Author Topic: Fire the Umps  (Read 6206 times)

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Offline Baseball is Life

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Fire the Umps
« Topic Start: October 05, 2014, 12:22:50 PM »
It's hard to love this game when the officiating is so incompetent. I know some of you will say this is just sour grapes after last night, but the home late umpiring was even being ridiculed last night on the MLBN...not exactly good for the credibility of the sport.

It's just a matter of time before incompetent umpiring leads to having their authority completely taken away from them. Instant replay already has taken away some of their ability to freak up a game and has shown just how truly incompetent they are. (Frankly, I believed instant replay would show how good they were. What a joke. It just shows how many calls they routinely blow.)

Now we need electronic balls and strikes to totally take away the umpires' ability to ruin baseball. Last night's plate umpiring was an effing joke. It will drive fans away from the game out of frustration.

I predict that home plate umpring will be be augmented with electronic sensors within five years. Put an ear piece in the home plate umpire's ear that beeps when the ball crosses the plate. He can just stand there and raise his arm like an robot for all I care.

I'm open to all suggestions for removing the human element out of umpiring. I just don't see a downside to it but I'm sure some of you will educate me.


Offline Vega

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Re: Fire the Umps
« Reply #1: October 05, 2014, 01:06:28 PM »
Blah blah tradition always been done this way adds a layer of unpredictability etc. [/Pro-umpire people]

Offline Baseball is Life

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Re: Fire the Umps
« Reply #2: October 05, 2014, 01:08:49 PM »
Blah blah tradition always been done this way adds a layer of unpredictability etc. [/Pro-umpire people]

I am dying to hear a reasonable counter argument against. No, "it takes the human element out of it" is not reasonable.

It will happen. It's a question of when, not if. They said we would never get instant replay either.

Offline Vega

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Re: Fire the Umps
« Reply #3: October 05, 2014, 01:12:10 PM »
I am dying to hear a reasonable counter argument against. No, "it takes the human element out of it" is not reasonable.

It will happen. It's a question of when, not if. They said we would never get instant replay either.
There is no reasonable argument for umps. Like Mike Schmidt says, we need force fields.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/04/10/mike-schmidt-says-umpires-should-not-call-balls-and-strikes/

Offline Kevrock

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Re: Fire the Umps
« Reply #4: October 05, 2014, 01:29:02 PM »
Lol at force fields. OK I'm in.

Offline TigerFan

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Re: Fire the Umps
« Reply #5: October 05, 2014, 04:18:09 PM »
You nailed it BiL.  It is sour grapes.  Anyone worth their sack wouldn't blame losing games on umpires.  They had 18 freaking innings to score another run and couldn't.  Weren't even close in many instances.  For everyone that loves blaming umpires you shouldn't want electronic balls and strikes.  You'd lose your failsafe scapegoat if real umpires go away. 

Offline spidernat

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Re: Fire the Umps
« Reply #6: October 05, 2014, 04:21:31 PM »
  For everyone that loves blaming umpires you shouldn't want electronic balls and strikes.  You'd lose your failsafe scapegoat if real umpires go away. 

:worship:

Online Slateman

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Re: Fire the Umps
« Reply #7: October 05, 2014, 04:30:57 PM »
It's time for computer called balls and strikes. This will also be MLB's answer to lack of offense. Now every hitter will know exactly what the zone is.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Fire the Umps
« Reply #8: October 05, 2014, 05:34:57 PM »
I'm not a tennis fan, but they have automated line calls.  It is simpler, of course, because lines don't move and the knees and letters change for players.  That said, what was the reaction of fans and players when they moved to automated calls and how is it thought of today?

If it is strictly a matter of the top and the bottom of the strike zone being difficult to program, I might even be in favor of setting those at a standard height so Altuve would have the same zone as Dunn.  It would take time to adjust,  but I think most good hitters could deal with it.  many already lay off unhittable strikes and jump on some OOZ pitches.

Of course, I'd love a Google car because I stink at driving.

Offline Baseball is Life

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Re: Fire the Umps
« Reply #9: October 05, 2014, 05:37:09 PM »
You nailed it BiL.  It is sour grapes.  Anyone worth their sack wouldn't blame losing games on umpires.  They had 18 freaking innings to score another run and couldn't.  Weren't even close in many instances.  For everyone that loves blaming umpires you shouldn't want electronic balls and strikes.  You'd lose your failsafe scapegoat if real umpires go away. 

Did I blame the loss on the umps? Hell, no. I know it was the hitting.

I just think the credibility of the game I love so much is in doubt. I know I can't support a sport that is this ineptly officiated. Too effing frustrating.

And I'm still daring anyone to come up with a reasonable counter argument.

Offline Kevrock

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Re: Fire the Umps
« Reply #10: October 05, 2014, 06:13:02 PM »
You nailed it BiL.  It is sour grapes.  Anyone worth their sack wouldn't blame losing games on umpires.  They had 18 freaking innings to score another run and couldn't.  Weren't even close in many instances.  For everyone that loves blaming umpires you shouldn't want electronic balls and strikes.  You'd lose your failsafe scapegoat if real umpires go away. 

Nah b, I'll blame the computers for not rewarding JZimm with extra strikezone once he's earned it.

Maybe they can program that in. :lol:

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: Fire the Umps
« Reply #11: October 06, 2014, 07:03:41 AM »
We can also just have robots play the sport as well.  That way, the city with the best technological infrastructure and geek squad will win the World Series every year.


Offline Baseball is Life

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Re: Fire the Umps
« Reply #12: October 06, 2014, 08:22:58 AM »
I am still waiting for someone to come up with a reasonable counter argument. I think linty had a a reasonable one a while back and I would love for him to chime in. It was along the lines of how electronic strike calls would favor hitters because it would take the guesswork out of the strike zone.

Offline Squab

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Re: Fire the Umps
« Reply #13: October 06, 2014, 10:40:23 AM »

Offline OldChelsea

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Re: Fire the Umps
« Reply #14: October 06, 2014, 10:43:30 AM »
Slowes and Jageler were really down on the ball-and-strike calling on Saturday.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Fire the Umps
« Reply #15: October 06, 2014, 11:30:32 AM »
You all realize that the PitchF/X data is serious biased, right?  No two camera angles are alike and, outside of velocity, the breaks and location of the pitches is off by a few degrees/mm every pitch.  You might think "no big deal" but that's a very big deal.  I've got no problem with them using the plate "force field" technology to grade umps on pitches over the plate but the technology is certainly not there in PitchF/X to do a 3d strike zone. 

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: Fire the Umps
« Reply #16: October 06, 2014, 11:43:51 AM »
You all realize that the PitchF/X data is serious biased, right?  No two camera angles are alike and, outside of velocity, the breaks and location of the pitches is off by a few degrees/mm every pitch.  You might think "no big deal" but that's a very big deal.  I've got no problem with them using the plate "force field" technology to grade umps on pitches over the plate but the technology is certainly not there in PitchF/X to do a 3d strike zone.

Let me give you the counter:

I am still waiting for someone to come up with a reasonable counter argument.

:?

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Fire the Umps
« Reply #17: October 06, 2014, 11:56:12 AM »
Just in case somebody comes back with the "that's not bias according to Wooldridge", PitchF/X data is biased in that there are adjustments in the data to get everything to fit into the "strike zone" box.  Also, that data is also only two dimensional so any breaking pitch that crosses a corner isn't going to get picked up by PitchF/X like it does by a live ump looking over the plate.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Fire the Umps
« Reply #18: October 06, 2014, 02:02:01 PM »
I wonder if RF chips in the core of baseballs and some pings or such could be a better answer than current pitch f/x. 

MDS - if the adjustments as you say are done consistently within a ballpark, then would the current system obtain consistency? Or are the inaccuracies random from pitch to pitch?

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: Fire the Umps
« Reply #19: October 06, 2014, 02:05:08 PM »
I wonder if RF chips in the core of baseballs and some pings or such could be a better answer than current pitch f/x. 

MDS - if the adjustments as you say are done consistently within a ballpark, then would the current system obtain consistency? Or are the inaccuracies random from pitch to pitch?

It needs to factor the entire baseball in and not just the size of the chip in the center of the baseball.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Fire the Umps
« Reply #20: October 06, 2014, 02:28:03 PM »
It needs to factor the entire baseball in and not just the size of the chip in the center of the baseball.
I think the chip and the readers / pings could be set up to treat anything within a distance of the radius of the ball would trigger a "strike" registering.  It is just a matter of programming when to register the ping as a strike.  I think it would be mathematical. 

Offline PC

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Re: Fire the Umps
« Reply #21: October 06, 2014, 02:28:23 PM »
If pitch fx is "biased" then what methodology does MLB use to determine good umpires and bad umpires?  More importantly, what methodology do they use to determine bad umpires from crooked umpires?

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Fire the Umps
« Reply #22: October 06, 2014, 02:29:28 PM »
If pitch fx is "biased" then what methodology does MLB use to determine good umpires and bad umpires?  More importantly, what methodology do they use to determine bad umpires from crooked umpires?
to determine if an offical is crooked, they look to see if he or she works for the NBA.

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: Fire the Umps
« Reply #23: October 06, 2014, 02:32:35 PM »
to determine if an offical is crooked, they look to see if he or she works for the NBA.

Or, like all rational people, they realize that not every bad call is a conspiracy against PC's favorite teams.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Fire the Umps
« Reply #24: October 06, 2014, 02:46:03 PM »
I think the chip and the readers / pings could be set up to treat anything within a distance of the radius of the ball would trigger a "strike" registering.  It is just a matter of programming when to register the ping as a strike.  I think it would be mathematical. 
You could certainly figure out the location using RF chips but I would them rather not do that for obvious reasons.  I think the best you can hope for is for them to use (or continue to use) a "force field" that indicates whether or not the ball crossed the plate to grade umps and fire the ones that fall outside of the first standard deviation (polish up your resume Angel Hernandez).  Standardizing the strike zone is going to be a non-starter with the MLBPA so scratch that off the list.