Author Topic: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays  (Read 10568 times)

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Offline Ray D

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #225: November 16, 2012, 01:51:03 PM »
you see a team (which incidentally doesn't give no trade clauses)

I agree, they're going nowhere if they don't abandon that policy.

Offline comish4lif

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #226: November 16, 2012, 11:13:31 PM »
I'm trying to see it from their perspective (as Bowden tried to do). Not that I have any insight into their thinking, but it is reasonable to conjecture that they said, we won 64 games with this roster, so there is no reason to assume we would win more than 64 games next season with the same roster.  (And of course, the other side of that argument is, without Ozzie, but with a real manager, they might have won 95.)

It would not be fair to the fans to stand pat if it meant another 64 win season.  If by trading those guy it meant (1) with the new makeup including the prospects, it could mean 80 wins in 2012; and (2) by spending the money recovered by the salary dump on more prospects and on new and younger free agents, it could pave the way to build a winner for many years. That, rather than letting those guys age in a couple of year and leave the team not only without decent players but also without funds.

It all depends on how they spend the recovered money.  If they pocket it, then they will have perpetrated a crime on baseball.  If they spend it to improve the team, that's a different story.

That's a reasonable position to have, but I think to accept the premise, you have to ignore a lot of things. A few years back, after trading Uggla to Atlanta rather than go to arbitration, the Union complained. The Marlins signed Josh Johnson to a deal to assuage the Union. Fast forward a few years, the Marlins finally get their new park and go on a spending spree to prove to fans that they will be fielding a winner, that the days of the penurious Marlins are gone. Great, during the season, they traded Anibal Sanchez, Infante and Hanley and Heath Bell after the season.

Then this last trade, To unload last year's crop of free agents and Johnson, it makes you think that the Marlins have no plan. Loria spent a bunch of money and got nothing to show for it, so, like an impetuous child, he throws it all out.

At least during the lean LAC years, the Lerners and Nats stuck by their plan to rebuild from within and would spend when the time was right, which they are now doing.

Offline Coladar

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #227: November 16, 2012, 11:58:52 PM »
I'm not even going to bother finding or reading what Bowden said, because odds are I agree. The moves the Marlins made makes baseball sense, going in another direction offloading a crapload of backended deals worth hundred million plus to go younger.

Problem? Loria. He's a snake. Evil. Signed all these deals last year to con a city. This isn't a baseball move, it's a c***sucker trying to steal more money move. Take away names and teams and I'd say good move. But you can't, Loria is just trying to squeeze every last dime out of a franchise he has murdered.

Offline nobleisthyname

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #228: November 17, 2012, 02:27:27 PM »
Apparently Reyes and Buehrle both had verbal no-trade agreements when they signed with the Marlins. Players are going to hate that team if they didn't already.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #229: November 17, 2012, 02:31:40 PM »
So for everyone saying they would redeploy the money,  good luck getting anyone to go there

Offline mitlen

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #230: November 17, 2012, 02:32:56 PM »
So for everyone saying they would redeploy the money,  good luck getting anyone to go there

Loria lines his pockets by default.   Mission accomplished  ...

Online blue911

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #231: November 17, 2012, 02:43:21 PM »
I want Ozzie to be the Blue Jays new manager

Offline imref

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #232: November 17, 2012, 05:06:43 PM »
Supposedly we've been talking to BJ Upton more than we have before.

Tracy and riggleman are jays finalists for manager per MLB radio

Online blue911

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #233: November 17, 2012, 05:13:31 PM »
Tracy and toggle an are jays finalists for manager per MLB radio

Auto fill for the win

Offline imref

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #234: November 17, 2012, 05:16:05 PM »
Fixed. 

Online blue911

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #235: November 17, 2012, 05:17:30 PM »
Fixed. 

Toggle made me smile. It happens to all of us

Offline Vega

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #236: November 17, 2012, 09:52:43 PM »
Fear not, Fish fans! Juan Pierre is returning! :panic:

Offline Squab

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #237: November 17, 2012, 09:55:18 PM »
Fear not, Fish fans! Juan Pierre is returning! :panic:

Waste of a good player.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #238: November 17, 2012, 10:30:03 PM »
I could just see Toggle trying to make the Blue Jays play small ball and double switching Bautista for a scrub OF'er who is marginally better on defense in the sixth inning.

Offline Smithian

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #239: November 17, 2012, 10:44:20 PM »
I could just see Toggle trying to make the Blue Jays play small ball and double switching Bautista for a scrub OF'er who is marginally better on defense in the sixth inning.
I liked Jim Riggleman and defended him, but he actually once double switched Ryan Zimmerman out of a game.

I wish I could remember which game it was, but I remember thinking he was brain dead after that.

Offline imref

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #240: November 17, 2012, 11:15:41 PM »
I could just see Toggle trying to make the Blue Jays play small ball and double switching Bautista for a scrub OF'er who is marginally better on defense in the sixth inning.

i could see him batting the pitcher to start a game just to mix things up.

Offline Kevrock

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #241: November 18, 2012, 12:36:43 AM »
Apparently Reyes and Buehrle both had verbal no-trade agreements when they signed with the Marlins. Players are going to hate that team if they didn't already.

:lmao: at "verbal no-trade agreements". Fire your agents.

If Toggle doesn't get this job he's gonna have a big night on the town.

Offline Ray D

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #242: November 18, 2012, 08:46:09 AM »

He does have lovely grandaughters.


Offline comish4lif

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #243: November 18, 2012, 03:00:35 PM »
I liked Jim Riggleman and defended him, but he actually once double switched Ryan Zimmerman out of a game.

I wish I could remember which game it was, but I remember thinking he was brain dead after that.

Never thought much of Riggs, looked great compared to inActa.

I do remember scratching my head for about 2 days after he double switched out Morse in a game where Morse had already homered twice.

Offline Vega

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #244: November 18, 2012, 06:31:05 PM »
Toronto reportedly interested in Acta. :lmao:

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #245: November 19, 2012, 11:53:34 AM »
I agree with most of the reactions to the Marlins trade, that having swindled Miami into building them a stadium they are returning to their old ways of cashing in via a combination of league revenue sharing and low payroll.

But on the other hand, this could be a very good move for them. They underperformed with the guys they had, so why not clean house and reload? Their current payroll commitment is $41 million, not just for 2013, in total. They owe $5 million in 2014 and not a dime beyond that, similar to where the Nats were before the Werth signing. While not exactly the same situation as an NBA team with plenty of cap room, this is certainly similar. The Marlins are suddenly in a better position to go on a free agent spree than any other team in the league, which given the choice of the bunch of bums who produced nothing last year vs an unknown assortment of hired guns I'd go with what's behind curtain B.

Offline Ray D

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #246: November 19, 2012, 11:57:06 AM »
The Marlins are suddenly in a better position to go on a free agent spree than any other team in the league,

They better abandon their policy against the no-trade clause, though.


Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #247: November 19, 2012, 12:06:36 PM »
They better abandon their policy against the no-trade clause, though.

I'm not so sure, certainly anyone in their right mind would want a no trade clause as it adds negotiating power to the contract, but players sign these contracts without no trade clauses all the time. In the case of the guys the Marlins traded off, they'll take a major tax hit, but they'll be playing for larger crowds on a team that is gunning for a World Series win, so they didn't make out too bad.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #248: November 19, 2012, 01:17:56 PM »
I'm not so sure, certainly anyone in their right mind would want a no trade clause as it adds negotiating power to the contract, but players sign these contracts without no trade clauses all the time. In the case of the guys the Marlins traded off, they'll take a major tax hit, but they'll be playing for larger crowds on a team that is gunning for a World Series win, so they didn't make out too bad.


most of the huge deals have no trades now, even so, I think you're underestimating the effect of Reyes and Buhrle coming out and saying Loria lied to them. I'm sure they'll be able to sign guys, but I'm willing to bet they'll be a huge 'loria' tax

Offline CALSGR8

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #249: November 19, 2012, 09:23:49 PM »
Who would want to go to Florida?  You can't trust anything they say about your future!  Loria is Mitt Romney when he worked for Bain.  He buys up contracts and then has fire sales ruining the team and the community.  I am totally ticked off that Selig approved this trade even though the fans and their Star player disapproves.

It really is a bait and switch situation.  You make a promise to your community and your fans that a new stadium and a team of great players will change baseball in Florida.  So you got a new stadium, you get Reyes, and Buhrle among others and they look promising.  Add bright new uniforms and a new name and your brand is complete!  Promises kept!  Then he turns around and essentially sells the farm out from under everyone.

When KMart promises a product and they don't have the product promises; they can get in legal trouble.  Why not Loria?