Author Topic: The Empty Set - HoF Class of 2013  (Read 1526 times)

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Offline blue911

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The Empty Set - HoF Class of 2013
« Topic Start: January 08, 2013, 05:48:04 PM »
Votes to be revealed tomorrow

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Hall of Fame Class of 2013
« Reply #1: January 08, 2013, 05:52:30 PM »
Apparently no one from the ballot is going to get in. Only those from the Veterans Committee.

Offline blue911

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Re: Hall of Fame Class of 2013
« Reply #2: January 08, 2013, 08:29:06 PM »
I'm going to be pissed if Edgar gets freaked

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Hall of Fame Class of 2013
« Reply #3: January 08, 2013, 08:30:05 PM »
way to screw over the businesses of Cooperstown

Offline imref

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Re: Hall of Fame Class of 2013
« Reply #4: January 08, 2013, 10:18:38 PM »
I'd like to see Piazza make it, but he probably won't get in for a few years.

Offline Vega

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Re: Hall of Fame Class of 2013
« Reply #5: January 08, 2013, 10:28:33 PM »
HOF voting is a farce.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Hall of Fame Class of 2013
« Reply #6: January 08, 2013, 10:57:54 PM »
I'd like to see Piazza make it, but he probably won't get in for a few years.

I think it'll be a while before a power hitter gets in

Offline imref

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Re: Hall of Fame Class of 2013
« Reply #7: January 08, 2013, 11:30:16 PM »
Schilling is another guy who I think ought to get in but probably won't for a while.

And then there's Jack Morris...

Offline nobleisthyname

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Re: Hall of Fame Class of 2013
« Reply #8: January 09, 2013, 12:19:41 AM »
Maybe I'm a bit too lenient but in my opinion there are so many deserving candidates in this class.

Even excluding known or heavily suspected PED users (which I'm not a fan of) you have:

Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Edgar Martinez
Larry Walker
Curt Schilling
Kenny Lofton

All of whom belong in the hall. It sucks because I'm sure players like Lofton won't even receive enough votes to stay on the ballot.

Offline CALSGR8

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Re: Hall of Fame Class of 2013
« Reply #9: January 09, 2013, 12:41:58 AM »
B&B boys should have gotten in!

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Hall of Fame Class of 2013
« Reply #10: January 09, 2013, 06:43:50 AM »
Lee Smith and Edgar or GTFO.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: Hall of Fame Class of 2013
« Reply #11: January 09, 2013, 08:15:40 AM »
Maybe I'm a bit too lenient but in my opinion there are so many deserving candidates in this class.

Even excluding known or heavily suspected PED users (which I'm not a fan of) you have:

Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Edgar Martinez
Larry Walker
Curt Schilling
Kenny Lofton

All of whom belong in the hall. It sucks because I'm sure players like Lofton won't even receive enough votes to stay on the ballot.

Bagwell and Piazza are both suspected.

Offline tomterp

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Re: Hall of Fame Class of 2013
« Reply #12: January 09, 2013, 08:19:13 AM »
Tim Raines is deserving.

Offline Coladar

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Re: Hall of Fame Class of 2013
« Reply #13: January 09, 2013, 08:29:56 AM »
Are there going to be *any* classes for the next several years that won't have suspected PED users who, on numbers alone, should get in? The longer Selig and company try to sweep it under the rug and act like it doesn't exist, and neither do the suspected players, the bigger a mockery they make of both the HoF and an entire era of baseball.

In other words, too many players did it to exclude any and everyone merely "suspected."

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Hall of Fame Class of 2013
« Reply #14: January 09, 2013, 08:32:31 AM »
Walker I think is also a suspect.  I'm a Walker fan. 

I wonder if modern, shorter peak, pre-steroid guys should be reconsidered for the Hall.  Dale Murphy and Don Mattingly come to mind.  Murphy's back to back MVPs and his power in CF make him kind of exceptional relative to his peers, and the travel demands now probably wear on modern players who play naturally more than 50s and earlier travel.  Maybe you need to measure the 60s - mid-80s offensive players, and the post-2005 players, on the metric system rather than the same scale as pre-60s and steroid era guys.  I don't know what I really think about this.

Offline OldChelsea

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Re: Hall of Fame Class of 2013
« Reply #15: January 09, 2013, 09:12:54 AM »
Votes to be revealed tomorrow

...per the HOF website, the exact time will be 14.00 today.

Offline Coladar

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Re: Hall of Fame Class of 2013
« Reply #16: January 09, 2013, 09:41:07 AM »
Walker I think is also a suspect.  I'm a Walker fan. 

I wonder if modern, shorter peak, pre-steroid guys should be reconsidered for the Hall.  Dale Murphy and Don Mattingly come to mind.  Murphy's back to back MVPs and his power in CF make him kind of exceptional relative to his peers, and the travel demands now probably wear on modern players who play naturally more than 50s and earlier travel.  Maybe you need to measure the 60s - mid-80s offensive players, and the post-2005 players, on the metric system rather than the same scale as pre-60s and steroid era guys.  I don't know what I really think about this.

Well, here's one thing your post brought to mind. I'd note I've totally reversed my opinion on this. I still think Mark McG getting in would be a travesty and anathema to my beliefs on the game. He was arrogant, lied, broke a record he had no business breaking by cheating. Screw him, and screw the god damned Cardinals for hiring him as a hitting coach. I hate the team enough for our final game this year, but he pours acid into a gaping wound. As much as l dislike him, logically I couldn't argue against his election so long as I believe the following, which I currently do. I think that's actually a main issue: Clemens and Bonds and Marky are detested and iconic of PEDs, which is why no one labeled a suspected user will see their name enshrined.

But most players did it in the 90s. My thoughts - We allow freaking dead ball era players in. Their stats sure as crap aren't equatable. HoF should be in perspective of the era. The 90s were filled with cheating jerks, but since most did so then it's a level playing field. It's not like the top twenty players cheated and everyone else didn't. Most did, most stats are relative to other PED users, and so these "suspected' guys don't really have the massive advantage over everyone else. They just performed well enough that attention fell on them while Mr. .220 Career PED went unnoticed.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Hall of Fame Class of 2013
« Reply #17: January 09, 2013, 09:42:33 AM »
I think it should be all or none- either ban everyone from the era, or just ignore PEDs, trying to guess who was clean and who wasn't is ridiculous

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: Hall of Fame Class of 2013
« Reply #18: January 09, 2013, 09:53:55 AM »
I don't think an all or nothing answer works, either.  I want to see Griffey in the Hall, for example.  Best we can do is muddle our way through.  Nobody will be perfectly happy with it, but that fits with what that era has come to represent (Barry Bonds Jr. holds the home run record, etc.).

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Hall of Fame Class of 2013
« Reply #19: January 09, 2013, 10:04:23 AM »
Is there any more proof that Griffey was clean or dirty than Piazza? That's the problem with the  'we think he maybe did something' approach

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: Hall of Fame Class of 2013
« Reply #20: January 09, 2013, 11:27:53 AM »
There are problems with every approach.  Keeping everyone out or putting everyone in are going to leave just as many people dissatisfied with the result.  Leave it up to the best judgement of the voters - that's what I think is the best way to deal with it.

Offline mitlen

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Re: Hall of Fame Class of 2013
« Reply #21: January 09, 2013, 12:19:48 PM »
Just create a "Cheating/PED/Gambling" wing.    That way you can get Rose and these clowns in.

Offline blue911

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Re: Hall of Fame Class of 2013
« Reply #22: January 09, 2013, 12:37:05 PM »
Just create a "Cheating/PED/Gambling" wing.    That way you can get Rose and these clowns in.

Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker bet on baseball, so there are exceptions to every rule. 

Offline mitlen

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Re: Hall of Fame Class of 2013
« Reply #23: January 09, 2013, 01:12:28 PM »
Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker bet on baseball, so there are exceptions to every rule. 

Can't we retro-enshrine 'em?

Offline blue911

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Re: Hall of Fame Class of 2013
« Reply #24: January 09, 2013, 01:24:14 PM »
Can't we retro-enshrine 'em?

Leave them in. Hell baseball loves cheaters crooks racists and all sorts of scallywags