Author Topic: Rolling Thunder  (Read 29387 times)

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Online tomterp

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #125: December 02, 2015, 08:23:04 PM »
Only place I've been to recently that still has that old charm is the dealership in Ft. Washington (HD of Washington IIRC).

DC Ramblers Motorcycle Club? Is that still there?

We used to drag race on the adjacent Riverview Drive, it has a nice straight quarter mile and room to decelerate.

Offline mitlen

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #126: December 02, 2015, 08:25:29 PM »
DC Ramblers Motorcycle Club? Is that still there?

We used to drag race on the adjacent Riverview Drive, it has a nice straight quarter mile and room to decelerate.

Not sure of the club name but the HOG chapter has free dogs and burgers on Saturdays in the summer.    :)    We'd usually hit Apehangers on the way up or way back to King George.   Used to stop at a place near Captain Billys too.

EDIT:   Gilligans  ....  Reno's Colonial Beach

Online tomterp

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #127: December 02, 2015, 08:31:58 PM »
Not sure of the club name but the HOG chapter has free dogs and burgers on Saturdays in the summer.    :)    We'd usually hit Apehangers on the way up or way back to King George.   Used to stop at a place near Captain Billys too.

EDIT:   Gilligans

I think this is the joint.

https://www.facebook.com/DC-Ramblers-Motorcycle-Club-Inc-177513242315546/?fref=ts

Offline mitlen

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #128: December 04, 2015, 11:09:04 AM »
Bought the King there...ordered what I wanted and got it under MSRP at the start of the '01 model run 15 years ago...

Big Daddy is a hoot and throws some good parties.  I haven't been there in over 10 years though, and likely wouldn't recognize the place now...it used to be something of a dump...



In a thread of riders I hang with on occasion, the word is there will eventually be a mega-place in Fredricksburg just off 95.   Said it's supposed to be by the new Indian place.     If that's the case, it won't be far from Hooters.    :)      It'll probably end up like the one down your way.    I would think the place in Richmond and the place in Dumfries (East Coast) won't like the proximity.

Online varoadking

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #129: December 04, 2015, 11:38:41 AM »
In a thread of riders I hang with on occasion, the word is there will eventually be a mega-place in Fredricksburg just off 95.   Said it's supposed to be by the new Indian place.     If that's the case, it won't be far from Hooters.    :)      It'll probably end up like the one down your way.    I would think the place in Richmond and the place in Dumfries (East Coast) won't like the proximity.

That would be a great location...  ;)

BTW - told my family and friends that I was going to ANC to lay wreaths next Saturday, and if they still wanted to see me, it would be after I got back.  My SiL said he wants to join me...  :mg:

Online varoadking

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #130: December 07, 2015, 11:46:12 AM »

Offline dracnal

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #131: December 07, 2015, 12:37:39 PM »
Going back to Oahu and visiting the Arizona again is on my bucket list. Would like to take the wife and maybe the kids if I'm feeling generous.  I really need to get up to Gettysburg at some point as well. Both battles could have had such vastly different outcomes, but for little factors.

In Pearl, they ignored the major fuel depots north of the harbor and the aircraft carriers were all out to sea. In Gettysburg, Lee's general orders for the battle were dropped by a courier riding to the front and discovered by Union soldiers prior to the fight. It's easy to imagine that might have gone differently if they didn't know where the spearhead was aimed.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #132: December 07, 2015, 04:59:34 PM »
In Gettysburg, Lee's general orders for the battle were dropped by a courier riding to the front and discovered by Union soldiers prior to the fight. It's easy to imagine that might have gone differently if they didn't know where the spearhead was aimed.
Antietam, not Gettysburg.  Even with that advantage, McClellan could not get a clean victory because he never pressed on multiple fronts early in the fight.

With Pearl, I think they had enough of an inkling that hostilities were imminent that they made a specific effort to keep the carriers in port a minimum amount of time in the weeks prior to the attack.  Not so much in prep for an attack on Pearl as to keep them beefing up remote islands and the like.  I think Wake and Midway had planes and equipment delivered shortly before 12/7. 

Looking at VaRK's picture, I had not realized there were portions of the Arizona still above water, but it looks like the float plane catapults and maybe a turret are still there.  I had not realized the Memorial was built across the beam and was not over the length.   

As an aside - the Wisconsin is in Norfolk, the New Jersey is in Camden, the Missouri is in Pearl Harbor, so where is the Iowa?

Offline mitlen

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #133: December 07, 2015, 05:06:21 PM »
Antietam, not Gettysburg.  Even with that advantage, McClellan could not get a clean victory because he never pressed on multiple fronts early in the fight.

With Pearl, I think they had enough of an inkling that hostilities were imminent that they made a specific effort to keep the carriers in port a minimum amount of time in the weeks prior to the attack.  Not so much in prep for an attack on Pearl as to keep them beefing up remote islands and the like.  I think Wake and Midway had planes and equipment delivered shortly before 12/7. 

Looking at VaRK's picture, I had not realized there were portions of the Arizona still above water, but it looks like the float plane catapults and maybe a turret are still there.  I had not realized the Memorial was built across the beam and was not over the length.   

As an aside - the Wisconsin is in Norfolk, the New Jersey is in Camden, the Missouri is in Pearl Harbor, so where is the Iowa?

McClellan, the general Lincoln said had "the slows".     :)

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #134: December 07, 2015, 05:07:54 PM »
McClellan, the general Lincoln said "had the slows".     :)
I think he kept a whole corps idle throughout the battle.  Didn't help that it was Burnside who hit the southern part of the battlefield.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #135: December 07, 2015, 06:04:23 PM »
Not sure Union generalship ultimately mattered much- the north had an industrial base and a large enough population disparity that they could throw men into the meat grinder much longer than the south could keep up with

Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #136: December 07, 2015, 07:02:11 PM »
It's easy to imagine England or another European power taking advantage of an opportunity had the traitors won decisively at Antietam. 
Not sure Union generalship ultimately mattered much- the north had an industrial base and a large enough population disparity that they could throw men into the meat grinder much longer than the south could keep up with

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #137: December 07, 2015, 07:49:18 PM »
It's easy to imagine England or another European power taking advantage of an opportunity had the traitors won decisively at Antietam. 

Crimea still would have been fresh in their memories, much easier to fight preindustrialized foes

Offline dracnal

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #138: December 08, 2015, 10:51:15 AM »
Turtledove did a pretty good series around the premise that the orders were recovered by Confederate troops. I read it at least a decade ago, which is why I got Gettysburg and Antietam mixed up. The general idea though was McClellan didn't stop Lee, Antietam didn't happen, and Lee crushed McClellan when they did meet.  Without a victory, Lincoln couldn't make the Emancipation Declaration (since it would have looked really hollow). That gave France enough to recognize the CSA as a sovereign power and lend aid and as a result, the country split in two.

The series is sort of an alternate history retelling of WWI, the reconstruction era and WWII. Not bad if you like Turtledove.

Offline Galah

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #139: December 08, 2015, 11:13:59 AM »

As an aside - the Wisconsin is in Norfolk, the New Jersey is in Camden, the Missouri is in Pearl Harbor, so where is the Iowa?
I imagine they recovered the guns, I believe they are lowered into place not 'bolted' in.

The Iowa is in LA.

I got to attend a reception on the mighty Mo when she was still an active battleship....pretty darn cool.


Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #140: December 08, 2015, 01:07:30 PM »
I imagine they recovered the guns, I believe they are lowered into place not 'bolted' in.

The Iowa is in LA.

I got to attend a reception on the mighty Mo when she was still an active battleship....pretty darn cool.


IIRC, didn't the blast that sunk the Arizona throw some of the turrets in the air?

Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #141: December 08, 2015, 01:14:21 PM »
Wow. I went aboard when it was docked in Bremerton before being recommissioned. Quite the boat.
I got to attend a reception on the mighty Mo when she was still an active battleship....pretty darn cool.

Offline mitlen

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #142: December 08, 2015, 01:15:28 PM »
IIRC, didn't the blast that sunk the Arizona throw some of the turrets in the air?

"Japanese aircraft appeared in the air over Pearl Harbor just before 8:00 am on this Sunday morning. The color detail was on deck in anticipation of raising the flag at the stern at 8:00. The Arizona came under attack almost immediately, and at about 8:10 received a hit by a 800-kilogram bomb just forward of turret two on the starboard side. Within a few seconds the forward powder magazines exploded, gutting the forward part of the ship. The foremast and forward superstructure collapsed forward into the void created by the explosion and turrets one and two, deprived of support, dropped more than 20 feet relative to their normal position. The explosion ignited furious fires in the forward part of the ship."

"During 1942 salvage work to recover as much of the ship as was practical began. The masts and superstructure were removed for scrap and the two turrets aft were salvaged for use at shore batteries on Hawaii. The forward part of the ship had received the most damage, and only the guns of turret two were removed while turret one was left in place. On December 1, 1942 the ship was stricken from the registry of U.S. Navy vessels."


With a hit on the magazine, I wouldn't doubt the turrets were thrown into the air.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #143: December 08, 2015, 03:42:26 PM »
There are a few other battleships still floating as museums.  The Massachusetts is tied up near the I-195 bridge in Fall River, MA.  You can spot it from the DCA-BOS shuttle if you know where to look.  I think the North Carolina is still around, too.  They used parts off of those ships when they reactivated the Iowa class in the 1980s.

Offline mitlen

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #144: December 08, 2015, 03:43:02 PM »
There are a few other battleships still floating as museums.  The Massachusetts is tied up near the I-195 bridge in Fall River, MA.  You can spot it from the DCA-BOS shuttle if you know where to look.  I think the North Carolina is still around, too.  They used parts off of those ships when they reactivated the Iowa class in the 1980s.

Saw one in Wilmington, NC a few years ago.

Offline skippy1999

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #145: December 08, 2015, 03:50:31 PM »
There are a few other battleships still floating as museums.  The Massachusetts is tied up near the I-195 bridge in Fall River, MA. 

thank you! I made my sister take me to Lizzie Borden's house when I was up in October and I was wondering what the heck base they had there, that explains that :)  The USS Alabama is tied up in Mobile, it's a museum/hurricane shelter of all things lol. 

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #146: December 08, 2015, 03:51:18 PM »
I think that is the North Carolina.  I think the Texas is still down in Houston or Galveston. That is a WWI-era ship, IIRC.  I think the Nevada was refloated and then, after service, sunk in an A-bomb test.

Only the Arizona, Oklahoma, and Utah among the Pearl Harbor battleships were never put back into commission.  I think there was also an oiler sunk (Neosha?) and two destroyers (the Cassin and the Downs) were combined into one ship. I am literally just doing this from memory.  Somebody check the wiki.

Offline dracnal

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #147: December 08, 2015, 04:03:35 PM »
I think that is the North Carolina.  I think the Texas is still down in Houston or Galveston. That is a WWI-era ship, IIRC.  I think the Nevada was refloated and then, after service, sunk in an A-bomb test.

Only the Arizona, Oklahoma, and Utah among the Pearl Harbor battleships were never put back into commission.  I think there was also an oiler sunk (Neosha?) and two destroyers (the Cassin and the Downs) were combined into one ship. I am literally just doing this from memory.  Somebody check the wiki.

The Wiki list:

Ships lost or damaged
Battleships

    Arizona (Kidd's flagship): hit by four armor-piercing bombs, exploded; total loss. 1,177 dead.
    Oklahoma: hit by five torpedoes, capsized; total loss. 429 dead. Refloated November 1943; capsized and lost while under tow to the mainland May 1947.
    West Virginia: hit by two bombs, seven torpedoes, sunk; returned to service July 1944. 106 dead.
    California: hit by two bombs, two torpedoes, sunk; returned to service January 1944. 100 dead.
    Nevada: hit by six bombs, one torpedo, beached; returned to service October 1942. 60 dead.
    Tennessee: hit by two bombs; returned to service February 1942. 5 dead.
    Maryland: hit by two bombs; returned to service February 1942. 4 dead (including floatplane pilot shot down).
    Pennsylvania (Kimmel's flagship):[112] in drydock with Cassin and Downes, hit by one bomb, debris from USS Cassin; remained in service. 9 dead.

Ex-battleship (target/AA training ship)

    Utah: hit by two torpedoes, capsized; total loss. 64 dead.

Cruisers

    Helena: hit by one torpedo; returned to service January 1942. 20 dead.
    Raleigh: hit by one torpedo; returned to service February 1942.
    Honolulu: Near miss, light damage; remained in service.

Destroyers

    Cassin: in drydock with Downes and Pennsylvania, hit by one bomb, burned; returned to service February 1944.
    Downes: in drydock with Cassin and Pennsylvania, caught fire from Cassin, burned; returned to service November 1943.
    Shaw: hit by three bombs; returned to service June 1942.

Auxiliaries

    Oglala (minelayer): Damaged by torpedo hit on Helena, capsized; returned to service (as engine-repair ship) February 1944.
    Vestal (repair ship): hit by two bombs, blast and fire from Arizona, beached; returned to service by August 1942.
    Curtiss (seaplane tender): hit by one bomb, one crashed Japanese aircraft; returned to service January 1942. 19 dead.

Offline mitlen

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #148: December 08, 2015, 04:05:43 PM »
The Wiki list:

Ships lost or damaged    ...

Thanks for the post.

Online tomterp

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Re: Rolling Thunder
« Reply #149: December 08, 2015, 04:12:04 PM »
I didn't realize so many of the badly damaged ships were able to return to service.