Author Topic: The Future of Baseball Somewhere in Florida - PBC - Where the Boys Are  (Read 16412 times)

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Offline OldChelsea

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[...]--The $650,000 in annual promotions that the Nats are offering were itemized:
----A Kissimmee Day each year at Nats Park
----A booth at Fan Fest
----Email blasts to the fan base
----Ads on MASN, one per game and an extra one per series
----An Experience Kissimmee store at Nats Park, 300 square feet
----Two lighted signs in Nats Park
----A giant sign on the parking garage (the guy said that the sign would be visible from the street but the picture had it facing the Red Loft)
----Kissimmee ads in the team yearbook and Inside Pitch
----A link on the Nats web page
[...]

OH WOW MAN!!!

Feel the excitement!!!...instead of taking my vacations in London and elsewhere in Europe I'm going to start holidaying in a beastly-hot, humid, transit-less, crime/vermin-infested place with nothing to see like Kissimmee instead...NOT.

Offline PowerBoater69

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OH WOW MAN!!!

Feel the excitement!!!...instead of taking my vacations in London and elsewhere in Europe I'm going to start holidaying in a beastly-hot, humid, transit-less, crime/vermin-infested place with nothing to see like Kissimmee instead...NOT.


Ha! Yep, they have a long way to go. Although it is nicer than DC in March and Gatorland is a fun half day trip.

Offline PowerBoater69

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I Googled up the locations of some of the hotels and restaurants of the big players both for and against the ballpark and they are mostly on the far western edge of the county, right across I-4 from Disney, less than a mile from the Braves park.  The more high end places see their business coming from the Disney tourists and spending big money on the central and eastern parts of the county would not net them much return.  The Holiday Inn guy is a bit cheaper so he's selling blocks of rooms to the Astros and USSSA, even though he's a 15-20 minute drive from the actual ballpark.

The western portion of the county doesn't want the deal, they're too far removed from Disney and the ballpark to see a direct impact and they don't have an interest in promoting tourism.  So the question is, why build in central Osceola?  Kissimmee is not a pretty place, it's blighted and makes the news mostly based on crime reports.  There are no nice hotels and hardly anything worth seeing.  This project would be like the creation of Las Vegas on a much smaller scale, a big giant expense in the middle of nowhere with the idea of turning it into a hot spot. The big difference is that Kissimmee has already failed once.  The Astros were supposed to bring in hotels and restaurants and economic development but that plan obviously crashed and burned.  Not that the ballpark was an economic disaster, just that it was not the "economic generator" that the Nats are promising with their plan.

Meanwhile the online petition against the ballpark has reached a grand total of 364 signatures from a county with over a quarter of a million people. And a good number of the people signing on are Osceola land owners who are not voting residents.  So the idea that making this deal will cause the commissioners to get voted out of office likely is not going to happen.

The verdict: if I were on the council I would vote against the deal based on the lack of development around the existing stadium, they are dreaming if they think they are going to turn their county into a mecca for tourists and businesses based on the Washington Nationals. 

My prediction: it passes, Q switches his vote and the deal is done.  PB69 is in attendance on opening day 2016.  The high end real estate mandated by the deal is not in place by 2021.

----------------------
Three new articles:

http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/morning_call/2013/08/osceola-commission-may-vote-tonight-on.html
http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2013/8/19/vote_tonight_in_osce.html
http://www.aroundosceola.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=14625:county-commission-to-vote-monday-on-new-baseball-stadium-project&catid=27&Itemid=138

The third one includes the quote below about the Nats paying $800K in annual rent and that number nearly doubling over the term of the lease. Everything else I've read has the starting number at $600K so I'm not sure if the number changed or if this is a typo.  This is also the first I've read about an escalation of the annual rent, although that makes sense considering how low it is at the start.

Quote
the Nationals paying nothing regarding construction costs and only being required to pay an annual rent that would start at $800,000 and escalate to $1.5 million over a 30-year lease.

Online HalfSmokes

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OH WOW MAN!!!

Feel the excitement!!!...instead of taking my vacations in London and elsewhere in Europe I'm going to start holidaying in a beastly-hot, humid, transit-less, crime/vermin-infested place with nothing to see like Kissimmee instead...NOT.

land locked random town in florida- it's the place to go

Offline PowerBoater69

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PDF with the projected numbers, I won't have time to look at this until tonight. I assume this is from the county and not from the opposition.



ksib.net/media/blogs/carl-cricket/TDTCashFlowwith1-7and2-25percentgrowthrates.pdf?mtime=1376910614

Offline PowerBoater69

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Here is the latest from the anti ballpark petition web page:

Quote
There are other concerns with the stadium construction we want to highlight:

1) The Nats have sole discretion in the selection and fee/contract negotiation of architect and construction manager.
2) The total fees for both above in the budget are approximately $5 million above industry average.
3) The county has minimal input during the design process. Can only comment on major deviations from design requirements.
4) The county has very little control of changes made during construction, only "material changes" that are not defined.
5) The county has only three days to review the final construction costs
6) Budgeted costs for team clubhouse at $235/sf seems excessive
7) $6,000,000 for furniture and equipment seems excessive.
8) Nationals have control of any project savings, and can spend those savings without County consent.
Bottom Line: County has almost no control of the construction process.
Finally, we hear that Lerner Development doesn't pay bills in a timely fashion!


The bottom line is that the Lerners are taking on the risk for cost over runs so of course they get the final say in all design decisions. Considering their expertise in this area, giving them a fixed priced contact to produce the ballpark is one of the best parts of this deal for the county.

I'd agree that the cost of furnishings is a bit high, but once again, with a fixed price the Lerners can decide to cut corners on the locker room set up if there are over runs elsewhere.

As for the Lerners being late paying their rent, I wonder where the guys down in Osceola heard that one?

Offline TigerFan

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$6M for furniture and equipment?  This place will be nicer than some MLB clubhouses I'm guessing if it goes through. 

Offline PowerBoater69

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$6M for furniture and equipment?  This place will be nicer than some MLB clubhouses I'm guessing if it goes through. 

Yeah, I've said that I could care less about whether the players are comfy. But the argument for a nice club house is that it helps when showing off the facilities to potential free agents. Makes the millionaire ballplayers feel wanted.

Offline Mattionals

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Any word yet?  Or is it tonight or something?

Offline PowerBoater69

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Any word yet?  Or is it tonight or something?


5:30 is the vote, I'm not sure how the info will be released.

Offline TigerFan

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5:30 is the vote, I'm not sure how the info will be released.

It's a 5 person vote right?  You'd think it would be announced almost immediately. 

Offline Copecwby20

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The verdict: if I were on the council I would vote against the deal based on the lack of development around the existing stadium, they are dreaming if they think they are going to turn their county into a mecca for tourists and businesses based on the Washington Nationals. 



But they did such a good job at making the area around Nats Park a nightlife hotspot... I can't wait to see what they pull off in Florida.  :roll:

Offline PowerBoater69

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It's a 5 person vote right?  You'd think it would be announced almost immediately. 


I just got home and turned on the live stream, they are talking about some other issue right now.  I'm not sure if they'll vote right away or have another debate like last time.

http://www.osceola.org/meetingsportal/265-10013-0/county_meetings/MeetingDetail/3110.cfm?CFID=819284&CFTOKEN=27449ef108090a94-64680F8C-782B-CB32-72C405098588BEF9&jsessionid=8830b6798525761330d817757d7565d744f7TR

Offline PowerBoater69

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Just starting now

Offline PowerBoater69

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Changes to the contract:
--$800K->$1.5mil rent increase confirmed - believed to be the highest "fixed rent" in MLB for a spring training ballpark
--County handles security costs
--$3 surcharge goes to county
--10% local subs - both total percent and bid range
--Allow zoning for a firearms manufacturer and improvements for existing structures for neighboring lots
--Added signs behind home plate at Nats Park for certain innings - including playoffs

20-30 speakers - 3 minutes each - probably got most of the names wrong

--Andres - represents Americans for Prosperity - opposed - no real argument, just against corporate welfare
--Peggy - Civilla Inn - opposed - represents Rt. 192 small hotel owners - they pay the tax that is being used for the stadium - they want the TDT money to help promote and grow their own businesses
--Rabin - Paradise Inn - opposed - small hotel owner - business is really hurting right now - wants TDT funds
--Patel - Record Hotel - original hotel owner - changes in the county are hurting them, expect this to hurt too, wants growth for existing businesses
--Wong - Celebration Suites - opposed - prayed for right decision
--Chin - opposed - low return on investment, used quotes from economists who contradict county economists numbers, greatly inflated multipliers - most of the benefits won't stay in Osceola
--Suell - opposed - county is struggling, why spend money on luxury item, Astros did not pay off, why make the same investment again - spend the money as originally intended on a visitors bureau.
--Karen - in favor - "Sports equals tourism in Osceola", supports the practice fields, "the Nationals would be a bonus"
--Chris Titus - opposed - prefers to wait, would prefer using existing stadium, want more info on other projects, what's the rush
--Bill - Radisson Hotel - in favor - wants Nats and for USSSA to stay
--Jeff - Villa Direct Vacation Homes - opposed - why spend bed taxes on a project that does not benefit hotels, he's never seen a single Astros fan rent a room in Osceola
--Sonny - in favor - Amateur sports is the biggest tourism driver in Osceola
--Teffini, same crazy guy from the last meeting --- holy crap that dude is funny, told a story about the Declaration of Independance and slavery and who stinks the most, then his phone went off and he blamed the bill collectors.  Said the Nats stink for using injured soldiers in their promotion for the ballpark.  Said the slum lords stink for crying about the poor people in the county.  Said the Nats stink worst.
Moore - Westgate Resorts - no idea what he supports, boring compared to the last guy
Nigel - local HOA - opposed
Mark - ORAC - opposed - also wants to wait for other projects to be decided
Mark - Chair of the board of the chamber of commerce - asking for a delay - wants to upgrade existing stadium
Mark - must wait until February 15th to find out if Gaylord project is moving forward

Art again - this is not "an incredible deal for the Nationals", it will draw the ire of the other MLB owners. Nats cannot wait until February, they need to move forward. If we leave the Braves might follow as they would have no one else close to play against.

Time to vote...

Offline comish4lif

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Quote
--Allow zoning for a firearms manufacturer and improvements for existing structures for neighboring lots

Ahh Florida. It never disappoints.


Offline TigerFan

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Lot of opposition it sounds like. 

Offline TigerFan

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Ahh Florida. It never disappoints.

They've got to be manufactured someplace, right?

Offline PowerBoater69

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Not looking good for the Nats - the swing vote is going to vote no.

Offline comish4lif

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They've got to be manufactured someplace, right?
Not if you ask me. But that's for a different thread.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Commissioners now speaking:
--Arrington - opposed - not happy with the tone of the opposition, does not help land big projects when the locals trash the businesses on line.  Not completely against it, wants a delay. Wants more state funding, wants to try to get a second team in, wants to get the Gaylord decision made.  Motioned for delay, seconded by Quinones
--Quinones - opposed - wants a vote today so that the Nats and the locals can move forward and not have to return in February

Arrington was a Yes vote and Quinones was a maybe.  It's not going to happen

Offline PowerBoater69

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--Quinones was going to demand naming rights and Nats to pay operating costs, does not want a delay "if the deal stinks today it's gonna stink tomorrow", had some other idea about adding tolls to the ballpark. No idea what this guy is saying
--Hawkins - also wants a delay, but wants to respect Nats request to make final vote today. Highest rent, but also highest cost for a spring training park.  The contract is back loaded, which puts a burden on the future commission because they will have to make more improvements to the ballpark or risk the Nats demanding lower rent or leaving early.  Wants a check from the Nats up front.  Too high a cost for too many low wage jobs.  "If this project is so great, why is Osceola the only one in the bidding?"  Seconded motion, wishes the Nats best of luck finding a new home.
 


Offline monkeyhit

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Offline PowerBoater69

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--Harford - Disney does lose money on the Braves, but they get the money from the hotel nights, if it works for Disney why are we different?  If the Nats move, USSSA will move, the Braves may move.  Gaylord may not happen.  If we wait we may be waiting for things that will never happen. The poorer hotels aren't just going to start getting higher room nights unless they attract people willing to pay more, not just fixing up the hotel, they need an attraction.  Does Osceola want to be known as just the cheapest place to stay near Disney? We have no Plan B. I can do the math, I see where we're at, but I believe that by turning this down we are putting ourselves in a box.  Is the deal perfect, no, but the public was sold on one side of this.  Are we going to build a gateway instead, how is that good for anything?  Believes that the central part of the county has just as much right for tourism development as the west side.
--Attkisson thanked the Nats, respects the Nats, voting against the deal, offers existing stadium.

Offline PowerBoater69

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--Attkisson - didn't like the lack of a liquidation clause defining how to resolve the breaking of the lease.  Wanted to have seen guaranteed return on county investment dollars and wanted guaranteed room nights. 

Voting starting for real.  Vote is to decline 4-1