Author Topic: Fire Dusty Baker!  (Read 51378 times)

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Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Fire Dusty Baker! (2015-2016)
« Reply #50: November 03, 2015, 09:16:31 AM »

Offline RobDibblesGhost

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Re: Fire Dusty Baker! (2015-2016)
« Reply #51: November 03, 2015, 09:18:26 AM »


Well, if we get a good coaching staff, that might take some of the sting of this move off, but I won't believe it until I see it. I hope these guys are willing to work on the cheap.

Offline madj55

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Re: Fire Dusty Baker! (2015-2016)
« Reply #52: November 03, 2015, 09:23:48 AM »
Well, expect Strasburg and Scherzer to throw 230 innings each next year.  Maybe that is a good thing if you think this team has a very short horizon and you want to go full Mets now.  But you can bet that Scherzer gets a sore arm before the end of his contract because there is no way Dusty is going to force Scherzer to save bullets and rest when he needs to.

He managed Kent and Bonds.  Maybe he can manage Papelbon and Bryce.

Speaking of Bryce, this crud about him being able manage superstars makes me wonder if this guy will become Bryce binky.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=13948

"To the extent you’re using the “oh no, Dusty is going to destroy pitchers” line of attack on him, you’re about a decade out of date."

http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2015/11/03/its-official-dusty-baker-is-the-new-nationals-manager/

Offline imref

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Re: Fire Dusty Baker! (2015-2016)
« Reply #53: November 03, 2015, 09:24:14 AM »
+1. 

this team had the best record in the NL twice in the last 4 years but lost in the division series because of poor management of the pitching staff and poor decisions on the bullpen.  What has Baker done over his entire managing career to give the Nationals confidence he can address this problem? 

I looked up Dusty's most recent managerial record.  In 2013 three Cincy staters went over 200 innings: Latos (210), Bailey (209), and Arroyo (202)

In 2012, the same three threw about the same number of innings Latos (209), Bailey (208), and Arroyo (202), plus Cueto threw 217.  Leake threw 179.

In 2011, Arroyo (199), Leake (167 - 29 starts).  Nobody else made more than 25 starts.

For comparison (30 or more starts):
- 2015 Nats: Scherzer (228), JZ (201), Gio (175)
- 2014 Padres: Kennedy (201), Ross (195), Stults (176)

I don't see that Baker's handling of pitchers was out of line.

Offline Kevrock

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Re: Fire Dusty Baker! (2015-2016)
« Reply #54: November 03, 2015, 09:25:30 AM »
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=13948

"To the extent you’re using the “oh no, Dusty is going to destroy pitchers” line of attack on him, you’re about a decade out of date."

http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2015/11/03/its-official-dusty-baker-is-the-new-nationals-manager/

Ha, was looking for this article as well. Madj posted this during the pitching search and it turned me around on Dusty from a pitching perspective. Nice

Offline R-Zim#11

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Re: Fire Dusty Baker! (2015-2016)
« Reply #55: November 03, 2015, 09:27:04 AM »


Will they work at a discount? Otherwise...

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Fire Dusty Baker! (2015-2016)
« Reply #56: November 03, 2015, 09:27:07 AM »
So, here's my question - did Rizzo and Black never discuss the actual contract details or did they have an agreement in place but the Lerners said "too much; offer him a one year deal with options."

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Fire Dusty Baker! (2015-2016)
« Reply #57: November 03, 2015, 09:29:33 AM »
So, here's my question - did Rizzo and Black never discuss the actual contract details or did they have an agreement in place but the Lerners said "too much; offer him a one year deal with options."

I wouldn't be surprised if Rizzo and Black agreed he'd be the manager and left those details to be ironed out later- there seems to be a framework for manager pay, and I'm guessing this usually isn't a sticking point. The offer to black was so far outside of what an experienced manager would get (in terms of years and AAV) that it scuttled the deal

Offline BrandonK

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Re: Fire Dusty Baker! (2015-2016)
« Reply #58: November 03, 2015, 09:38:16 AM »
How much is Baker making? Has to be more than a TV deal?

Offline HattoriHanzo

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Re: Fire Dusty Baker! (2015-2016)
« Reply #59: November 03, 2015, 09:42:30 AM »
Ha, was looking for this article as well. Madj posted this during the pitching search and it turned me around on Dusty from a pitching perspective. Nice

I'd like to see numbers up until 2013 when he was canned. 

Offline NationalHeat

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Re: Fire Dusty Baker! (2015-2016)
« Reply #60: November 03, 2015, 09:44:05 AM »
I'd like to see numbers up until 2013 when he was canned.

Theres a graph in the article.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Fire Dusty Baker! (2015-2016)
« Reply #61: November 03, 2015, 09:44:35 AM »
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=13948

"To the extent you’re using the “oh no, Dusty is going to destroy pitchers” line of attack on him, you’re about a decade out of date."

http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2015/11/03/its-official-dusty-baker-is-the-new-nationals-manager/
Thanks.  Read the article.  Note that it was written in May 2011.  I look at Imref's post right after that and see 4 guys throwing 200 innings and a 5th throwing 180 in 2012 and think that's some indication of a willingness to push starters too hard.  I said expect Scherzer and Stras to throw 230 innings next year, which might not be a bad thing short term, because of pattern of throwing a lot of starters deep.  Scherzer went 228 this year, without much objection from Williams, so I don't see Baker as putting his foot down on the brake on that.  Stras has gone over 200 innings in 2014, so I expect him to throw more, barring a health problem.  Cueto's use is a better comp that Arroyo and Harang because Strasburg is more of an ace type than an innings eater like those other guys.  Basically, Dusty threw Cueto when he was healthy.  Not expecting an injury, knowing Stras is in his year before walking, 230 would not surprise me. 

I don't see that Baker's handling of pitchers was out of line.
Look at those innings for 3d starters.  Whatever happened to Leake, Bailey, and Latos?  Would you give him the keys to Giolito? 

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: Fire Dusty Baker! (2015-2016)
« Reply #62: November 03, 2015, 09:47:33 AM »
Or "Too long; the Old Man is old and wants a pennant, and we want to be able to make a change."

So, here's my question - did Rizzo and Black never discuss the actual contract details or did they have an agreement in place but the Lerners said "too much; offer him a one year deal with options."

Offline HattoriHanzo

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Re: Fire Dusty Baker! (2015-2016)
« Reply #63: November 03, 2015, 09:47:57 AM »
Theres a graph in the article.

I don't see a graph up to 2013.  It ends at 2011 as is when the article was written.

Offline imref

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Re: Fire Dusty Baker! (2015-2016)
« Reply #64: November 03, 2015, 09:51:12 AM »
Look at those innings for 3d starters.  Whatever happened to Leake, Bailey, and Latos?  Would you give him the keys to Giolito? 

Leake threw 214 in 2014 (after Baker was gone) and 192 this year.  Bailey and Latos have battled injuries, but it's impossible to pin them on Baker over-using them.  I don't think his use of those guys was out of line.  Latos has only twice thrown 200+ innings in a  season.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Fire Dusty Baker! (2015-2016)
« Reply #65: November 03, 2015, 09:59:49 AM »
Leake threw 214 in 2014 (after Baker was gone) and 192 this year.  Bailey and Latos have battled injuries, but it's impossible to pin them on Baker over-using them.  I don't think his use of those guys was out of line.  Latos has only twice thrown 200+ innings in a  season.
Leake may have gotten in the innings, but how was the quality? Has he developed like the high pick he was?  he's basically a 4 FIP mediocrity now.

Offline stoneghost28

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Re: Fire Dusty Baker! (2015-2016)
« Reply #66: November 03, 2015, 10:26:41 AM »
Truly incompetent franchise in terms of everything save player acquisition. Rizzo thinks putting Stras, Giolito, Fedde, and Lopez's arms in the hands of Dusty "I have tattoo's of Mark Prior's, and Kerry Wood's career tombstone's on my bicep" Baker, Rizzo/Lerner's have officially gone insane. Total joke of a franchise, time to pay attention to "cough" caps, Boulez, and redskins. Who would have guessed a year ago? Those 3 would be better run?!?!?!

Offline The Chief

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Re: Fire Dusty Baker! (2015-2016)
« Reply #67: November 03, 2015, 11:02:01 AM »
All I can do is laugh.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Fire Dusty Baker! (2015-2016)
« Reply #68: November 03, 2015, 11:07:13 AM »

Offline Slateman

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Re: Fire Dusty Baker! (2015-2016)
« Reply #69: November 03, 2015, 11:07:51 AM »
All I can do is laugh.
Laugh until you cry

Offline BeltwayBaseball

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Re: Fire Dusty Baker! (2015-2016)
« Reply #70: November 03, 2015, 11:12:29 AM »
freak the Lerners.

Please, please, please let Mike & Greg Maddux come to Washington to save our pitching. Baker is going to make Matt Williams look truly masterful indeed as Rizzo said. You guys know that Baker was Matt Williams' major managerial influence, right? He talked about it all the time from his days as a Giant.

Offline JMW IV

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Re: Fire Dusty Baker! (2015-2016)
« Reply #71: November 03, 2015, 11:13:36 AM »
freak is this crap, rizzo.

dusty baker? really?

Offline HattoriHanzo

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Re: Fire Dusty Baker! (2015-2016)
« Reply #72: November 03, 2015, 11:19:22 AM »
freak the Lerners.

Please, please, please let Mike & Greg Maddux come to Washington to save our pitching. Baker is going to make Matt Williams look truly masterful indeed as Rizzo said. You guys know that Baker was Matt Williams' major managerial influence, right? He talked about it all the time from his days as a Giant.

Highly doubt Greg Maddux is going to DC.  I saw him moving back into his house.  Probably wants to take some time off and watch his son play for unlv. 

Offline houston-nat

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Re: Fire Dusty Baker! (2015-2016)
« Reply #73: November 03, 2015, 11:28:11 AM »
freak is this crap, rizzo.

dusty baker? really?
Not Rizzo's choice. Rumor is he's not happy.

Offline HattoriHanzo

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Re: Fire Dusty Baker! (2015-2016)
« Reply #74: November 03, 2015, 11:55:27 AM »
Not Rizzo's choice. Rumor is he's not happy.

Was Rizzo's first choice Black or one of the many people that were interviewed?  It appears that when it was said that experience was important that they really meant it and really wasted a bunch of people's times for a job interview that they had no chance getting.  I really wanted one of the up and comers in the league to get a shot even though I was not happy with Williams. I still think Wotus, Wakamatsu, or Martinez still would have been a much better hire than Williams or Baker.  Maybe not as good in year 1, but in the long run it would have been the wiser choice.