some ways, his age is a disdvantage: with guys that young, teams sometimes worry about them filling out (which in this case they mean as a euphemism for "getting fat") too much.  Robles is rather far from being fat by any stretch of imagination, but Miguel Cabrera was also skinny at 19.  With Robles, you're basically asking how much a team would trade for a very high draft pick - the answer again is quite a bit, but not if they need help soon.  Lopez's value is pretty uncertain: he's one thing if you see him as a starter and another if you see him as a reliever.  Hard-throwing relievers with spotty control aren't that valuable; if the control is tolerable for a starter, you're talking Yordano Ventura, who may be a chameleon from one year to the next but is clearly a very valuable guy.  If he had more than one incredible season under his belt, that's one thing, but again there's uncertainty: possibility of a one-year wonder, possibility that he can't do what he did in the very low minors at a higher level (indeed, he was OK but not spectacular at high-A). Twenty-eight walks and 93 hits in 99 innings in high-A doesn't scream "major league ready" at any point this season to me.  Fedde I'll have to punt on a bit.  I don't have as great a sense of how other teams might see him.  He needs a lot of innings, and they need to be at higher levels.  If I'm a GM trading for prospects, I'm going to be hesitant to buy the upside on players who haven't at least shown it in high-A over a full season.  The jump from the lower levels is just too much to take for granted.  My view of Difo is based on seeing him as a utility guy.  I don't see him ever being more than a barely-adequate hitter in the majors.  He needs more at bats, which probably means high minors to start next year, as much as I wish he were ready. 

I'll have some better trades posted later.

Online HalfSmokes

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I'll have some better trades posted later.

Ian Desmond for Jason Heyward

Online Ray D

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Ian Desmond for Jason Heyward
Assuming Desmond accepts the QO; you know, if LaRussa were still with the Cards, I'd bet he'd do that trade.