Author Topic: Fire Dusty Baker!  (Read 64261 times)

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Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Re: Fire Dusty Baker!
« Reply #1400: October 20, 2017, 02:02:35 PM »
The more I think about this the more enraged I am.  I’m reading (and I believe it) that Rizzo was against this move.  Rizzo is a man I trust.  If Rizzo had been behind it, I wouldn’t be happy but I would at least be comfortable that it was a rational decision and that they had some idea of who’s available and who they like among them. 

What could possibly be the Lerner’s rational reason?  Didn’t win a playoff series and that’s it?  Seriously, how does the decision making work among the Lerners. Serious question, anyone know?  Was it solely a decision from that senile old man?  What the freak basis does he have for such a decision.  I doubt that it was Mark, because honestly I think he’s smarter than that.

All of a sudden, right now, it’s hard for me to look forward to Spring.


He got as far as he’s gotten in the past 15 years, the owners aren’t satisfied with that and they shouldn’t be. For everyone thinking we lost a great manager, let’s see how many teams fall over themselves trying to hire him

Offline tenken627

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Re: Re: Fire Dusty Baker!
« Reply #1401: October 20, 2017, 02:06:24 PM »
Schottenheimer?

Wait wait wait. You are naming another coach who has a horrible playoff record and never won a championship after coaching multiple teams for decades?

Offline wpa2629

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Re: Re: Fire Dusty Baker!
« Reply #1402: October 20, 2017, 02:09:16 PM »
Dusty did an amazing job during the regular season, particularly with all the injuries. But winning 97 games and exiting in the first round is just not good enough

Putting Gio back out for the third inning
Not pinch hitting for Weiters with Kendrick, just to double switch him the next inning
Fine with the Max decision, but I pull him after the 2 run double and put in Albers in to finish off that inning and the 6th - (oh and freak off Jerry Layne you incompetent jerk)
Solis for the 7th, when it should have been Kintzler

Just too many questionable decisions

Offline Slateman

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Re: Re: Fire Dusty Baker!
« Reply #1403: October 20, 2017, 02:13:23 PM »
The more I think about this the more enraged I am.  I’m reading (and I believe it) that Rizzo was against this move.  Rizzo is a man I trust.  If Rizzo had been behind it, I wouldn’t be happy but I would at least be comfortable that it was a rational decision and that they had some idea of who’s available and who they like among them. 

What could possibly be the Lerner’s rational reason?  Didn’t win a playoff series and that’s it?  Seriously, how does the decision making work among the Lerners. Serious question, anyone know?  Was it solely a decision from that senile old man?  What the freak basis does he have for such a decision.  I doubt that it was Mark, because honestly I think he’s smarter than that.

All of a sudden, right now, it’s hard for me to look forward to Spring.


Rizzo didn't want to sign him in the first place. Now he won't get rid of a guy who clearly cannot manage in modern baseball. Rizzo might suffer from the same problem as Dusty: Too loyal.

The Learner's rationale is simple: Dusty can't win in the playoffs. We have multiple years of this. Joe Maddon managed circles around him this year, taking an inferior team to the NLCS. The Learners apparently want to win in the postseason. So they got rid of the biggest impediment to that.

Online bluestreak

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Re: Re: Fire Dusty Baker!
« Reply #1404: October 20, 2017, 02:17:33 PM »
Wait wait wait. You are naming another coach who has a horrible playoff record and never won a championship after coaching multiple teams for decades?

I’m saying the teams he coached didn’t win championships after they let him go either. And most didn’t even make the playoffs.

Wasn’t that the example that was asked for.

Offline tenken627

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Re: Re: Fire Dusty Baker!
« Reply #1405: October 20, 2017, 02:24:36 PM »
I’m saying the teams he coached didn’t win championships after they let him go either. And most didn’t even make the playoffs.

Wasn’t that the example that was asked for.

You are right. Its just that Schottenheimer had so many years and chances with each team except that 1 year with the Skins. Like 5 years+ with each team..

Offline NatsAllThe Way

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Re: Re: Fire Dusty Baker!
« Reply #1406: October 20, 2017, 02:39:46 PM »
Buddy Bell!

Offline tenken627

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Re: Re: Fire Dusty Baker!
« Reply #1407: October 20, 2017, 02:58:32 PM »
From 2014. Before he was even with the Nats.

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a-bit-outside/story/nine-of-the-worst-postseason-managerial-decisions-101214

Nine of the worst postseason managerial decisions

Dusty Baker: a lifetime achievement award

The baseball crimes of Dusty Baker run deep. He’s considered a players’ manager, one who is loyal to his guys to a fault, which makes him prone to mistakes when it comes to the 7-10 p.m. portion of his job. He gave Neifi Perez 609 plate appearances once while he was sporting an on-base percentage that was sub-.300. It wasn’t a good look.

He’s had three high-profile collapses in the playoffs with three different teams. Baker’s work with the Giants and the Cubs features two of the biggest meltdowns in baseball history. Baker’s most famous gaffe involves the decision to take Russ Ortiz out of Game Six of the 2002 World Series when Ortiz was coasting to the finish line. The Giants were up 5-0 in the seventh in Game Six with the title in sight when Baker called for Felix Rodriguez to finish what Russ Ortiz started. The Giants did what no other baseball team in the 100-plus-year history of Major League Baseball had ever done that night: They blew a five-run lead in a potential World Series clinching game. Baker’s decision to go to the bullpen in that game has to be counted among the biggest World Series mistakes in baseball history. —Mauricio Rubio

Online bluestreak

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Re: Re: Fire Dusty Baker!
« Reply #1408: October 20, 2017, 03:01:06 PM »
From 2014. Before he was even with the Nats.

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a-bit-outside/story/nine-of-the-worst-postseason-managerial-decisions-101214

Nine of the worst postseason managerial decisions

Dusty Baker: a lifetime achievement award

The baseball crimes of Dusty Baker run deep. He’s considered a players’ manager, one who is loyal to his guys to a fault, which makes him prone to mistakes when it comes to the 7-10 p.m. portion of his job. He gave Neifi Perez 609 plate appearances once while he was sporting an on-base percentage that was sub-.300. It wasn’t a good look.

He’s had three high-profile collapses in the playoffs with three different teams. Baker’s work with the Giants and the Cubs features two of the biggest meltdowns in baseball history. Baker’s most famous gaffe involves the decision to take Russ Ortiz out of Game Six of the 2002 World Series when Ortiz was coasting to the finish line. The Giants were up 5-0 in the seventh in Game Six with the title in sight when Baker called for Felix Rodriguez to finish what Russ Ortiz started. The Giants did what no other baseball team in the 100-plus-year history of Major League Baseball had ever done that night: They blew a five-run lead in a potential World Series clinching game. Baker’s decision to go to the bullpen in that game has to be counted among the biggest World Series mistakes in baseball history. —Mauricio Rubio

Wait? I thought the knock against Dusty was that he left pitchers in too long?

Offline tenken627

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Re: Re: Fire Dusty Baker!
« Reply #1409: October 20, 2017, 03:04:47 PM »
Wait? I thought the knock against Dusty was that he left pitchers in too long?

The knock is he doesnt know what to do with pitchers period.

Look. I apologize to harp on the guy while he is down. I'm not saying he's stupid or a bad guy. I just think that he's a very gut-action/emotional oriented guy with regards to his players that hurts the overall team. Thats why players love him, and he was the necessary remedy after the Matt Williams fiasco which tore the team apart.

And he's not exactly placing players over the team, just that the ratio is skewed enough that his emotional/gut-action orientation leads to non-beneficial decision making when those decisions count for a lot. The results are there.

Online bluestreak

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Re: Re: Fire Dusty Baker!
« Reply #1410: October 20, 2017, 03:24:55 PM »
Rizzo didn't want to sign him in the first place. Now he won't get rid of a guy who clearly cannot manage in modern baseball. Rizzo might suffer from the same problem as Dusty: Too loyal.

The Learner's rationale is simple: Dusty can't win in the playoffs. We have multiple years of this. Joe Maddon managed circles around him this year, taking an inferior team to the NLCS. The Learners apparently want to win in the postseason. So they got rid of the biggest impediment to that.

 :hysterical:

Literally no one said this.

Online bluestreak

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Re: Re: Fire Dusty Baker!
« Reply #1411: October 20, 2017, 03:26:19 PM »
He got as far as he’s gotten in the past 15 years, the owners aren’t satisfied with that and they shouldn’t be. For everyone thinking we lost a great manager, let’s see how many teams fall over themselves trying to hire him

If Dusty were 55, he’d have a job tomorrow.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Re: Fire Dusty Baker!
« Reply #1412: October 20, 2017, 03:34:16 PM »
If Dusty were 55, he’d have a job tomorrow.

But he’s not

Offline Ray D

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Re: Re: Fire Dusty Baker!
« Reply #1413: October 20, 2017, 03:49:50 PM »
The signature on this letter sure is interesting.

Quote
Dear Nationals fans,

Thirteen seasons ago, when baseball returned to D.C., we envisioned passionate fans at Nationals Park every night cheering on the hometown team. Your energy until the very end of this year’s National League Division Series filled us with pride as we reflected on how far our team and our fanbase have come. As our organization has developed into a perennial contender, you’ve stood by our side -- cheering our successes, keeping us honest in our approach to improvement, and celebrating with us as we’ve captured four NL East Division titles in the last six seasons.

Together, we’ve brought competitive, winning baseball back to Washington with a passionate fanbase that every team in the Major Leagues would be proud to call its own. More than anything, we want to share with you the elation of the final out going in our favor, when we can finally bring a championship home to Washington. That “One Pursuit” is the core driving force behind everything we do, from the first day of Spring Training to the last out of the final game.

Even though this ultimately wasn’t our season, we remain devoted to that cause. In further pursuit of that goal, we have decided to make a change in leadership and begin the process of finding a new manager. This was an incredibly difficult decision for us. Dusty Baker led the team to the first back-to-back division titles in our history and represented our club with class on and off the field. He is one of the true gentleman in our sport, and we thank him for the successes that we enjoyed together over the last two years. We wish him nothing but the best going forward.

To all of you who came to see us at Nationals Park this year, and to the millions more who experienced our games on television, radio, or your mobile devices, we thank you from the bottom of our hearts. You are the lifeblood of our organization, and you give us a reason to strive for greatness each night. Your enthusiasm and shared love of the Nationals has not gone unnoticed. And deep down, we know that one day soon we will all line the streets of our great city together as we celebrate reaching our ultimate goal.

Thank you for your unwavering, passionate support. We can’t wait to see you at Spring Training in West Palm Beach and on Opening Day at Nationals Park April 5.

Sincerely,
NNationals acquire INF/OF Howie Kendrick






Offline skippy1999

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Re: Re: Fire Dusty Baker!
« Reply #1414: October 20, 2017, 03:50:53 PM »
If Dusty were 55, he’d have a job tomorrow.

I agree but I think that's why they let him go-they want to find a manager who can be with us for the next decade, I don't think they think that person is going to be 68 years old you know?

Offline welch

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Re: Re: Fire Dusty Baker!
« Reply #1415: October 20, 2017, 04:02:37 PM »
A blunder.

Offline Ray D

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Re: Re: Fire Dusty Baker!
« Reply #1416: October 20, 2017, 04:09:35 PM »
I agree but I think that's why they let him go-they want to find a manager who can be with us for the next decade,
I'm sorry but that just doesn't make sense.   You want to establish continuity, fine, I understand that.  So you accomplish that by destroying the existing continuity? Dusty could have gone another 3 years, probably at the same pace (you don't age significantly between 68 and 71; by that I mean, whatever your state of aging at 71 you've piled most of that up by 68).  Then you'd have a solid 5 years of continuity.  Then start looking for your Manager for a Decade.
Instead, we fire Dusty (and please everyone - not you Skippy - stop telling me he wasn't fired;  he was fired!) destroying that chance of continuity with no realistic hope of re-establishing it.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Re: Fire Dusty Baker!
« Reply #1417: October 20, 2017, 04:13:39 PM »
I'm sorry but that just doesn't make sense.   You want to establish continuity, fine, I understand that.  So you accomplish that by destroying the existing continuity? Dusty could have gone another 3 years, probably at the same pace (you don't age significantly between 68 and 71; by that I mean, whatever your state of aging at 71 you've piled most of that up by 68).  Then you'd have a solid 5 years of continuity.  Then start looking for your Manager for a Decade.
Instead, we fire Dusty (and please everyone - not you Skippy - stop telling me he wasn't fired;  he was fired!) destroying that chance of continuity with no realistic hope of re-establishing it.

Maybe they know the window is closing and they don’t want to give Dusty a sixth chance to get out of the first round

Offline Ray D

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Re: Re: Fire Dusty Baker!
« Reply #1418: October 20, 2017, 04:23:26 PM »
Maybe they know the window is closing and they don’t want to give Dusty a sixth chance to get out of the first round
I damn well hope they don't "know" the window is closing.  I don't know it's closing and I sure hope that the long range plan is continued success over the long term, as stated.

But let's say they know it's closing.  And they have a plan to win it all next year.  Have they had secret communication with Joe Girardi, he's leaving the Yankees and coming here?  Probably not  (though that would be nice).   Then what?  I think they eliminated the best chance we had of winning next year.  Why?  Not that Dusty is that great, but because there is nobody available who gives us better odds of winning it all.



Offline whytev

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Re: Re: Fire Dusty Baker!
« Reply #1419: October 20, 2017, 04:27:20 PM »
I damn well hope they don't "know" the window is closing.  I don't know it's closing and I sure hope that the long range plan is continued success over the long term, as stated.

But let's say they know it's closing.  And they have a plan to win it all next year.  Have they had secret communication with Joe Girardi, he's leaving the Yankees and coming here?  Probably not  (though that would be nice).   Then what?  I think they eliminated the best chance we had of winning next year.  Why?  Not that Dusty is that great, but because there is nobody available who gives us better odds of winning it all.

Girardi has the single biggest blunder of the post-season.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Re: Fire Dusty Baker!
« Reply #1420: October 20, 2017, 04:33:19 PM »
I damn well hope they don't "know" the window is closing.  I don't know it's closing and I sure hope that the long range plan is continued success over the long term, as stated.

But let's say they know it's closing.  And they have a plan to win it all next year.  Have they had secret communication with Joe Girardi, he's leaving the Yankees and coming here?  Probably not  (though that would be nice).   Then what?  I think they eliminated the best chance we had of winning next year.  Why?  Not that Dusty is that great, but because there is nobody available who gives us better odds of winning it all.




Id rather roll the dice with an unknown than keep someone with a track record of falling short.

Online bluestreak

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Re: Re: Fire Dusty Baker!
« Reply #1421: October 20, 2017, 04:34:30 PM »
I damn well hope they don't "know" the window is closing.  I don't know it's closing and I sure hope that the long range plan is continued success over the long term, as stated.

But let's say they know it's closing.  And they have a plan to win it all next year.  Have they had secret communication with Joe Girardi, he's leaving the Yankees and coming here?  Probably not  (though that would be nice).   Then what?  I think they eliminated the best chance we had of winning next year.  Why?  Not that Dusty is that great, but because there is nobody available who gives us better odds of winning it all.

That’s one of the issues I have with this. If you’re going to fire a guy who was relatively successful, you’d better have somebody in the wings you know will be better.

Everyone that the folks on here are excited about have little to no Major league managing experience. But many of those same people say the Window is closing next year? Why waste the last year of the window on a guy that we have no idea if he will be able to run a clubhouse?

Managers do a lot more than in game decisions. All of these other things are necessary for success. We know Dusty does almost all of these things well. Why blow the last year of your window on a person that we don’t know if they do any of these things well?

Offline welch

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Re: Re: Fire Dusty Baker!
« Reply #1422: October 20, 2017, 04:38:01 PM »
I damn well hope they don't "know" the window is closing.  I don't know it's closing and I sure hope that the long range plan is continued success over the long term, as stated.

But let's say they know it's closing.  And they have a plan to win it all next year.  Have they had secret communication with Joe Girardi, he's leaving the Yankees and coming here?  Probably not  (though that would be nice).   Then what?  I think they eliminated the best chance we had of winning next year.  Why?  Not that Dusty is that great, but because there is nobody available who gives us better odds of winning it all.


Yes.

Apparently the Lerners, assuming they made the decision, believe in magic. New manager, new coaching staff, new start? All in 4.5 months? That will fix Gio, sure thing.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Re: Fire Dusty Baker!
« Reply #1423: October 20, 2017, 04:38:12 PM »
That’s one of the issues I have with this. If you’re going to fire a guy who was relatively successful, you’d better have somebody in the wings you know will be better.

Everyone that the folks on here are excited about have little to no Major league managing experience. But many of those same people say the Window is closing next year? Why waste the last year of the window on a guy that we have no idea if he will be able to run a clubhouse?

Managers do a lot more than in game decisions. All of these other things are necessary for success. We know Dusty does almost all of these things well. Why blow the last year of your window on a person that we don’t know if they do any of these things well?


If Lerner wants a ring, Dusty isn’t relatively successful, he gets bounced in the first round very reliably. If the risk is not making the playoffs, so what, I’d rather that than another year of making excuses for failing

Online bluestreak

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Re: Re: Fire Dusty Baker!
« Reply #1424: October 20, 2017, 04:43:19 PM »
If Lerner wants a ring, Dusty isn’t relatively successful, he gets bounced in the first round very reliably. If the risk is not making the playoffs, so what, I’d rather that than another year of making excuses for failing

I guarantee that you can’t get a ring if you don’t make the playoffs...only a extremely entitled fan base thinks missing the playoffs is superior to anything short of a championship. And I see no reason to justify that level of entitlement.