Author Topic: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays  (Read 11630 times)

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Offline wpa2629

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #175: November 14, 2012, 12:17:54 PM »
Serious question - there's no way the city of Miami/Dade County/the suckers that paid for the aquarium in Little Havana are going to let this happen without causing a fuss, right?  I mean, this is a total slap in the face to anyone that bought into Loria and the Marlins doing anything other than squeezing MLB for every dime they can.

I have little sympathy for the city of Miami. They've got no one to blame but themselves. It's not like this is out of character for Loria. This is how he rolls. The city should have NEVER agreed to build a publicly funded stadium based on the word of that snake oil salesman. He has shown time and time again that he cares only about his own interests and nothing else.

It's like moving an arsonist into your basement and then being shocked when he burns down your house. Sorry that dog don't hunt.

Nothing Loria does should surprise anyone, least of all the city of Miami

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #176: November 14, 2012, 12:21:35 PM »
Between this and the fight over PSLs in Minnesota you have to wonder if the days of publicly funded stadiums are ending

Offline tomterp

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #177: November 14, 2012, 12:23:18 PM »
How can you even make that comparison?  We're building a winning club here, we're paying our players, we're signing big name free agents or trading for top-flight guys and then extending them.  We're granting no-trade clauses.  This is the equivalent of traded Zimmerman, Werth, J-Z and Gio for a bunch of prospects.

Let's keep the LAC garbage out of this thread, we've got enough of it on other threads.

Your sarcasm detector needs a major tune-up.

Offline Boss Dealwiler

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #178: November 14, 2012, 01:31:33 PM »
Your sarcasm detector needs a major tune-up.

:clap:

Offline comish4lif

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #179: November 14, 2012, 01:33:33 PM »
Why are the Blue Jays suddenly in a position to take on such huge obligations?  They're not much of a draw.  How soon will they be dumping these players?


When they went on their World Series run in the early 1990's, didn't they draw 4 million fans?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/TOR/attend.shtml

Yes, 3 times in 1991, 1992 and 1993.

Offline Ray D

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #180: November 14, 2012, 01:40:29 PM »
When they went on their World Series run in the early 1990's, didn't they draw 4 million fans?


Yes. But my point is, if the business plan is infinite expenditures but even greater revenue, that's a fine plan if it work, and if they think it's going to work, why did they abandon that plan for 20 years?

Offline Kevrock

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #181: November 14, 2012, 02:38:00 PM »
AA > All other GMs

I'm a fan of his draft strategy, but maybe he could win something besides a trade before we post things like this.

Offline Count Walewski

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #182: November 14, 2012, 02:39:56 PM »
I've decided that I am going to defend the Marlins and their ownership on this move.

Suppose you are the Marlins. You are one of the less profitable teams in baseball and your players usually leave once they are FA's, but you are pretty good at IDing and developing prospects, and you just spent a lot of money on FA's. But the chemistry or whatever just didn't work out, and you didn't contend with all those FA's on your team.

Do you:
(1) Keep them and their backloaded contracts on the books, hoping that magic will somehow strike the same group differently, and risking those contracts becoming untradeable?
(2) Do something else?

The Marlins did something else. For whatever reason, the current crew wasn't getting it done, so they dumped them (along with players likely to become FA's and leave soon), reloaded with prospects, and cleaned up $80 million in payroll. Now, you have a new core to rebuild around, and the option to sign FA help around that core once you see a window opening up.

The Marlins, in my view, are one of the most shrewdly managed teams in baseball. It doesn't always work out, but they're highly Vulcan-like. Dismantling the 1997 and 2003 WS teams was shrewd: most teams don't repeat the same performance the next season and players are at their peak after a WS win. Compare the 1997 Marlins to, say, the 2002 Angels, who kept everyone and became a mediocre team.


Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #183: November 14, 2012, 02:44:42 PM »
Who comprises the 'new core'?

Offline Count Walewski

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #184: November 14, 2012, 02:51:33 PM »
Who comprises the 'new core'?

Presumably they received prospects in their many trades over the last year? I know nothing about the minor leagues, but presumably some of those players, in addition to players already in the farm system, will end up being decent. If they're decent enough, the Marlins could contend and would have a lot of room left to make additions via FA or trade.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #185: November 14, 2012, 02:54:02 PM »
Good luck with free agency after shipping last year's crop to Toronto,  as far as this trade,  they didn't even get the Jay's top prospect

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #186: November 14, 2012, 02:59:09 PM »
It's looking to me like this was by design - they signed a bunch of guys to heavily backloaded contracts, raked in profits from their taxpayer-funded stadium, then traded them away before the salaries ballooned in the later years.  They may have wanted to get another year or two out of Reyes and Buerhle but decided to sell now after seeing how poorly the team drew once they were out of contention.

Maybe all the prospects they got will amount to something, but I can't see them signing any decent free agents for several years at least.  Not when they know they can be shipped to Cleveland or Milwaukee at a moment's notice.

Offline Ray D

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #187: November 14, 2012, 03:00:00 PM »
Dismantling the 1997 and 2003 WS teams was shrewd:
Perhaps 1997, given that they were able to reload and win again six years later.  Not 2003 though, they've been mediocre for nine seasons. And nothing shrewd about this dismantling - the reason it didn't work is simple: Ozzie.  A disaster. Any competent manager would have made it work.  They (presumably) have a competent manager now, they should have given it another year.

Offline Ray D

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #188: November 14, 2012, 03:01:37 PM »

I can't see them signing any decent free agents for several years at least.  Not when they know they can be shipped to Cleveland or Milwaukee at a moment's notice.
At minimum, they're going to have to give up their no no-trade clause policy.


Online houston-nat

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #189: November 14, 2012, 03:02:54 PM »

Online PebbleBall

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #190: November 14, 2012, 03:14:42 PM »
I've decided that I am going to defend the Marlins and their ownership on this move.

Suppose you are the Marlins. You are one of the less profitable teams in baseball and your players usually leave once they are FA's, but you are pretty good at IDing and developing prospects, and you just spent a lot of money on FA's. But the chemistry or whatever just didn't work out, and you didn't contend with all those FA's on your team.

Do you:
(1) Keep them and their backloaded contracts on the books, hoping that magic will somehow strike the same group differently, and risking those contracts becoming untradeable?
(2) Do something else?

The Marlins did something else. For whatever reason, the current crew wasn't getting it done, so they dumped them (along with players likely to become FA's and leave soon), reloaded with prospects, and cleaned up $80 million in payroll. Now, you have a new core to rebuild around, and the option to sign FA help around that core once you see a window opening up.

The Marlins, in my view, are one of the most shrewdly managed teams in baseball. It doesn't always work out, but they're highly Vulcan-like. Dismantling the 1997 and 2003 WS teams was shrewd: most teams don't repeat the same performance the next season and players are at their peak after a WS win. Compare the 1997 Marlins to, say, the 2002 Angels, who kept everyone and became a mediocre team.


No, there's no justifying this.

  • According to Forbes (3/2012), the Marlins were more profitable than the Giants, Tigers, Mariners, Dodgers, Angels, Phillies, and Mets for the previous season, in a football stadium, and have not posted a loss since 2006. 
  • They didn't spend a lot of money on free agents, they signed free agents to contracts somebody else will pay
  • There is no chemistry argument when the sell-off begins after a half-season
  • They have a year-old, half-billion dollar stadium, and currently <$20 million in 2013 payroll
  • The Marlins ownership was completely different in 1997 and had barely had owned the team a year in 2003
  • They've never won the division and haven't been to the postseason since 2003, while the Angels went to the postseason 5 of the next 7 years after 2002.  So the Marlins compare quite poorly to them.
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Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #191: November 14, 2012, 06:43:09 PM »
Perhaps 1997, given that they were able to reload and win again six years later.  Not 2003 though, they've been mediocre for nine seasons. And nothing shrewd about this dismantling - the reason it didn't work is simple: Ozzie.  A disaster. Any competent manager would have made it work.  They (presumably) have a competent manager now, they should have given it another year.


They didn't dismantle the 2003 team till 2006.

Quite often a misnomer.

Offline wpa2629

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #192: November 14, 2012, 06:57:39 PM »
OMG - LOL !


Giancarlo Stanton ‏@Giancarlo818
@Bharper3407 Dang bro, If only my last name backwards wasn't NotNats!

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #193: November 14, 2012, 07:14:02 PM »
OMG - LOL !


Giancarlo Stanton ‏@Giancarlo818
@Bharper3407 Dang bro, If only my last name backwards wasn't NotNats!

he's deflected the question at hand with a joke!  He secretly has already asked the FO for a trade to us!

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #194: November 14, 2012, 07:20:55 PM »
Quote
keithlaw‏@keithlaw

 Only speaks $ "@Jcn92: Samson just referred to Henderson Alvarez as Anderson Alvarez. Doesn't even know the name of the guy he traded for."

Samson should just stop existing.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #195: November 14, 2012, 08:06:03 PM »
I used to get Anderson Hernandez and Alberto Gonzalez mixed up.  But I'm not the Nats GM or whatever role Samson has with the Marlins.

Trade for Stanton.

Online Vega

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #196: November 14, 2012, 10:34:50 PM »
Look at what Ricky Nolasco told a reporter in Miami:

Quote
    Reached out to Ricky Nolasco to get his thoughts on the pending trade between the Marlins and Blue Jays that will send Josh Johnson, Mark Buehrle, Jose Reyes, John Buck and Emilio Bonifacio north. Via text, he politely declined. Couldn’t blame him.

    “I’m next anyways,” Nolasco said.

:lmao:

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #197: November 14, 2012, 10:35:47 PM »
hilarious :lmao:

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #198: November 14, 2012, 10:44:17 PM »
Wasn't our 3 headed combo of second base stink referred to as Bonihernalez at one point?

I wonder if Bryce's tweets constitute tampering?

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Marlins trade franchise to Blue Jays
« Reply #199: November 15, 2012, 12:13:05 AM »
Look at what Ricky Nolasco told a reporter in Miami:

:lmao:

Oh, what's the source on that?  I want to re-post that somewhere.  Friggin' gold.