Author Topic: Braves trade Heyward to Cardinals  (Read 4669 times)

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Offline tomterp

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Re: Braves trade Heyward to Cardinals
« Reply #50: November 17, 2014, 04:09:39 PM »
It boggles my mind.   Braves have two malcontent, useless outfielders and one good one. So they unload the good one.

1 year of the good one.

They were never going to resign him anyway, it's not their budget model.

Offline imref

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Re: Braves trade Heyward to Cardinals
« Reply #51: November 17, 2014, 04:10:04 PM »
I mean, who ARE you building around down there? A bunch of TJ arms, a closer, and a SS who can't hit?

Evan gattis?  It should be fun watching him in left next year.

Offline imref

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Re: Braves trade Heyward to Cardinals
« Reply #52: November 17, 2014, 04:11:37 PM »
Yeah, but he'd also come with a draft pick. Oh, AND your team would be better in 2015, which is a year I assume the Braves would like to contend in?

Braves are reportedly rebuilding for 2016-17.

Offline blue911

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Re: Braves trade Heyward to Cardinals
« Reply #53: November 17, 2014, 04:16:13 PM »
Hahahaha. Well no wonder they're not going for a draft pick then, now that they have someone who can actually spot talent! Better to get a big league ready arm with a DL-ready UCL.

I think it's his shoulder but it really doesn't matter. St. Louis doesn't give up a healthy Shelby Miller so easily.

Offline blue911

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Re: Braves trade Heyward to Cardinals
« Reply #54: November 17, 2014, 04:18:23 PM »
Braves are reportedly rebuilding for 2016-17.

Then move Kimbrel. Paying a pitcher 10% of your payroll to pitch less than 5% of your innings doesn't make sense.

Offline 3bside

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Re: Braves trade Heyward to Cardinals
« Reply #55: November 17, 2014, 04:20:14 PM »
The Braves couldn't score any runs last year, so what does John Hart do?  Get pitching.  Miller is probably a wash if Santana goes elsewhere.  There aren't a lot of bats left in free agency, and the Braves don't have much in their farm system to call up or trade.  So the Braves are fast turning into a non-contender.

Offline sph274

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Re: Braves trade Heyward to Cardinals
« Reply #56: November 17, 2014, 04:21:36 PM »
The figure you'd using already includes $23 million combined for J. Upton and Jason Heyward in 2015. In 2016, when they're both free agents, the Braves are <$85 million after arb and in 2017 are only $102 after arb, according to B-R.

i just added 40 mil to the 2016 figure which is like 80.8 give or take, so that is 120 mil if they sign both to long term deals. and then 140 in 2017? you think they are gonna dump that into upton and heyward? when they dont have a CF, a catcher that can hit, or a 2b? a 55.5 million dollar outfield that include 15 mil to BJ Upton?

Offline NJ Ave

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Re: Braves trade Heyward to Cardinals
« Reply #57: November 17, 2014, 04:25:39 PM »
Braves are reportedly rebuilding for 2016-17.

Yeah, that's I guess what's going on (lots of leaks around more moves coming).

I still don't understand it. In 2013 when they won 96 games, Freeman/Simmons were worth 12.3 WAR according to B-R. In 2014 they were worth 6.7. Mike Minor was worth 3.3 WAR in 2013, and 0.1 in 2014. Those three guys accounted for almost a 9 win swing according to WAR.

You get back Medlen for part of the season, you spend $14 million on something OTHER than Ervin Santana, maybe you have continued improvement from Teheren and Wood, and you get something extra from Simmons/Freeman/Minor and this is STILL a potential playoff team. If you get a breakout from Justin Upton or Jason Heyward, it could be a REALLY GOOD team.

It's just weird. Look at the Nats from 2012-2014. What if we had given up after one disappointing season and started trading everyone away?

Offline NJ Ave

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Re: Braves trade Heyward to Cardinals
« Reply #58: November 17, 2014, 04:30:35 PM »
i just added 40 mil to the 2016 figure which is like 80.8 give or take, so that is 120 mil if they sign both to long term deals. and then 140 in 2017? you think they are gonna dump that into upton and heyward? when they dont have a CF, a catcher that can hit, or a 2b? a 55.5 million dollar outfield that include 15 mil to BJ Upton?

Hahaha. By all means then, if you need to limit how much you pay your OFs, trade away Justin Upton and Jason Heyward and keep BJ Upton. That's a winner's move. They needed to think more than one move ahead. They're going to be paying Kimbrel and Chris Johnson Jason Heyward's money in 2016/17. Enjoy Kimbrel saving 45 out of 68 victories.

Offline blue911

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Re: Braves trade Heyward to Cardinals
« Reply #59: November 17, 2014, 04:31:36 PM »
I think Atlanta could have swung a better deal in late July.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Braves trade Heyward to Cardinals
« Reply #60: November 17, 2014, 04:37:41 PM »
As others have noted Braves are rebuilding and realized they could not sign Heyward.  They have punted on 2015 and/or hoping their starting pitchers come back from injury strong.  If so, they will have a good staff.  They may just unload Kimbrel at the trading deadline this summer.


Offline sph274

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Re: Braves trade Heyward to Cardinals
« Reply #61: November 17, 2014, 04:39:07 PM »
Hahaha. By all means then, if you need to limit how much you pay your OFs, trade away Justin Upton and Jason Heyward and keep BJ Upton. That's a winner's move. They needed to think more than one move ahead. They're going to be paying Kimbrel and Chris Johnson Jason Heyward's money in 2016/17. Enjoy Kimbrel saving 45 out of 68 victories.

nobody takes that BJ Upton deal. they screwed themselves with several stupid contracts and cant afford to resign their elite talent. it is a lesson we should heed when people start throwing around numbers for extending our guys at the end of next season. evan gattis is a butcher in LF, chris johnson and bj upton suck, their rotation is full of guys who might play next year and people have been waiting for Justin Upton to turn into an MVP candidate for years. shelby miller was a top 10 prospect recently and could turn into a really solid pitcher. it isnt incredibly stupid for them to start looking a bit down the road considering how stacked the nats are next year and how the nats prob wont be so stacked after next season.


edit: shelby miller was a better prospect than aj cole(our presumed 4/5 starter in 2016) has ever been. the guy is young and could turn into a great 2 starter. he was a projected ace like before last year

Offline NJ Ave

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Re: Braves trade Heyward to Cardinals
« Reply #62: November 17, 2014, 04:47:48 PM »
nobody takes that BJ Upton deal. they screwed themselves with several stupid contracts and cant afford to resign their elite talent. it is a lesson we should heed when people start throwing around numbers for extending our guys at the end of next season. evan gattis is a butcher in LF, chris johnson and bj upton suck, their rotation is full of guys who might play next year and people have been waiting for Justin Upton to turn into an MVP candidate for years. shelby miller was a top 10 prospect recently and could turn into a really solid pitcher. it isnt incredibly stupid for them to start looking a bit down the road considering how stacked the nats are next year and how the nats prob wont be so stacked after next season.

They are LITERALLY missing Dan Uggla and Brian McCann from the lineup that won 96 games in 2013. Oh wait, and 280 innings of 4.20 ERA from Paul Maholm and Tim Hudson.

They're blowing up a team that was sandwiched with the Athletics, Orioles, Pirates, Red Sox, and Yankees in the early Vegas odds for the World Series next year.

This was not the only play here. They could have kept everyone one more year and tried to make a playoff run.

Offline sph274

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Re: Braves trade Heyward to Cardinals
« Reply #63: November 17, 2014, 04:50:16 PM »
they were a below .500 team last year. they have no 2B, Evan Gattis is not a C and had to be moved to the OF, and christain betancourt is probably not gonna hit the ground running. shelby miller immediately becomes like their 3 starter.

Offline NJ Ave

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Re: Braves trade Heyward to Cardinals
« Reply #64: November 17, 2014, 04:50:17 PM »
I mean, I guess you would have traded James Shields and Billy Butler from the Royals last year. I guess I disagree.

Offline NJ Ave

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Re: Braves trade Heyward to Cardinals
« Reply #65: November 17, 2014, 04:52:58 PM »
they were a below .500 team last year.

The team that just won the World Series was a below .500 team the previous year.

Offline sph274

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Re: Braves trade Heyward to Cardinals
« Reply #66: November 17, 2014, 05:02:10 PM »
they had the same record as the mets(and a worse pythag, they had the exact same pythag as the marlins). maybe the mets will win the world series next year, i dont know. the 2015 braves were not gonna be some powerhouse with or without Jayson Heyward. the braves last year were kind of a crappy team and they are probably gonna be a kinda crappy team next year. i suppose the new gm wanted to take the team in a different direction instead of just staying the Wren course

Online Ray D

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Re: Braves trade Heyward to Cardinals
« Reply #67: November 17, 2014, 05:21:23 PM »
I predict right now, the Phillies will win the division before the Braves ever win it again. And the Phillies won't win in the next five years.

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Braves trade Heyward to Cardinals
« Reply #68: November 17, 2014, 05:21:38 PM »
Right. Nothing else going with those franchises...the problem is Tulo and Mauer not having 30-WAR seasons.

Keep drinking that Kool Aid.


Offline NJ Ave

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Re: Braves trade Heyward to Cardinals
« Reply #70: November 17, 2014, 06:49:06 PM »
Keep drinking that Kool Aid.

This makes no sense. What kool aid? The kool aid where franchises occasionally sign good players to large contracts? Ummm okay.

Offline NJ Ave

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Re: Braves trade Heyward to Cardinals
« Reply #71: November 17, 2014, 06:52:10 PM »
they had the same record as the mets(and a worse pythag, they had the exact same pythag as the marlins). maybe the mets will win the world series next year, i dont know. the 2015 braves were not gonna be some powerhouse with or without Jayson Heyward. the braves last year were kind of a crappy team and they are probably gonna be a kinda crappy team next year. i suppose the new gm wanted to take the team in a different direction instead of just staying the Wren course

I guess there's the slight difference that the same Braves core had made two straight playoffs appearance and averaged 95 wins a season. Slight difference. Look, teams rebuild and reload. They usually don't just at the time their core players are all in their mid 20s.

Offline Vega

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Re: Braves trade Heyward to Cardinals
« Reply #72: November 17, 2014, 06:59:52 PM »
Atlanta sucked last season. Making moves to improve the team in the future is wise because the core from last year wasn't going to do anything. Time to deal Justin Upton too and try flipping B.J. for an equally bad contract like Edwin Jackson or Ubaldo Jimenez. Gattis likely has value to an AL team too.

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Braves trade Heyward to Cardinals
« Reply #73: November 17, 2014, 08:05:20 PM »
This makes no sense. What kool aid? The kool aid where franchises occasionally sign good players to large contracts? Ummm okay.

The Kool Aid you and most of Fangraphs have been choking on for years.  It's called the "I Have Baseball Down to an Exact Science" variety.

Offline NJ Ave

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Re: Braves trade Heyward to Cardinals
« Reply #74: November 17, 2014, 08:14:41 PM »
The Kool Aid you and most of Fangraphs have been choking on for years.  It's called the "I Have Baseball Down to an Exact Science" variety.

This seems a little familiar. I said I would rather sign my top players and fit other pieces around them, rather than sign the other pieces and then have to move my best players. You go to some Fangraphs reference? Fine, you're right, way to go Braves. Now you're missing Heyward but you have BJ Upton, Chris Johnson, and the ghost of Dan Ugglas contract. Obviously you're right, those things are better than Jason Heyward who had to be moved because they could no longer pay him.

Lighten up, Francis.