Fire Dusty Baker!

[Briggs]

I felt Dusty needed to be released.  What bothers me is how it was handled.  The Lerners kept him around town for more than a week and then when Dusty returns to CA - they tell him he's nbot coming back.   They owed it to Dusty to tell him face to face. That is bush league ownership!

[MarquisDeSade]

I felt Dusty needed to be released.  What bothers me is how it was handled.  The Lerners kept him around town for more than a week and then when Dusty returns to CA - they tell him he's nbot coming back.   They owed it to Dusty to tell him face to face. That is bush league ownership!

I see you have less than 100 posts. You must be new to the Nubinals and completely unaware of how the Lerners operate. Did you miss the Bud Black fiasco?

[bluestreak]

Ron Gardenhire is probably who they should have hired but even he knew taking over the dumpster fire in Detroit was a better gig than getting dicked around by the Lerners. Again, the only person willing to take on this job is someone with nothing to lose that just wants one last paycheck. The Bud Black fiasco is going to make anyone with options give a hard pass.

I think that they could have gotten Gardenhire, but he had already been hired by the time it was announced Dusty wasn’t coming back. So they lost out on people because they waited too long. But if you’re firing people for losing in the playoffs, I’m not sure why you would go after Gardenhire.

The way they let Dusty go was loathsome. Im not sure what new info came up between Game 5 and Friday when they let him go. Dusty basically had to call Rizzo and ask if he needed to renew the lease on his apartment.

I know the general consensus on this board is that Dusty is a buffoon. But he is well respected among players and other coaches and managers. The Lerner’s treatment of him will definitely affect their ability to attract top talent.

[MarquisDeSade]

Sorry, I meant the Nats should have hired Gardenhire instead of Dusty after the Bud Black fiasco.

Agree with you on the rest but the Lerners and Rizzo have a history of non-communication and tone deafness that can’t be matched. See: Riggleman quitting over contract issues, Big Marine hiring and firing, Bud Black fiasco, letting Dusty hang out to dry. How they dealt with Dusty reminds me a lot of how the Mets fired Windmill Willie Randolph, one of my favorite managers. Just bad PR that could have been avoided if they had any class.

Dusty always struck me as a good players manager and a really sharp guy. He just trusted his guys too much for me and has always made bad BP and pitching decisions.

[OldChelsea]

I felt Dusty needed to be released.  What bothers me is how it was handled.  The Lerners kept him around town for more than a week and then when Dusty returns to CA - they tell him he's nbot coming back.   They owed it to Dusty to tell him face to face. That is bush league ownership!

The Saturday local talk shows on FM-106.7 really ripped the Lerners for their timing of this move - both on the matter of waiting a week to sack him (when it looked like a new deal was all-over-but-the-signing) but also the larger issue of Rizzo's contract expiring after next season (along with, of course, certain A-list players of ours).

[Ray D]

I'd like to know what held back all these Dusty supporters before the fateful decision.  It seems much of the fan clamor and recent press could have spoken louder much earlier than this past week.

Huh?  It was a done deal.  They had agreed to terms.  Why argue loudly for something that's going to happen no matter what.  The firing took me completely by surprise.

[aspenbubba]

I was curious about where Dustys salary was compared to other managers. I couldn't find much but according to one web site there were only six managers who made more. And some were much more. I don't believe we should say he was low-balled when it simply isn't true. 

[monkeyhit]

Hope the rest of Dusty's clown show got the Learner boot too. This should start tricking up from their boot to brain, once iy hits them that Rizzo did all this hiring  and now all these new contracts and jerseys with different names on them. Can't Wait o see who replaces, Henley, Lopes and Schu. Maddix may keep his job, considering it was the hitting that failed the club in the end. 

[slhubic]

so, yeah, I have a feeling he's gonna be fired.

[Mattionals]

I was curious about where Dustys salary was compared to other managers. I couldn't find much but according to one web site there were only six managers who made more. And some were much more. I don't believe we should say he was low-balled when it simply isn't true.

So it isn't mandatory for teams to publish manager salaries, but it's my guess is Dusty was middle of the road. Managers who came in unproven most likely are paid less. I think the outrage is his "storied career" and what he made in Cincinnati is why there is outrage by the media, along with Dusty already being a media darling. It comes down to the Nats gave him a chance and he took it. He wasn't getting a deal somewhere else and likely won't get another shot, so the money point is moot. No other team gave Dusty Baker a deal and therefore no one can complain about Baker being "underpaid".

[tzinc]

most nats players are upset about dusty being fired

it was idiotic to go into the playoffs without renewing dusty just another bs thing hanging over the players during the playoffs FOR NO REASON!!!

rumors that boras was involved i mean is he the real gm/president of this team after all

verlander and darvish are pitching in the world series we had gio starting lol

this is a dysfunctional team not signing relievers in the offseason and firing dusty in this gutless manner they will never amount to anything

how do you let an agent run your team enjoy another year of wieters ugh

[Mattionals]

most nats players are upset about dusty being fired

it was idiotic to go into the playoffs without renewing dusty just another bs thing hanging over the players during the playoffs FOR NO REASON!!!

rumors that boras was involved i mean is he the real gm/president of this team after all

verlander and darvish are pitching in the world series we had gio starting lol

this is a dysfunctional team not signing relievers in the offseason and firing dusty in this gutless manner they will never amount to anything

how do you let an agent run your team enjoy another year of wieters ugh

Read the article by Jon Heyman today. Anything other than ownership letting him walk because he wasn't able to get the team past the first round is wild speculation and utter horsecrap. The players shouldn't play worse because their "guy" doesn't have a contract. That is garbage. Gio pitched Game 5 because Dusty put him out there, and didn't pull him early enough because Dusty wanted him to "get out of it". Rizzo traded for three guys who locked down the bullpen even after signing Wieters. Although Wieters committed errors, how about no one on the coaching staff challenging the dead ball in Game 5?

There are no behind the scenes motives on this. Dusty was brought in to manage a dynamite team and get them  done the NLDS. He didn't do that and there are quite a few faults of his own why that didn't happen. Move on.

[Natsinpwc]

Read the article by Jon Heyman today. Anything other than ownership letting him walk because he wasn't able to get the team past the first round is wild speculation and utter horsecrap. The players shouldn't play worse because their "guy" doesn't have a contract. That is garbage. Gio pitched Game 5 because Dusty put him out there, and didn't pull him early enough because Dusty wanted him to "get out of it". Rizzo traded for three guys who locked down the bullpen even after signing Wieters. Although Wieters committed errors, how about no one on the coaching staff challenging the dead ball in Game 5?

There are no behind the scenes motives on this. Dusty was brought in to manage a dynamite team and get them  done the NLDS. He didn't do that and there are quite a few faults of his own why that didn't happen. Move on.

It's funny when posters claim they know things about Nats players attitudes--like they text with them all regularly.
You are correct; it's a tough profession.  They are not going to fire the players.  The owners are going nowhere.  Rizzo is safe but not forever.

[Slateman]

If they liked Dusty so much, maybe they should have hit their weight.

[Briggs]

I see you have less than 100 posts. You must be new to the Nubinals and completely unaware of how the Lerners operate. Did you miss the Bud Black fiasco?

On the contrary been going to game since 2005.  And my avatar and name "Brigg's" is an homage to the sponsors of the Washgington Senators.  I have no need to post my opinion very often.

[Ray D]

  And my avatar and name "Brigg's" is an homage to the sponsors of the Washgington Senators. 

Should be "National Boh"!
Avatar looks like Wilkins and Wontkins.  Was Wilkins coffee a sponsor? I don't recall that.

[MtPleasantNatsFan]

It's funny when posters claim they know things about Nats players attitudes--like they text with them all regularly.
...

Do you go out to talk to players each season?  I make a point of talking to as many players as possible.  7-8 years ago I talked to a player who I don't really want to name, and he was very open, I asked him, "So is this the best team you've played on?" and he just looks down and says, "No, [my last team] were a much tighter team and we got to go all the way to the WS."  And he didn't seem to have any problem with giving me real answers about the Nats flaws.  I mean he was no Christian Guzman or John Lannan, but he was on the team. 

I don't pretend to speak for them, but to suggest that it's impossible to talk to them... you just haven't maximized your friends in the  organization.  I remember when Terrance Briscoe saw me with my kids at a Nats Fest and just said, "Oh I know you guys!" 

I don't expect to talk to Werth or Harper, but I've had decent conversations with Fister, Suzuki, Clippard, Storen, etc.

[welch]

Should be "National Boh"!
Avatar looks like Wilkins and Wontkins.  Was Wilkins coffee a sponsor? I don't recall that.

My earliest memory is National Boh, and the surrealistic "Draw one" TV commercial. Heurich's Beer sponsored the Nats before Boh; they were a good beer before "old man" Christian Heurich died in the late '40s. By the early '50s, Heurich's Old Georgetown Beer was nicknamed "Old River-bottom".

Given this dead-time before Spring Training, it's a good time to read Bob Wolff's account of doing beer commercials on live TV between innings. "It's Not Who Won or Lost the Game - It's How You Sold the Beer!" , https://www.amazon.com/Its-Not-Who-Lost-Game/dp/1888698004/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1509201836&sr=8-3&keywords=bob+wolff

[Natsinpwc]

Do you go out to talk to players each season?  I make a point of talking to as many players as possible.  7-8 years ago I talked to a player who I don't really want to name, and he was very open, I asked him, "So is this the best team you've played on?" and he just looks down and says, "No, [my last team] were a much tighter team and we got to go all the way to the WS."  And he didn't seem to have any problem with giving me real answers about the Nats flaws.  I mean he was no Christian Guzman or John Lannan, but he was on the team. 

I don't pretend to speak for them, but to suggest that it's impossible to talk to them... you just haven't maximized your friends in the  organization.  I remember when Terrance Briscoe saw me with my kids at a Nats Fest and just said, "Oh I know you guys!" 

I don't expect to talk to Werth or Harper, but I've had decent conversations with Fister, Suzuki, Clippard, Storen, etc.

I was responding to a poster who said that the majority of players were upset with Dusty being fired. He really had no idea and gleaned something from an article and interpreted it to fit his views.

Glad you have been able to meet and have chats with some players over the years.

[Mattionals]

I was responding to a poster who said that the majority of players were upset with Dusty being fired. He really had no idea and gleaned something from an article and interpreted it to fit his views.

Glad you have been able to meet and have chats with some players over the years.

I think it was a little confusing since you quoted me, but were calling out who I quoted about knowing that the players were upset with Dusty not being renewed.

[Natsinpwc]

I think it was a little confusing since you quoted me, but were calling out who I quoted about knowing that the players were upset with Dusty not being renewed.

Ok. Sorry about that.

[Mattionals]

Ok. Sorry about that.

No worries! I re-read what you posted and knew what you were going for.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

Amazing what kind of reputation someone can build with only one League pennant and zero WS trophies in 22 seasons.

[imref]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/dusty-baker-made-his-own-sort-of-peace-with-nationals-firing-and-still-doesnt-care-what-you-think/2018/04/02/8a2067b8-3683-11e8-8fd2-49fe3c675a89_story.html

Most interesting passage:

“He sounded like it was one of the hardest things he had to do,” Baker said of Rizzo. “So I didn’t ask for an explanation. What good is an explanation at that time?”

The tone in Rizzo’s voice led Baker to suspect the firing was not the GM’s call, but that the decision had been made by the Lerner family that owns the Nationals — a theory others have espoused. He said the only time he heard from ownership was when a note arrived in the mail from managing principal owner Ted Lerner thanking him for his two years of service to the franchise. Asked if the note said anything else, Baker says, “I don’t remember.”

But Baker also recalled a conversation that occurred when he was interviewing for the job in the fall of 2015 that made the firing last fall seem less shocking. According to Baker, the Nationals presented him with a scenario in which he would groom a bench coach to be his successor after two seasons. The team offered some suggested candidates: Andy Green, Tim Wallach, Phil Nevin. Baker, he recalled hearing, “would teach [the coach] everything I know, and after two years they would take over.”

Baker instead fought for his longtime right-hand man Chris Speier to be his bench coach, but after Baker was fired as manager two years later, Speier didn’t even get an interview for the job. Following a thorough search, the managing job instead went to Dave Martinez, a longtime lieutenant to Joe Maddon in Tampa Bay and Chicago.

[Natsinpwc]

Why would they give Speier an interview? He seemed useless. Is he coaching with anyone?