Author Topic: The Garage  (Read 43602 times)

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Online HalfSmokes

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #75: September 21, 2015, 08:56:57 AM »
Any TDI owners here?

Offline tomterp

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #76: September 21, 2015, 09:10:58 AM »
Any TDI owners here?

It'll be interesting to see what happens here.  Do the right thing - have your software updated so that your emissions are according to spec but likely a negative impact on performance, or don't and continue to spew 40 times the allowable and enjoy the superior performance that comes with it.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #77: September 21, 2015, 09:19:49 AM »
It'll be interesting to see what happens here.  Do the right thing - have your software updated so that your emissions are according to spec but likely a negative impact on performance, or don't and continue to spew 40 times the allowable and enjoy the superior performance that comes with it.

you're forgetting the VW buys back all of the cars option- they sold a car with a certain advertised MPG and HP, if they can't find a fix that leaves those numbers reasonably intact (good luck), I think they're either looking at some combination of a voluntary buy back and a slew of lawsuits. I think anything under warranty will have to be bought back, the older ones are more of a question mark

there's also a chance people won't have the choice- in states where emissions testing is standard, you probably won't be able to register/renew a registration on one. In other states, it probably depends on how much the states/epa cares

Offline tomterp

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #78: September 21, 2015, 09:33:39 AM »
you're forgetting the VW buys back all of the cars option- they sold a car with a certain advertised MPG and HP, if they can't find a fix that leaves those numbers reasonably intact (good luck), I think they're either looking at some combination of a voluntary buy back and a slew of lawsuits. I think anything under warranty will have to be bought back, the older ones are more of a question mark

there's also a chance people won't have the choice- in states where emissions testing is standard, you probably won't be able to register/renew a registration on one. In other states, it probably depends on how much the states/epa cares

Has there ever been a "buy back all the cars" recall?  I doubt we'll see that.  Though as you point out it is a false bill of goods they sold.  It would be reasonable to make a direct $ settlement in compensation for the lost HP.

I could see people modifying software to recapture the performance.  I could also see states develop more sophisticated tests to identify software violators.    Regardless, it's sure to be a cluster.

Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #79: September 21, 2015, 09:44:28 AM »
California alone is a bigger market for VW than all but a couple of countries. sie gefickt werden.
you're forgetting the VW buys back all of the cars option- they sold a car with a certain advertised MPG and HP, if they can't find a fix that leaves those numbers reasonably intact (good luck), I think they're either looking at some combination of a voluntary buy back and a slew of lawsuits. I think anything under warranty will have to be bought back, the older ones are more of a question mark

there's also a chance people won't have the choice- in states where emissions testing is standard, you probably won't be able to register/renew a registration on one. In other states, it probably depends on how much the states/epa cares

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #80: September 21, 2015, 09:44:49 AM »
http://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/chrysler/2015/07/27/nhtsa-anthony-foxx-mark-rosekind-fiat-chrysler-recalls/30730931/

It happens, FIAT had to do one on RAMs they couldn't effectively repair after a recall.

I'm wondering if the inability to offer the advertised specs with a repair will make them fall into that category. Mazda is having a hell of a time getting a diesel 3 into the US- the North American CEO summed is up as "The diesel engine still doesn't have the performance Mazda wants, Jim O'Sullivan--the company's North American CEO--told industry trade journal Ward's Auto at the recent Chicago Auto Show. As he said back in December, O'Sullivan claimed the Skyactiv-D engine meets all of the necessary emissions regulations, but doesn't provide enough sportiness to match the brand's "Zoom-Zoom" image." (that seems like a good comparison to a Jetta in terms of price and performance) so I wonder if a fix is even feasible.  http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1096944_mazda-diesel-still-on-tap-but-performance-must-be-suitable-exec-says

Offline tomterp

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #81: September 23, 2015, 12:11:16 PM »
Here's a very good recap of the issue with VW and diesels in general.

http://www.vox.com/2015/9/21/9365667/volkswagen-clean-diesel-recall-passenger-cars

Includes links to details about how VW's scan actually worked, and also how the fraud was uncovered.

Offline mitlen

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #82: September 23, 2015, 12:21:35 PM »
I'm not a VW owner but I do have to go through the BS emissions tests.    I'm pissed.    I hope VW/NA goes out of business.

Offline tomterp

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #83: September 23, 2015, 12:32:55 PM »
I'm not a VW owner but I do have to go through the BS emissions tests.    I'm pissed.    I hope VW/NA goes out of business.

There is a technique (urea injection) that can mitigate emissions without significant performance impact but it is expensive and takes up room that would otherwise be storage or interior space.  Using software instead was cheap, allowing them to offer european diesel performance at purported US clean air standards, and at an affordable price that nobody else could match.  Now we see how they were able to do it.


Offline dracnal

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #84: September 23, 2015, 01:03:00 PM »
There is a technique (urea injection) that can mitigate emissions without significant performance impact but it is expensive and takes up room that would otherwise be storage or interior space.  Using software instead was cheap, allowing them to offer european diesel performance at purported US clean air standards, and at an affordable price that nobody else could match.  Now we see how they were able to do it.

So, you're saying they add a reservoir of cat pee?

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #85: September 23, 2015, 01:04:11 PM »
So, you're saying they add a reservoir of cat pee?

Ain't science great?

Offline mitlen

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Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #87: September 23, 2015, 03:10:03 PM »
How could any executive not look ahead and see the ramifications of such an absurd decision?  :bang:

A good start:

http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/23/news/companies/volkswagen-emissions-crisis/index.html

Offline mitlen

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #88: September 23, 2015, 03:10:43 PM »
How could it be that any executive could not look ahead and determine what the cost of such an absurd decision would be?  :bang:


...   who was in the room with him?

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #89: September 23, 2015, 03:11:48 PM »
I guess the most amazing thing is that they kept it secret.

...   who was in the room with him?

Offline mitlen

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #90: September 23, 2015, 03:12:44 PM »
I guess the most amazing thing is that they kept it secret.


It'll be fun to watch the rats abandon ship.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #91: September 23, 2015, 03:25:34 PM »
...   who was in the room with him?
Matt Williams?

Offline mitlen

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #92: September 23, 2015, 03:31:09 PM »

Offline varoadking

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #93: September 23, 2015, 04:28:45 PM »
Standard decision.

"We do it all the time...with all our guys"

Offline tomterp

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #94: September 24, 2015, 08:37:45 AM »
The group that discovered the VW issue also tested a BMW X5 and found no issues.

However....

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-24/bmw-drops-on-report-that-x3-diesel-s-emission-exceeded-eu-limit
Quote
BMW AG said it doesn’t cheat on emissions tests, responding to a report in German magazine Autobild that the X3 sport utility vehicle exceeded the European limit for air pollution.
The stock fell as much as 9.7 percent, the most in more than four years, on concerns that the luxury-car maker would be enmeshed in the diesel-emissions scandal that led to the resignation of Volkswagen AG’s chief executive officer on Wednesday.
A four-wheel-drive variant of the BMW SUV had emissions more than 11 times the European limit when road-tested by the International Council on Clean Transportation, the same group whose tipoff led U.S. regulators to investigate a gap between the emissions VW and Audi diesel-powered cars in the testing lab and on the road, Autobild said.

 :popcorn:

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #95: September 24, 2015, 10:14:25 AM »
http://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-diesel-scandal-may-force-out-audis-r-d-head-1732776224

Quote
Germany’s well-sourced Bild newspaper reports that Volkswagen CEO Martin Winterkorn’s resignation is just the start. They say that at the company’s board meeting on Friday, Audi’s R&D chief Ulrich Hackenberg, Porsche’s head of engines Wolfgang Hatz, VW Chief Development Officer Heinz-Jakob Neusser and U.S. CEO Michael Horn will all be forced to resign. Holy crap.

These are some major names in the world of cars, and some of the most important figures behind the VW Group’s engineering. This report is unconfirmed for now, but if it ends up being true it appears the board is cleaning house of anyone who might have known about the emissions cheating — or could be subpoena’d over it.

I wonder if Geely or some other Chinese company snaps up the engineers for some instant credibility. 

Offline HattoriHanzo

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #96: September 24, 2015, 05:22:03 PM »
Any other Porsche guys here?  I have a few pics up on my IG page.  I really need to take more pics.

https://instagram.com/vegasgts/

Offline whytev

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #97: September 24, 2015, 11:24:17 PM »
I drive a diesel shame-mobile and I'm only 23% on my way toward paying for it. Resale value is gonna be crap now. I'm pissed!

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #98: September 25, 2015, 09:20:54 AM »
I drive a diesel shame-mobile and I'm only 23% on my way toward paying for it. Resale value is gonna be crap now. I'm pissed!

Enjoy the last of the diesel cars  on the American roads.


Offline BrandonK

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Re: The Garage
« Reply #99: September 25, 2015, 10:00:43 AM »
I drive a diesel shame-mobile and I'm only 23% on my way toward paying for it. Resale value is gonna be crap now. I'm pissed!

Still emits less than gas trucks and SUVs (which also get terrible MPG). Your car will be worth more.

Unless diesel becomes impossible to find at stations...