Author Topic: Question about Nats culture from a newbie (Astros refugee)  (Read 6344 times)

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Offline GNatsNoMore

  • Posts: 1175
Could it be the reason you feel this way is because you/we were without baseball for 33 years after the Senators were ripped away?    If the Expos arrived here without the previous Senators' history, would you feel differently?     Just curious because I've never "lost" my childhood team.

I feel the same way as Ray D.  I followed the expansion Senators very closely as a young boy from 1965 to 1971.  I'm sure at least a few seasons I listened to all 162 games on the radio.  I remember coming across my 7th grade journal that included a summary of all the highlights of Nats' games during the season and my feelings about the results. I remember watching Frank Howard, Eddie Brinkman, Ken McMullen, Camilo Pascual, Joe Coleman, Pete Richert and Paul Casanova play many times, and later, Dick Bosman, Darrol Knowles, Mike Epstein, Tim Cullen, and Del Unser, with Ted Williams managing.  I remember seeing Frank Howard hit some amazing 450 foot moonshots, but sometimes strike out with the bases loaded. 

I remember watching Orioles like Frank Robinson, Boog Powell, Brooks Robinson, Paul Blair, and Davey Johnson absolutely annihilate the Senators in doubleheaders on several occasions in DC/RFK Stadium.

So I was one of those who had baseball ripped away from me for 33 years.  Imagine how desperate for Major League baseball ex-Senators fans like me had to be in order to drive over to Balmer and adopt the despised Orioles team as our own (more or less) about 10 years later.   

One thing about many Washington baseball fans, especially those a bit older than me, such as Welch:  They had their hometown team (one of 8 1901 AL charter franchises, 1901-1960) stolen from them not once, but twice, within 11 years!  Name another MLB city in modern baseball history that went through that, and then had to be without a team for 33 years.

There's a very good reason the last game ever played by the Washington Senators in 1971 was before an angry and bitter crowd, and the game was forfeited.   See Shirley Povich's excellent column here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/longterm/general/povich/launch/senators2.htm
 
So in summary, like others, I'm not anti-Expos at all, however I have never completely forgiven MLB for denying us a team for 33 years (and I consider myself a rather forgiving sort, but some childhood wounds don't heal so well). 
 
(On the other hand, the first moment I walked into RFK in 2005 to take my young daughter to a game and saw the baseball field with a Washington team, it was like all these great memories of going to games with my Dad came flooding back to me.  That was maybe the best sports feeling/memory of my entire life). 

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Well, Montreal teams have won 24 Stanley Cups and 7 Grey Cups, so they have a wee bit more silverware in the municipal trophy case than we have down here  :?

Grey Cups :lmao: :lmao:

Offline DPMOmaha

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I'm not prone to anger. But that is the stupidest godamn thing I have ever heard anyone say.  I'm speechless.  You are a freaking idiot.
:shrug:

Offline Galah

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http://mentalfloss.com/article/55933/11-fantastic-french-phrases-baseball-terms

Hey, what the heck, why not add to the discussion with this neat little article from the inter webs.

Offline _sturt_

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Ya know, Ray D, I think it's a mixed bag... you go to the Minny site, and under history, you're altogether right... they don't make mention of the 24 team as far as my quick scan detected... but on the other hand, when you look at the "all time roster," the players are all there from the Senators beginning... and when you look at the year-by-year records, things go on back beyond 1961.

Too, remember that, as a newbie, I naturally bring an outsider perspective. I don't hold any of the passions yet that you and others do, so there's no malice in any way.

Offline _sturt_

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Good stuff, GNats.

Offline Vega

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Typically, I'd say that teams that move should leave the accomplishments of their former location at said former location, but it can get a bit weird if they keep the name though. For example, do the Colts have a claim to the Johnny Unitas championships, or do those belong to the Ravens now?

Offline Count Walewski

  • Posts: 2689
I would analogize the team relocation/mixed franchise identity to divorce and remarriage. Lots of people have very strong moral opinions about it and get emotional about those opinions, especially if it directly affected them. Many people believe its absolutely wrong in the abstract. But it happens all the time, it's part of the modern world.

Washington baseball fans (those who grew up here, at least) are like a family that has been through a number of divorces and remarriages. Some fans are not sure whether some people really count as relatives anymore or not.

Personally, I moved to Washington in 2010 and have no connection to either iteration of the Senators, though I've been taking steps to learn about them. I do think that the Expos heritage of the Nationals is kind of cool (the Expos were a nifty team) and I do happen to own an Expos t-shirt that I frequently wear to games. You do see a few people at each game wearing Expos stuff though most of them are hipsters rather than Quebecois who live in DC now for some reason. However, I do know a woman who grew up in Vermont as an Expos fan, then moved to DC after college, and was surprised to see her team follow her many years later.

I'm a-OK with the idea that the Nationals have at least four baseball teams they can claim as their ancestors in one way or another. There's room for all.

Offline welch

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I was a Pirates' kid.   That's why I commented that I never "lost" the team of my youth.   Oh, how we have different recollections of 1960.   BTW, I do have a Rocky Bridges' card in a Bucs' uni.   :P

Not so different memories of 1960. The Senators were on the move, a first-division team most of the year, even though Killebrew was hurt and Pascual got hurt around June or July. The team slipped into 5th place only after they shut down Pascual in late August. Even better things ahead: Killebrew (hit 30 homers even though injured) but would return fully healthy, Pascual healthy, Don Mincher showing promise as at 1B after most of the season in the minors. Earl Battey: finally a backbone catcher. Billy Gardner playing solid 2B. Lennie Green hitting .294 and playing cover-all CF; Lemon hitting 38 homers, Nats finally found a shortstop in Zorro Versalles; Jim Kaat seemed promising; young Don Lee pitching well. Team drew nearly 1 million in  stadium that nly sat 25,000, with only about 15,000 good seats.

We were ready for next year.

We hated the Yankees, and it was a delight to see the Pirates beat the Almighty Yankees in the Series. With no inter-league play, there was no reason to feel a rivalry with any NL team. Added interest:our old hero, Mickey Vernon, was a coach and sometime-player for the Pirates.

Calvin Griffith was wrapping up negotiations to move the Nats to the new DC Stadium, where the improved team was sure to draw over a million fans. Then Griffith announced that the Senators were leaving for Minneapolis. Gut-wrenching.

Offline welch

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To be clear, I welcome Expos fans to follow the Nationals. MLB did them dirt. Did it to us twice. Baseball feeling ran deeper in DC.  Washington had had professional teams back in the 1870s, named either the Nationals or the Senators; the city had had a National League team contracted in the late '90s, had a pair of owners, the Wagner Brothers, who were as bad as Bob Short and Jeff Luria.

I don't like getting a team from another city. and it's fitting that this team should start worse than the New Senators. Probably cost the team a few years of a fan base. However, Washington baseball fans are tough and loyal. We endure in the everlasting hope that the team will become good. Last few years, the Nats have been good. Plus the minors are stocked with good prospects. The Lerners have money, which the Griffith family did not...got started late building any sort of farm system. The three ownership grups that ran the New Senators were worse than the Griffith family. Lerners are different.

And this Nats team has won their first two games! 160 wins to go...

Offline ernie0326

  • Posts: 2113
I feel the same way as Ray D.  I followed the expansion Senators very closely as a young boy from 1965 to 1971.  I'm sure at least a few seasons I listened to all 162 games on the radio.  I remember coming across my 7th grade journal that included a summary of all the highlights of Nats' games during the season and my feelings about the results. I remember watching Frank Howard, Eddie Brinkman, Ken McMullen, Camilo Pascual, Joe Coleman, Pete Richert and Paul Casanova play many times, and later, Dick Bosman, Darrol Knowles, Mike Epstein, Tim Cullen, and Del Unser, with Ted Williams managing.  I remember seeing Frank Howard hit some amazing 450 foot moonshots, but sometimes strike out with the bases loaded. 

I remember watching Orioles like Frank Robinson, Boog Powell, Brooks Robinson, Paul Blair, and Davey Johnson absolutely annihilate the Senators in doubleheaders on several occasions in DC/RFK Stadium.

So I was one of those who had baseball ripped away from me for 33 years.  Imagine how desperate for Major League baseball ex-Senators fans like me had to be in order to drive over to Balmer and adopt the despised Orioles team as our own (more or less) about 10 years later.   

One thing about many Washington baseball fans, especially those a bit older than me, such as Welch:  They had their hometown team (one of 8 1901 AL charter franchises, 1901-1960) stolen from them not once, but twice, within 11 years!  Name another MLB city in modern baseball history that went through that, and then had to be without a team for 33 years.

There's a very good reason the last game ever played by the Washington Senators in 1971 was before an angry and bitter crowd, and the game was forfeited.   See Shirley Povich's excellent column here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/longterm/general/povich/launch/senators2.htm
 
So in summary, like others, I'm not anti-Expos at all, however I have never completely forgiven MLB for denying us a team for 33 years (and I consider myself a rather forgiving sort, but some childhood wounds don't heal so well). 
 
(On the other hand, the first moment I walked into RFK in 2005 to take my young daughter to a game and saw the baseball field with a Washington team, it was like all these great memories of going to games with my Dad came flooding back to me.  That was maybe the best sports feeling/memory of my entire life). 

Hear MFing Hear!! Although i NEVER EVER adopted the O's as "My team". MY team didn't play home games 34 miles from where I lived. Been to a couple of games at Camden Yards but other than that...NOPE couldn't do it. My heroes wore "Senators" across their chests. My dad took me to many an Opening Day at RFK so I totally understand how you felt in 2005.  :clap:

Offline expos1994

  • Posts: 339
I was an Expos fan. So this team will always be the former Montreal Expos to me.
However I'm also an American. Born and raised in the heartland of America (Iowa). I became an Expos fan as a young lad because of a single-A affiliate near my hometown. (Burlington Bees). Being an American I'm glad they are now in America and the nation's capital. I think it's great. And now my Cubs/Cardinals friends had to stop calling me a dirty Canadian.

Offline tomterp

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I feel the same way as Ray D.  I followed the expansion Senators very closely as a young boy from 1965 to 1971.  I'm sure at least a few seasons I listened to all 162 games on the radio.  I remember coming across my 7th grade journal that included a summary of all the highlights of Nats' games during the season and my feelings about the results. I remember watching Frank Howard, Eddie Brinkman, Ken McMullen, Camilo Pascual, Joe Coleman, Pete Richert and Paul Casanova play many times, and later, Dick Bosman, Darrol Knowles, Mike Epstein, Tim Cullen, and Del Unser, with Ted Williams managing.  I remember seeing Frank Howard hit some amazing 450 foot moonshots, but sometimes strike out with the bases loaded. 

I remember watching Orioles like Frank Robinson, Boog Powell, Brooks Robinson, Paul Blair, and Davey Johnson absolutely annihilate the Senators in doubleheaders on several occasions in DC/RFK Stadium.

So I was one of those who had baseball ripped away from me for 33 years.  Imagine how desperate for Major League baseball ex-Senators fans like me had to be in order to drive over to Balmer and adopt the despised Orioles team as our own (more or less) about 10 years later.   

One thing about many Washington baseball fans, especially those a bit older than me, such as Welch:  They had their hometown team (one of 8 1901 AL charter franchises, 1901-1960) stolen from them not once, but twice, within 11 years!  Name another MLB city in modern baseball history that went through that, and then had to be without a team for 33 years.

There's a very good reason the last game ever played by the Washington Senators in 1971 was before an angry and bitter crowd, and the game was forfeited.   See Shirley Povich's excellent column here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/longterm/general/povich/launch/senators2.htm
 
So in summary, like others, I'm not anti-Expos at all, however I have never completely forgiven MLB for denying us a team for 33 years (and I consider myself a rather forgiving sort, but some childhood wounds don't heal so well). 
 
(On the other hand, the first moment I walked into RFK in 2005 to take my young daughter to a game and saw the baseball field with a Washington team, it was like all these great memories of going to games with my Dad came flooding back to me.  That was maybe the best sports feeling/memory of my entire life).

I could have written that.  I was at that last game in '71, and seeing the field for the first time when the team returned (the exhibition game vs. the Mets at RFK) it was quite emotional for me to see that green grass, the stadium once again configured for baseball. 

Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

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Bees, represent!     

I was an Expos fan. So this team will always be the former Montreal Expos to me.
However I'm also an American. Born and raised in the heartland of America (Iowa). I became an Expos fan as a young lad because of a single-A affiliate near my hometown. (Burlington Bees). Being an American I'm glad they are now in America and the nation's capital. I think it's great. And now my Cubs/Cardinals friends had to stop calling me a dirty Canadian.


Offline GNatsNoMore

  • Posts: 1175
I could have written that.  I was at that last game in '71, and seeing the field for the first time when the team returned (the exhibition game vs. the Mets at RFK) it was quite emotional for me to see that green grass, the stadium once again configured for baseball. 

I was a little overcome with a sweet, joyful feeling I can't quite explain the first time back in RFK for baseball in 2005, a little like seeing an old long lost friend (or going home).  Funny, I had been to RFK for several rock concerts in the 70s, and to DC United matches more recently, but it never felt familiar or special without the baseball configuration.

One more memory I have of DC/RFK stadium was going to bat day in the sixties.  I remember the sound of thousands of kid's bats pounding rhythmically together on the concrete echoing across the stadium whenever we were trying to spur the Senators batters on to start a rally.  Amazingly, I think I still have that bat around my house somewhere.

Offline spidernat

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Saw a dude wearing a Dennis Martinez expos jersey today at the game.

Offline Baseball is Life

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I could have written that.  I was at that last game in '71, and seeing the field for the first time when the team returned (the exhibition game vs. the Mets at RFK) it was quite emotional for me to see that green grass, the stadium once again configured for baseball. 

I went to my first MLB game in that last season and started to develop an attachment to that team right before it was taken away from us.

The greatest sports memory ever for me will be that first game in 2005 when baseball returned. The sight of seeing grown men (and women) cry really spoke to how important this game and this team is to Washington.

Offline tomterp

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I went to my first MLB game in that last season and started to develop an attachment to that team right before it was taken away from us.

The greatest sports memory ever for me will be that first game in 2005 when baseball returned. The sight of seeing grown men (and women) cry really spoke to how important this game and this team is to Washington.

Those weren't tears, I just had a little lint under both of my contact lenses.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Saw a dude wearing a Dennis Martinez expos jersey today at the game.
He should be the honorary Presidente in the Presidente race.