Author Topic: Unofficial Compromise DH Rule Testing Lab thread (Nats fans edition)  (Read 16221 times)

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Offline Minty Fresh

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Does that mean you feel the Pennant is the real goal and the World Series is just an afterthought? Not trolling - serious question.

No.  I liked that each league could be independent of each other and the only time they played was the World Series.  You took the champion of one league and pitted them against the champion of the other league - teams who never saw each other during the regular season - and determined the ultimate winner.  Great drama.  Now when the Royals play the Giants in the World Series you can easily say, "yeah but I've seen this before."

Plus, I think if you eliminate inter-league play, you could easily shave 30-40 games off the schedule and not suffer at all.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Does that mean you feel the Pennant is the real goal and the World Series is just an afterthought? Not trolling - serious question.

I'm probably alone in this, but I wish they'd go to pennants going to regular season best record and world series being contested between those two teams (I know it'll never happen, but I really think  162 game season should mean something)

Offline Minty Fresh

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I'm probably alone in this, but I wish they'd go to pennants going to regular season best record and world series being contested between those two teams (I know it'll never happen, but I really think  162 game season should mean something)

I like that.  No divisions, just one big league standings.  The years where there's a runaway favorite would lead to some horrible games in September though.  And if maximizing entertainment is the goal then eliminating playoffs would prove counter-productive.

Offline HalfSmokes

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I like that.  No divisions, just one big league standings.  The years where there's a runaway favorite would lead to some horrible games in September though.  And if maximizing entertainment is the goal then eliminating playoffs would prove counter-productive.

for it to even remotely work, I think you'd need other tournaments though out the year to maintain interest - I just don't like the fact that 162 games comes down to a 5 game series

Offline blue911

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Plus, I think if you eliminate inter-league play, you could easily shave 30-40 games off the schedule and not suffer at all.

That's a dumb freaking idea.


Oh wait, I forgot we went to college.


I say old bean you seem to be amiss in your thought processes.

Offline Minty Fresh

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That's a dumb freaking idea.


Oh wait, I forgot we went to college.


I say old bean you seem to be amiss in your thought processes.

Top drawer, blue!  Top . . . Drawer!

Offline _sturt_

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Yourself included.  So why start it?

Yes, myself included.

I'm an arrogant SOB on this issue because I've spent a whole lot of time thinking through all of the cracks and crevices and have spent a whole lot of time considering the curves and ups-and-downs of this issue.

That's different from someone, for instance, who hasn't credibly argued with himself enough to recognize that the stadium difference argument only holds water if you have half of the teams being allowed to establish their own stadium dimensions, and the other half of the teams not allowed to do so.

And that's far different from someone who says "The DH rule is a dumb rule because it's a dumb rule."

For those people, all they can think about is what a condescending prick (... I think that was Smokes term...) I am.

Sure, I have to admit, I can come across that way, but it's because I'm passionate and I've studied it and written about it over the last several years from every angle.

Others just have a Pavlovian response like the one above... or if more than that, just a little more.

Not only is there not as much thought given to the subject, worse, there often is an inclination to get defensive when it becomes apparent that there is, not a difference in intelligence mind you, but simply a difference in how much intensive time has been spent thinking the subject through.

Yes, I have a predetermined opinion, but it's one thing to have a predetermined opinion that has emerged from allowing oneself to be immersed in an ocean of previous thought and discussion, respectfully considering all sides, and trying to take an objective approach; quite another to have a predetermined opinion based on "well, it's just this way."

I think that's actually the key here.

When I engage others who appear to be like me in having ventured into that ocean and have attempted some objectivity and, accordingly, have something more than a knee-jerk opinion to offer... it typically ends up being a pretty productive conversation--they often give me something new to think about, as much as I do them.

Arrogant though it may be to say, I have reason to be confident that very, very few, if any, (ie, who have posted to this thread thus far anyhow) have contemplated this issue beyond that knee-jerk "pro or anti" DH level.

So, naturally, if that's all they've ever thought about it, and thus, if the very idea of a compromise rule hasn't even crossed their minds anymore than it would if someone asked me to try sushi (instant rejection), then to talk about actual compromise rule possibilities ends up, naturally, getting some of the reaction you and some others have given.

There's no reason for me to try sushi.

There is reason, however... reason...  for you and me as fans to think about the incoherence of major league baseball's system, and... don't stop there... more precisely... the reasons why NFL nor NBA nor any other league has ever had half of its teams play by one rule and the other half by another rule.

If one zooms out and approaches it objectively...

- MLB did what it did out of a legitimate business motive--they went ahead and allowed a pure DH rule to be established for one half of the teams because Charlie Finley and other AL owners decided they needed to remedy lagging interest--thus, consciously setting aside any concerns about ripple effects and unintended consequences for the promise of doing better what business does--making a profit

- Surprisingly to some who thought the NL would eventually cave, and thus re-unite the leagues under one rule book, they didn't. That didn't happen. And if history is the best indicator of future behavior... 40 years says it won't.

- MLB is doing what any smart business is doing for now--keep status quo, so as to not risk aggravating one half or the other of the customer base.

- NFL and all other major revenue sports continue to do what is and has always been just intuitive--one set of rules for all... not half and half... and one championship.

- Over time, U.S. consumers are indisiputably becoming better educated, and by association, U.S consumers of sports entertainment are, as well...

- As a result, pressure will naturally mount over time for MLB to resolve the incoherence they've turned a blind eye to, returning to the same level of integrity for their championship that the other sports leagues have always held. I've noted my own anecdotal experience this season that I'm finding more than before... not a large number... that's not what I said... but a noticeably greater number than before... saying just that--that they see the incoherence and they think there should be one rule, whether that's their favorite rule, the other side's favorite rule, or something else. (Again, I do agree with Smokes... I need to start logging that when I see it.)

So... "why start it?," you ask...

That's why I start it.

People are talking more about it, present tense, and since it's one of my pet issues to begin with, I kinda notice that kind of thing. And, that's as anyone should have predicted it would be... a more educated society isn't comfortable with things that don't make sense.

And, because, it's a discussion board, and we tend to discuss things... especially things where there are new ideas to be discussed.

You claim to have the moral highground and that popularity doesn't seem to dictate whether something is "right" or not - yet you seem to be BEGGING to have the popular opinion in your favor.

I don't think I ever said anything about a "moral high ground," did I? For whatever reason, those are words you chose to use to describe my position.

But indeed, do you argue otherwise?... ie, that popularity dictates what ought to be or not? Is that what your mother taught you? Is that what you teach your children?

I bet she didn't. I bet you don't. That kind of thinking is the kind that allowed society to hold on to many stupid things for way too long... don't you agree?

Maybe you're too young... I'm almost too young... to remember "I'm sorry, but you need to drink from that other fountain because that's just how we all think it should be."

And you're entitled to call it "begging," just as I'm entitled to call it "encouraging."

To anyone wishing I'd "STFU," as you evidently do, it's not surprising that you'd want to cast me as someone desperately evangelizing.

Just as, it shouldn't surprise you that I see myself as asking people... asking... and supporting my ask with rationale... asking customers of this entertainment business... to

(a) critically think about the topic beyond the binary, shallow framework that has dominated the discussion...

(b) to not be afraid to acknowledge the silliness of having teams built to play according to two different rules compete for one championship... and to

(c) think like and talk like an adult who respects others' preferences enough to consider how both polarities can be accommodated as we reunify the game.



Online varoadking

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Quote
  "The DH rule is a dumb rule because it's a dumb rule." 

Embrace the concept.  It will set you free...  ;)

Offline _sturt_

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quoted post deleted by mods

When you're ready to engage the topic rather than avoiding it by attempting some personal attack, I'll be  here.

Not holding my breath, of course. For obvious reasons.

But I'll be here.

Offline Minty Fresh

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But I'll be here.

That's kinda my point.  :lmao:

This is why baseball is now the third most followed sport in America and is sure to fall behind soccer pretty soon.

Offline _sturt_

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Offline HalfSmokes

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This is why baseball is now the third most followed sport in America and is sure to fall behind soccer pretty soon.

baseball does fine with what it is- a sport where local teams are popular with a smaller number of people following the sport as a whole (as opposed the the NBA or NFL where tons of fans watch no matter what team is on)

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Please, just refer to Randy Johnson when you want to talk about Big Units.

Offline Minty Fresh

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Please, just refer to Randy Johnson when you want to talk about Big Units.

Why did you delete my response to HalfSmokes?

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Why did you delete my response to HalfSmokes?
tripping over Randy Johnson. Just too much Randy Johnson mentions.  I know we are playing Arizona, but . . .

Offline Minty Fresh

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tripping over Randy Johnson. Just too much Randy Johnson mentions.  I know we are playing Arizona, but . . .

Wow.  That's weak.


Offline Minty Fresh

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It takes a position already being complained about as too specialized and specializes it further.

No.

Online KnorrForYourMoney

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Sturt, can you explain things a little more thoroughly?  I think I need a more detailed explanation of your points, so that I can wrap my head around them.  Thank you.

Offline Minty Fresh

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  • Oh you call what you got a team?
Sturt, can you explain things a little more thoroughly?  I think I need a more detailed explanation of your points, so that I can wrap my head around them.  Thank you.

:clap:  :clap:  :clap:



Offline UMDNats

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I haven't read a single Sturt post but judging by the length of his posts I'm going to assume he's an OWG.

Offline _sturt_

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It's like that thing where certain kids would probably excel except they don't want to be labeled by all the "cool" kids as being too smart, so they lay low... and of course, it's important to the "cool" kids to police it all just that way so they can retain some social standing.

It really is.


Offline Natsinpwc

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Stick to short bullet points for us busy posters. 

Pictures can help also to get your point across.

Just pretend you have 30 seconds on the elevator with the CEO to get your point across. If the door closes while you are still on your first thought you probably missed your chance.


Online varoadking

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Stick to short bullet points for us busy posters. 

Pictures can help also to get your point across.

Just pretend you have 30 seconds on the elevator with the CEO to get your point across. If the door closes while you are still on your first thought you probably missed your chance.

Have I showed you my glow-in-the-dark cat hat concept?  Never lose your cat again...

Offline _sturt_

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Natsinpwc, see your inbox. :)

Online KnorrForYourMoney

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It's like that thing where certain kids would probably excel except they don't want to be labeled by all the "cool" kids as being too smart, so they lay low... and of course, it's important to the "cool" kids to police it all just that way so they can retain some social standing.

It really is.



I just wanted you to explain your concept.  It sounded really interesting.