Author Topic: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread  (Read 321512 times)

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Offline welch

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #75: August 17, 2015, 09:21:23 PM »
Make an offer to Span; also offer enough to sign either Heyward or Cespedes. If Span signs, he plays CF and leads off. Turner can bat second. He should be there now, and I don't understand Rizzo's logic. Maybe that Span will return on Friday playing as well as he did earlier this year...no ramp-up? If Span signs plus a big guy, then Werth honorably takes a seat. If Span walks, go all out for new CF.

Another outfielder? Ichiro. Make Taylor watch Ichiro hit. Over and over. Forget the home runs. The Nats need someone who hits like Ty Cobb, Sam Rice, Denard Span, or Billy Burns. Turner is probably one. Ichiro would be the 4th OF.

Take a look at the 1924 and 1925 Nationals, at the core players: Rice, Bucky Harris, Goslin, Joe Judge. Nobody hit many home runs -- nobody on any team hit many home runs at Griffith Stadium. Those guys each had an OPS of about .825 - .850 - .937. (Note: Rice and Goslin each had triples in the double digits, probably because the old stadium had a bigger outfield than current ballparks).

If pitchers have an advantage, for whatever reason, maybe it's time to hit like "dead ball" era ball-players? Or at least to have a balance...a couple of home run hitters and several guys who "get wood on the ball" and can run. Steal bases. Play hit&run.

For whatever new tricks appear in baseball, someone probably had a counter-move 75 or 100 years ago.

Offline Slateman

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #76: August 17, 2015, 09:46:31 PM »
Taylor isn't going to just change the very nature of his offensive approach. Not at the MLB level.

Offline ZimW1N

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #77: August 18, 2015, 10:00:07 AM »
Heyward doesn't play CF btw. Only RF.

What skills do you believe Heyward is missing as a CF'er that he could not make the transition? He has plenty of range and makes great reads in the OF.  The only reason that he has play so much RF is because he has been playing by BJ Upton (a great CF'er) and Jon Jay (a great CF'er)

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #78: August 18, 2015, 10:12:04 AM »
What skills do you believe Heyward is missing as a CF'er that he could not make the transition? He has plenty of range and makes great reads in the OF.  The only reason that he has play so much RF is because he has been playing by BJ Upton (a great CF'er) and Jon Jay (a great CF'er)

My evidence is if Heyward was such a great defensive CF'er... he'd be playing CF. Unless Randal Grichuk is also all-world defensively in your opinion. (which he could be... I don't have a clue about his ability)

Offline Slateman

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #79: August 18, 2015, 12:00:00 PM »
My evidence is if Heyward was such a great defensive CF'er... he'd be playing CF. Unless Randal Grichuk is also all-world defensively in your opinion. (which he could be... I don't have a clue about his ability)

Randal Grichuk is above average. They also have Peter Bourjos. Heyward is an elite RFer with acceptable skills in CF. Also, Bryce Harper's best season in the OF was in CF. Taylor's upgrade on defense would not make up for his lack of offensive output in comparison to Heyward.

On top of that, Werth will be gone after the 2017 season, and Taylor is under team control until 2021. Werth is also frequently injured and Taylor would get quite a few at bats due to this. He will have more than enough experience to improve at the plate, if he can.

Offline ZimW1N

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #80: August 18, 2015, 12:39:18 PM »
Honestly it's also kinda a non issue since we are talking about the 70ish games a season we will have both Werth and Zimmerman healthy anyways; as soon as one of them go down Taylor is back in the lineup anyways and Heyward can go back to playing RF.

Heyward might not be Denard Span out there but I don't think it's a long stretch to assume that he would be better then Harper was in CF during his rookie year, and Harper was more than serviceable at a position he never played at an MLB level. Heyward is the best RF'er in all of baseball (defensively) so what argument does anyone have that he couldn't at least be a top 15 defender in CF other then it's magically harder for some reason.

Offline whytev

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #81: August 18, 2015, 12:46:32 PM »
Honestly it's also kinda a non issue since we are talking about the 70ish games a season we will have both Werth and Zimmerman healthy anyways; as soon as one of them go down Taylor is back in the lineup anyways and Heyward can go back to playing RF.

Heyward might not be Denard Span out there but I don't think it's a long stretch to assume that he would be better then Harper was in CF in his rookie year and Harper was more then serviceable at a position he never played at an MLB level. Heyward is the best RF'er in baseball (defensively) so what argument does anyone have that he couldn't at least be a top 15 defender in CF other then it's magically harder for some reason.

Exactly. There is a reason Taylor and Robinson have appeared in 189 games combined so far. As I've been saying all along, Taylor deserves a promotion, but we can't have den Dekker appear in a million games filling in for Werth's injuries.

Offline Slateman

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #82: August 18, 2015, 12:56:15 PM »
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2015/8/16/9160729/jason-heyward-cardinals-righted-ship

Yet another good reason to pay Heyward the big money. Dude has figured it out. He doesn't strike out often. 19.3% in April would be his worst ever of any month ... think about that for a second? That would give him the second lowest amongst anyone on the team with 300 PAs. And even a healthy Span makes him third.

Look, I like Taylor. I think he has potential. But he was brought up a year too early out of necessity. His defense is great, but you can find a speedy CFer with no hitting pretty easily. He still needs time to develop as a hitter, and even then, he is probably always going to be that guy who struggles with strikeouts.

It's not often a 4.5 WAR corner outfielder comes to free agency at age 26. Strike while the iron is hot. The Nationals are shedding a ton of payroll next season. Use some of it and compete. This is why you backloaded the Scherzer deal.

Offline Optics

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #83: August 18, 2015, 01:54:47 PM »
I'd strongly consider signing Heyward and trading Taylor for a quality C to really round out the lineup.

Losing the depth sucks but I want to win now and there will always be a drop off from starters to backups.

Offline Slateman

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #84: August 18, 2015, 02:11:18 PM »
I'd strongly consider signing Heyward and trading Taylor for a quality C to really round out the lineup.

Losing the depth sucks but I want to win now and there will always be a drop off from starters to backups.
That's a really good option too. I had thought about maybe trading for a quality pitcher, but a catcher makes a lot of sense. But who, realistically, is 2016 ready? Schwarber is the only one I can think of, and I think it would take more than Taylor.

Andrew Susac from the Giants?

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #85: August 18, 2015, 02:54:22 PM »
The last thing I want them to do is trade for a catcher- they aren't getting Posey and most other catchers are either worthless offensively or defensively- just replace ramos (who can't hit or field) with a catcher who can field

Offline mimontero88

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #86: August 18, 2015, 03:00:19 PM »
I think whether you sign Heyward has a lot to do with whether you think you will be re-signing Harper when his contract is up.  If you don't think so, you can play him in CF and Heyward in RF until Harper leaves since long-term damage becomes less of a concern.  If you do think we're keeping Harper (and I think anyone who thinks it's a foregone conclusion that he leaves is wrong) then you don't have a spot for Heyward.  Also I don't know if there is good reason to believe Michael Taylor can't be special.  I know the Ian Desmond comp rubs people the wrong way but he is the reigning Silver Slugger x3.  But when you look at Ian Desmond circa 2010 and 2011 there were growing pains and Taylor may need to have those growing pains before becoming a very special hitter.  He shows more ability to adjust his approach than Desi did which tells me he may be able to cut down on the K's more than Desi ever could and his average with RISP is still very good.  I'm not convinced standing pat with the outfield is a bad plan.  I originally wanted to overpay if necessary to keep Span but then I remembered he's a speedster on the wrong side of 30.  When those guys fall off, they fall hard.  I anticipate that Span's best days are over and I definitely don't want to roll the dice on him given that our hands are somewhat tied to roll the dice on Zimmerman and Werth already.

Offline whytev

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #87: August 18, 2015, 03:46:13 PM »
I'd strongly consider signing Heyward and trading Taylor for a quality C to really round out the lineup.

Losing the depth sucks but I want to win now and there will always be a drop off from starters to backups.

No! Don't trade Taylor. He is that 4th OF we need. Injuries and Werth especially will guarantee him 80 starts a year, plus speed and pop off the bench. Plus defensive replacement late and close. Keep him.

Offline Slateman

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #88: August 18, 2015, 04:07:53 PM »
No! Don't trade Taylor. He is that 4th OF we need. Injuries and Werth especially will guarantee him 80 starts a year, plus speed and pop off the bench. Plus defensive replacement late and close. Keep him.
This team needs a starting catcher more than it needs a 4th OFer.

And if we trade for Schwarber, he can start in LF :stir:

Offline whytev

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #89: August 18, 2015, 04:18:52 PM »
This team needs a starting catcher more than it needs a 4th OFer.

And if we trade for Schwarber, he can start in LF :stir:

Sign Wieters too?

Offline Slateman

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #90: August 18, 2015, 09:37:12 PM »
Sign Wieters too?
Not sure the Nationals can afford Wieters and Heyward. Between the two, I'd rather have Heyward. Think I'd rather trade for a decent catcher and send Ramos to a team willing to work on him some more.

Offline whytev

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #91: August 18, 2015, 11:17:53 PM »
Not sure the Nationals can afford Wieters and Heyward. Between the two, I'd rather have Heyward. Think I'd rather trade for a decent catcher and send Ramos to a team willing to work on him some more.

1 year of Ramos won't fetch much.

Offline Slateman

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #92: August 20, 2015, 07:49:01 AM »
Sign Heyward. Use Taylor as a trade piece to get another pitcher. Chris Sale, Chris Archer (would probably have to include Ross and some other prospects), Tyson Ross, Carlos Carrasco or Jake Odorizzi

Offline BrandonK

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #93: August 20, 2015, 10:37:10 AM »
Anything to replace Ramos.

Offline Optics

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #94: August 20, 2015, 10:39:47 AM »
I don't know if we necessarily need another star caliber P. I mean look at the Dodgers. They have Kershaw and Grienke and that's basically it, but they still win games because their offense will produce in games where their 3 thru 5 starters are up.

Scherzer/Strasburg/Ross/Roark/Insert Solid Veteran Starter would be a fine rotation, assuming we can get the offense figured out and the bullpen doesn't completely blow balls again.

Offline BrandonK

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #95: August 20, 2015, 10:52:39 AM »
I don't know if we necessarily need another star caliber P. I mean look at the Dodgers. They have Kershaw and Grienke and that's basically it, but they still win games because their offense will produce in games where their 3 thru 5 starters are up.

Scherzer/Strasburg/Ross/Roark/Insert Solid Veteran Starter would be a fine rotation, assuming we can get the offense figured out and the bullpen doesn't completely blow balls again.

Or leave Roark in the pen and have Cole out there. IMO, I think he could be a better starter then Roark.

Offline Monarch

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #96: August 20, 2015, 11:00:04 AM »
I don't know if we necessarily need another star caliber P. I mean look at the Dodgers. They have Kershaw and Grienke and that's basically it, but they still win games because their offense will produce in games where their 3 thru 5 starters are up.

Scherzer/Strasburg/Ross/Roark/Insert Solid Veteran Starter would be a fine rotation, assuming we can get the offense figured out and the bullpen doesn't completely blow balls again.

Gio?

Offline sizzlin

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #97: August 20, 2015, 11:09:43 AM »
I don't know if we necessarily need another star caliber P. I mean look at the Dodgers. They have Kershaw and Grienke and that's basically it, but they still win games because their offense will produce in games where their 3 thru 5 starters are up.

Scherzer/Strasburg/Ross/Roark/Insert Solid Veteran Starter would be a fine rotation, assuming we can get the offense figured out and the bullpen doesn't completely blow balls again.

Dodgers have fallen off recently i see the Giants taking that division.

Offline Matugi

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #98: August 20, 2015, 11:25:09 AM »
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2015/8/16/9160729/jason-heyward-cardinals-righted-ship

Yet another good reason to pay Heyward the big money. Dude has figured it out. He doesn't strike out often. 19.3% in April would be his worst ever of any month ... think about that for a second? That would give him the second lowest amongst anyone on the team with 300 PAs. And even a healthy Span makes him third.

Look, I like Taylor. I think he has potential. But he was brought up a year too early out of necessity. His defense is great, but you can find a speedy CFer with no hitting pretty easily. He still needs time to develop as a hitter, and even then, he is probably always going to be that guy who struggles with strikeouts.

It's not often a 4.5 WAR corner outfielder comes to free agency at age 26. Strike while the iron is hot. The Nationals are shedding a ton of payroll next season. Use some of it and compete. This is why you backloaded the Scherzer deal.

A Taylor-Heyward-Harper outfield has the potential to put up 18 wins or more

Offline Slateman

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #99: August 20, 2015, 11:44:38 AM »
I don't know if we necessarily need another star caliber P. I mean look at the Dodgers. They have Kershaw and Grienke and that's basically it, but they still win games because their offense will produce in games where their 3 thru 5 starters are up.

Scherzer/Strasburg/Ross/Roark/Insert Solid Veteran Starter would be a fine rotation, assuming we can get the offense figured out and the bullpen doesn't completely blow balls again.
See, I think you add Heyward and Turner, and maybe look to sign a back up corner outfielder who can hit reasonably well, and we should have enough offense.

Maybe Sale and Archer are too high to reach, but a guy like Ordozzi shouldn't be. Couple him with one of their relievers that is getting expensive (like McGee).

Trade Storen for something, eat some of his salary too. Take that prospect, turn around and flip him, Taylor, Voth, and Barrett to the Rays for Ordozzi and McGee (maybe not enough, maybe we add a little more).

Improve the pen, give you multiple closing options at this point. You have multiple lefties in the pen. A young, starting pitcher, so you don't have to rush Giolito and Ross can move further down in the rotation to save his stamina.

Also, we're in a different division and, right now, the Mets have a very strong rotation. Nationals need to be able to counter it.

A Taylor-Heyward-Harper outfield has the potential to put up 18 wins or more

The offense would be Werth-Harper-Heyward. If Taylor is starting, it's in CF and he's starting because someone is hurt.