Author Topic: Follow the Prospects: Trea Turner, SS  (Read 55646 times)

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Offline whytev

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Trea Turner, SS
« Reply #900: June 30, 2016, 09:06:49 PM »
You don't jerk players around like that. He's been an infielder his whole life and worked hard at it. And he is so good at it, he's ranked as one of the best prospects in baseball. That position also happens to be a long term need for this yeam.

I understand the point of trying to get him to the bigs and help the big club. Theyre thinking too much though. He can help the club on the infield now. You know, the actual position he plays.

Now giving him some flexibility short term is one thing. I may not agree with it, but I get it.

But now you're saying to make him a center fielder for the next year plus, until Robles is ready? Then move back to short? It may not seem like much to someone that isn't playing but taking a year off at a position like SS is not an easy thing to do. The defensive demands of the position make you play it full time and continue to improve. Not take an 18 mobth break and come back and be expected to perform like you never left.

If you're making him a CF next year, then you might as well stick him there long term. That's also a move I don't like. His.value as a shortstop is bigger than his value in the outilfield. Leave him at short (or 2nd if need be).  Go buy a short term outfield bat if you're looking for a year plus answer. Not being a wise ass but has anyone ever gone from SS to OF for a full season, then back to SS?

Can it be done? Sure. Trea and others have the athletic gifts to do so. But,it's hard enough to reach the bigs, let alone be successful there. At one position. But to completely  shut down one craft to learn another then giving up on that to go back to your old spot? That a tough task mentally, to reach your full potential. Offensively and defensively. Not impossible, but you're certainly making it harder on an individual.

Is Bryant being jerked around?  Is Zobrist?

Offline BrandonK

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Trea Turner, SS
« Reply #901: June 30, 2016, 09:10:16 PM »
Trade Trea for Chapman! He has no future here!

Online DPMOmaha

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Trea Turner, SS
« Reply #902: June 30, 2016, 09:20:31 PM »
Bogaerts
Tulo
Lindor
A. Escobar
Lindor
Correa
Andrus (eh)
Marte
Russell (eh)
Crawford
Seager

Not Tulo, Escobar, Andrus, Russell or Crawford.

Not this year anyway. Some of them have similar numbers, but there's an argument for Danny being as good or better than just about all these guys. They have more of a track record, but this year alone, Danny's in the top group.

Offline Irrefutable

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Trea Turner, SS
« Reply #903: June 30, 2016, 09:49:50 PM »
Trade Trea for Chapman! He has no future here!

I might trade him for Miller...

Offline RD

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Trea Turner, SS
« Reply #904: June 30, 2016, 10:45:09 PM »
Is Bryant being jerked around?  Is Zobrist?

Already addressed Bryant. He's not a shortstop and he's not a center fielder. And he's not bouncing back and forth between the two. Those are two demanding defensive positions and make it a completely different scenario.

As far as Zobrist, he is an established veteran that also isn't playing a premium defensive position.

I'd also like to add that playing multiple positions and being a utility player is different than asking a guy to step away from SS for a year and a half then asking him to back. It's a totally different mentality defensively being an infielder and outfielder. To shut one down completely, which was suggested here, is just not a good idea. At least as a utility guy, you are practicing and playing to keep your tools fresh. If you're talking about making a guy move to CF full time for over a year, he's going to work on that craft. He's not going to be taking ground balls at short in games or before games.

I said I understand the idea of a short term (rest of this year) position swap, even if I disagree with it. You have a potential all star SS trying to break into the bigs. You don't need to make it more difficult on him imo. I agree he should be in the bigs, but the obvious path is him at 2b and Murphy at 1b. Not him as a CF. You also don't see potential all star shortstops moved to different positions.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Trea Turner, SS
« Reply #905: July 01, 2016, 07:07:25 AM »
oh, gosh, no!  My vision of him becoming my local Mookie Betts / Brock Holt is being shattered.  I'll have to rack my brains for another Red Sox analogy in order to junk up the discussion. Just not Hanley.

PS - note that I had to say "Tony Phillips" before this . . .

Kevin Youkilis?

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Trea Turner, SS
« Reply #906: July 01, 2016, 07:48:52 AM »
Kevin Youkilis?
did you ever see the time Dennis Leary and Lenny Clarke stopped by the NESN booth with Orsillo and Remy, and after one of them mentions the whole Greek g-d of Walks thing and Orsillo says Youk is a Jew, they go off for 3 minutes or so on how nice that it is and, after he makes some nice plays, how that should show Mel Gibson. They bust on Gibson in rehab. Remy almost had his first coronary he was laughing so hard.  I think it was pulled down off youtube and NESN put it out on one of their best of Don and Jerry collections, but it you can find it, you will die watching.

Found it

! No longer available


Offline Smithian

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Trea Turner, SS
« Reply #907: July 03, 2016, 01:23:51 PM »
If you didn't know the release date I would be convinced  'Centerfield' by John Fogerty is about Turner.

Offline BrandonK

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Trea Turner, SS
« Reply #908: July 06, 2016, 07:33:47 PM »
Kevin Brown ‏@kevinnbrown  9m9 minutes ago
Strong first inning for @treavturner: double, steal of third, run, first OF assist of young CF career (on Eury Perez!). #Nats

Online NJ Ave

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Trea Turner, SS
« Reply #909: July 06, 2016, 08:17:05 PM »
You also don't see potential all star shortstops moved to different positions.

Actually you do sometimes. Sometimes just 40 miles up I-95, except not with potential all-star SS but potential MVP SS. Or how about on the best team in the NL, where their all-star SS played 2B most of last season as a rookie because they had someone else playing SS? Robinson Cano split time at SS in the minors, but had no shot there because of Jeter.

In any case, it says more about a player if he realizes he's doing what's best for the team, and not what's best for him in the short-term. I have no doubt he won't forget how to play SS, if that position opens up this offseason (or after next season).

Offline RD

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Trea Turner, SS
« Reply #910: July 06, 2016, 10:04:53 PM »
Actually you do sometimes. Sometimes just 40 miles up I-95, except not with potential all-star SS but potential MVP SS. Or how about on the best team in the NL, where their all-star SS played 2B most of last season as a rookie because they had someone else playing SS? Robinson Cano split time at SS in the minors, but had no shot there because of Jeter.

In any case, it says more about a player if he realizes he's doing what's best for the team, and not what's best for him in the short-term. I have no doubt he won't forget how to play SS, if that position opens up this offseason (or after next season).

Well if you want to nitpick, yes, a ss can play 2b or 3b based on team needs. Even 1st base. That is totally understandable. That really hasn't been a part.of the debate. I've said Turner should be playing 2nd. Taking it a step further, I've also said our MVP candidate 2b should move to first. I'm not against an infielder remaining on the infield. I do believe Turner should remain a ss long term, though.

However, the discussion here is about the outfield. That is a completely different issue. A potential all star SS is shifted to the outfield for a year plus? Then asked to move back to ss? Thats very rare. And there's a reason for it. Its.not very smart.

Online NJ Ave

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Trea Turner, SS
« Reply #911: July 07, 2016, 06:56:01 AM »
And there's a reason for it. Its.not very smart.


I'd say the reason is really more that it's rare for a team to have two all-star SS at the same time, and even rarer to have all-star potential players at 3B, SS, and 2B already.

But frankly, we don't know how them view him internally, and we don't know if they plan to sign Danny long-term. Most teams don't think 2B is any more valuable than CF, so if they don't believe he's a SS long-term, they may just think CF is a better long-term fit than 2B, given the team's roster. Isn't that possible?

Offline RD

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Trea Turner, SS
« Reply #912: July 07, 2016, 09:50:15 AM »
I'd say the reason is really more that it's rare for a team to have two all-star SS at the same time, and even rarer to have all-star potential players at 3B, SS, and 2B already.

But frankly, we don't know how them view him internally, and we don't know if they plan to sign Danny long-term. Most teams don't think 2B is any more valuable than CF, so if they don't believe he's a SS long-term, they may just think CF is a better long-term fit than 2B, given the team's roster. Isn't that possible?

I do not believe the team is viewing Turner as a long term fit as a CF.

With Stevenson and Robles not thst far off, it would be extremely short sighted to take such a view.

You might as well trade Turner and take the value of him as a SS than switching him long term to the OF. His ability as a shortstop is what has made him so highly regarded. Someone would pay pretty well for that imo.

I think Danny is moved after the season. The control of Turner as opposed to striking an extension with Danny(and capitalizing on hopefully continued success at the plate) carries value.

Online NJ Ave

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Trea Turner, SS
« Reply #913: July 07, 2016, 10:05:43 AM »
I think Danny is moved after the season.

If you think this, then I have no idea why you think this is different than the Cubs shifting around Addison Russell or Kris Bryant in their first couple of seasons. Russell had played a total of 5 career minor league games at 2B when he was called up as a 2B. Bryce had always played C and had fewer than 300 innings of CF in the minors and then played 92 games in CF as a 19-year old rookie.

Would it be nice if the Nationals found a good permanent home for Trea Turner? Of course. But it seems like an overreaction to think that this temporary move will hurt him somehow. I'm sure if you gave Trea Turner a choice of getting called up to the majors in CF or staying in the minors at SS, he'd choose the former.

Offline BrandonK

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Trea Turner, SS
« Reply #914: July 07, 2016, 10:14:17 AM »
I'm sure he would. And I've come around to the CF idea for the rest of the season, once he gets some more reps (you mentioned 300 innings for Harp in the OF. Trea has 27, IIRC).

Offline RD

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Trea Turner, SS
« Reply #915: July 07, 2016, 02:39:02 PM »
If you think this, then I have no idea why you think this is different than the Cubs shifting around Addison Russell or Kris Bryant in their first couple of seasons. Russell had played a total of 5 career minor league games at 2B when he was called up as a 2B. Bryce had always played C and had fewer than 300 innings of CF in the minors and then played 92 games in CF as a 19-year old rookie.

Would it be nice if the Nationals found a good permanent home for Trea Turner? Of course. But it seems like an overreaction to think that this temporary move will hurt him somehow. I'm sure if you gave Trea Turner a choice of getting called up to the majors in CF or staying in the minors at SS, he'd choose the former.

I'm having a hard time figuring out why you're having trouble understanding my stance.

I've addressed, multiple times in this thread, the things you just mentioned.

Regarding an Addison Russell comparison: I've stated multiple times that I believe Trea should be up and playing 2nd base, woth Murphy at first. Clearly, that says I'm ok with him playing 2b.

Regarding a Kris Bryant comparison: I have stated that I do not believe there is one. Playing 3b and LF is not comparable to.playing SS and CF. Bryant is playing positions more regarded for their bat, and Trea is playing two spots where defense is very important.

The correct Cub youngster comparison would be Baez. He's played numerous spots, including short and the outfield. But, I've also said a utility role for Trea is something that I'm fine with for the year.

What I do not believe is very wise is moving Trea to CF full time. Especially asking him to play CF for a year and a hakf, maybe more, and then expecting him to shift back to SS. It is a totally different world fielding grounders, reading ground balls, bacl handing balls in the hole, charging and picking it and tjrowing off balance to first than it is to judge the direction and depth of fly balls and tjrowing with a full load or wind up. Trea is still a work in progress at short. To completely shut down playing short for a long time absolutely does not help him improve defensively. I do not think he will forget how to play short, but it definitely halts improvement and I believe it does harm the natural instincts and reactions by stepping away for such a long time.

I am fine with Trea playing CF for the rest of the year, but believe he should return to SS next year. I'm fine with Trea playing a utility role. At least in a utility role, you are not completely shutting down your defensive responsibility and work as an infielder. It's a short period of time and he would still he able to sharpen his skills by playing his natural spot (infield, whether 2b or ss) at times.

I just dis agree with the notion that he should play CF full time for 18 months, with an eye towards moving him back to Ss. I also disagree with the idea that that's an easy move to make. I also believe his value is much greater as a SS, which is why I believe he should stay there long term.

To re-iterate. I'm fine wth Trea playing CF the rest of this year. I'm fine with Trea playing a utility role this year. I just disagree with him playing CF full time, beyond this year. Whether full time or with the thought he can easily transition back in 2 years. If I had a say, he's up playing 2b with Murphy playing 1st and CF isn't even a discussion.

Offline BrandonK

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Trea Turner, SS
« Reply #916: July 09, 2016, 01:54:22 PM »
I'd say lock it up, but he'll be back after the ASB.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Trea Turner, SS
« Reply #917: July 09, 2016, 03:31:04 PM »
even I get tired of moderating



Online mitlen

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Trea Turner, SS
« Reply #920: July 09, 2016, 05:55:45 PM »
Not a tryout!  What a putdown!  :hysterical:

I thought so too, kind of dismissive.


Offline Slateman

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Trea Turner, SS
« Reply #922: July 14, 2016, 08:05:02 PM »
Hasn't gotten a hit in four days. Bench him.

Offline tzinc

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Trea Turner, SS
« Reply #923: July 15, 2016, 12:21:06 AM »
playing OF including CF is easy the hard positions are SS 2B 3B if a player can be a SS/2B OF including CF is easy and no you don't suddenly forget how to play SS/2B

Offline welch

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Trea Turner, SS
« Reply #924: July 15, 2016, 12:25:16 AM »
Already addressed Bryant. He's not a shortstop and he's not a center fielder. And he's not bouncing back and forth between the two. Those are two demanding defensive positions and make it a completely different scenario.

As far as Zobrist, he is an established veteran that also isn't playing a premium defensive position.

I'd also like to add that playing multiple positions and being a utility player is different than asking a guy to step away from SS for a year and a half then asking him to back. It's a totally different mentality defensively being an infielder and outfielder. To shut one down completely, which was suggested here, is just not a good idea. At least as a utility guy, you are practicing and playing to keep your tools fresh. If you're talking about making a guy move to CF full time for over a year, he's going to work on that craft. He's not going to be taking ground balls at short in games or before games.

I said I understand the idea of a short term (rest of this year) position swap, even if I disagree with it. You have a potential all star SS trying to break into the bigs. You don't need to make it more difficult on him imo. I agree he should be in the bigs, but the obvious path is him at 2b and Murphy at 1b. Not him as a CF. You also don't see potential all star shortstops moved to different positions.

Yes. Turner to 2B and Murphy to 1B against RH starters. Robinson against lefties, giving him a start a couple of times a week. Although Murphy is not a terrible fielder, Turner looks better.