Poll

Who?

Zack Greinke
9 (22%)
Josh Hamilton
1 (2.4%)
Michael Bourn
9 (22%)
BJ Upton
1 (2.4%)
Dan Haren
2 (4.9%)
Adam LaRoche
12 (29.3%)
Other
7 (17.1%)

Total Members Voted: 41

Author Topic: Who Will be our Big Topic this Off-Season?  (Read 1192 times)

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Offline Ray D

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Re: Who Will be our Big Topic this Off-Season?
« Reply #25: November 07, 2012, 02:59:33 PM »
since when do most managers matter for player acquisitions, so long as no one expects Ozzy or Valentine to be here next year, I cant see free agents caring

I would think the Nationals would be far more attractive to a player if he knows he'll be playing for "The Best Damn Manager in Baseball" and one who is known to be a players manager, versus not having any idea who the manager will be.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: Who Will be our Big Topic this Off-Season?
« Reply #26: November 07, 2012, 04:00:59 PM »
I would think the Nationals would be far more attractive to a player if he knows he'll be playing for "The Best Damn Manager in Baseball" and one who is known to be a players manager, versus not having any idea who the manager will be.

Money being the clear #1 deciding factor on where a guy signs, I'd think that the manager would be one of the leading candidates for #2.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Who Will be our Big Topic this Off-Season?
« Reply #27: November 07, 2012, 04:07:06 PM »
Money being the clear #1 deciding factor on where a guy signs, I'd think that the manager would be one of the leading candidates for #2.

I'd think money would be number 1, change to win, club house atmosphere, location, quality of facilities, organization's treatment of players, manager (with lack of terrible manager being more important),... and a crap load of other things could all get thrown in and depending on the come out in different orders

Offline Ray D

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Re: Who Will be our Big Topic this Off-Season?
« Reply #28: November 07, 2012, 04:09:55 PM »
I'd think money would be number 1, change to win, club house atmosphere, location, quality of facilities, organization's treatment of players, manager (with lack of terrible manager being more important),... and a crap load of other things could all get thrown in and depending on the come out in different orders

But chance to win, atmosphere, player treatment are all heavily influenced by the manager.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Who Will be our Big Topic this Off-Season?
« Reply #29: November 07, 2012, 04:15:45 PM »
But chance to win ... are all heavily influenced by the manager


Most of what I've read suggests otherwise with a manager maybe being worth a win or two per season

Offline lastobjective

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Re: Who Will be our Big Topic this Off-Season?
« Reply #30: November 07, 2012, 04:20:47 PM »

Most of what I've read suggests otherwise with a manager maybe being worth a win or two per season

Does that account for personality? I'd imagine a very abrasive manager or any other manager that just put players off would make the team less productive. But maybe I'm putting too much belief in the power of friendship and love.

Offline RL04

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Re: Who Will be our Big Topic this Off-Season?
« Reply #31: November 07, 2012, 04:20:51 PM »
The Fielder and Tex non signings (farces) were based on leaks from various sources that the Nats were looking to sign those guys when in reality we were only interested in getting credit for being the second highest bidder.


Reports say that we actually matched (or exceeded) the Yank's Tex figure and therefore we were not trying to just get credit for being the second highest bidder.

And that Tex chose to go to NY instead of DC ... for somewhat obvious reasons at the time.


Offline Ray D

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Re: Who Will be our Big Topic this Off-Season?
« Reply #32: November 07, 2012, 04:23:24 PM »

Most of what I've read suggests otherwise with a manager maybe being worth a win or two per season

So we would have won 96 with Riggleman?

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Who Will be our Big Topic this Off-Season?
« Reply #33: November 07, 2012, 04:32:46 PM »
So we would have won 96 with Riggleman?

with the same health from our starters and the same rosters, I'd think anywhere from 94-98

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: Who Will be our Big Topic this Off-Season?
« Reply #34: November 07, 2012, 05:24:32 PM »

Reports say that we actually matched (or exceeded) the Yank's Tex figure and therefore we were not trying to just get credit for being the second highest bidder.

And that Tex chose to go to NY instead of DC ... for somewhat obvious reasons at the time.



Tex was never going to come here so any bid was just a sham, Mark Lerner used their phony bid as an example of their willingness to spend at the same time as they were intentionally tanking in order to draft Stras and Harper. It was a mutually beneficial Boras and Lerner construct.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: Who Will be our Big Topic this Off-Season?
« Reply #35: November 07, 2012, 05:30:50 PM »
with the same health from our starters and the same rosters, I'd think anywhere from 94-98

No chance, despite having a winning record Riggles was losing the Clubhouse, guys like Werth and Marquis were openly undermining him. A good manager can squeeze out a couple extra wins, a manager who has lost the players respect can lead to a collapse.

As far as all of the various factors for choosing a team, I'd agree with Ray that the manager sets the tone that determines whether players want to come to town. Although a chance for a ring is certainly a major factor.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Who Will be our Big Topic this Off-Season?
« Reply #36: November 07, 2012, 05:37:59 PM »
As far as all of the various factors for choosing a team, I'd agree with Ray that the manager sets the tone that determines whether players want to come to town. Although a chance for a ring is certainly a major factor.

the marlins netted a huge crop of desirable free agents with a train wreck of a manager- money was the deciding factor. I've heard of players chasing rings, preferring a coast or a home town, going for cash, but I've yet to hear a guy say "I was offered more elsewhere, but I really wanted to play for Joe Madden" maybe for fringe guys with multiple minor league invites, but never from a marquee free agent

Offline Ray D

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Re: Who Will be our Big Topic this Off-Season?
« Reply #37: November 07, 2012, 05:43:10 PM »
the marlins netted a huge crop of desirable free agents with a train wreck of a manager-


He was not viewed as a train wreck until he became a train wreck, which was after those guys signed.  A year ago he was viewed as a World Series winning manager.


Offline Ray D

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Re: Who Will be our Big Topic this Off-Season?
« Reply #38: November 07, 2012, 05:44:23 PM »
An furthermore doesn't that support the suggestion that the manager matters.   How many games would the Marlins have won with a decent manager.   Possibly 20 more games?

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Who Will be our Big Topic this Off-Season?
« Reply #39: November 07, 2012, 05:49:32 PM »
He was not viewed as a train wreck until he became a train wreck, which was after those guys signed.  A year ago he was viewed as a World Series winning manager.



pretty sure he was viewed as a train wreck when he left Chicago

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: Who Will be our Big Topic this Off-Season?
« Reply #40: November 07, 2012, 07:23:28 PM »
with the same health from our starters and the same rosters, I'd think anywhere from 94-98

No chance at all Riggs would have been able to convince Werth to hit leadoff, help Desmond learn how to hit, lean on young players like Moore and Lombo, and generally not double switch his way to a much, much worse season. 

Offline aspenbubba

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Re: Who Will be our Big Topic this Off-Season?
« Reply #41: November 07, 2012, 07:33:52 PM »
No chance at all Riggs would have been able to convince Werth to hit leadoff, help Desmond learn how to hit, lean on young players like Moore and Lombo, and generally not double switch his way to a much, much worse season. 

I think Riggs had Werth batting lead-off at one point. Perhaps before he bolted.

Didn't Casey Stengal say a good manager was possibly worth 10 more wins.

Offline wpa2629

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Re: Who Will be our Big Topic this Off-Season?
« Reply #42: November 07, 2012, 07:35:49 PM »
Adam Kilgore ‏@AdamKilgoreWP

Mike Rizzo says of Davey Johnson, "I expect him to be the manager." He said he was not surprised or concerned it's taken this long.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Who Will be our Big Topic this Off-Season?
« Reply #43: November 07, 2012, 07:37:20 PM »
Bourn. There will be some intense rumors. We'll be linked in many ways. And so many people are one extreme or the other with him.

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: Who Will be our Big Topic this Off-Season?
« Reply #44: November 07, 2012, 08:38:21 PM »
I can't wait until sabermatricians come up with a way to calculate manager WAR.  I gaurantee it will happen someday.

Offline nobleisthyname

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Re: Who Will be our Big Topic this Off-Season?
« Reply #45: November 07, 2012, 08:43:28 PM »
Yeah, I'm changing my vote to Bourn (previously LaRoche). It seems all of the rest of baseball have us as his most likely destination so they'll constantly be linking us. Personally I really don't want him.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: Who Will be our Big Topic this Off-Season?
« Reply #46: November 08, 2012, 07:11:36 AM »
Day 27, both sides are saying that a deal is imminent, which is good, but doesn't explain why it has taken this long. As long as Davey is signed in the next week there's probably no impact from the delay, only if the count closes in on day 40 is it panic time.

Offline RL04

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Re: Who Will be our Big Topic this Off-Season?
« Reply #47: November 08, 2012, 02:01:27 PM »
Mark Lerner used their phony bid as an example of their willingness to spend at the same time as they were intentionally tanking in order to draft Stras and Harper.

We're getting off-topic here, but you seriously believe the team was intentionally tanking in order to draft St. Stephen and the messiah!?

Wasn't it Seattle who won their last few games, otherwise they would have gotten Strasburg?

No matter how badly a teams plays, there's always a chance another team is going to be worse and get the No. 1 pick.

Quote
Tex was never going to come here so any bid was just a sham

Ya never know what can happen.  Don't ask someone to marry you if you're not serious.   They just might say "yes."   ;)

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: Who Will be our Big Topic this Off-Season?
« Reply #48: November 08, 2012, 03:49:21 PM »
We're getting off-topic here, but you seriously believe the team was intentionally tanking in order to draft St. Stephen and the messiah!?

Wasn't it Seattle who won their last few games, otherwise they would have gotten Strasburg?

No matter how badly a teams plays, there's always a chance another team is going to be worse and get the No. 1 pick.

Ya never know what can happen.  Don't ask someone to marry you if you're not serious.   They just might say "yes."   ;)

It's not my belief, it's a fact, I can dig up the quotes, the FO has admitted that the Plan was to build the team via high draft picks.

There was never a chance that Tex was coming here, he was looking for a team that could contend immediately, old man Lerner and Boras had the whole scam all worked out.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: Who Will be our Big Topic this Off-Season?
« Reply #49: November 08, 2012, 05:54:30 PM »
I think it's the front office that was trying to lose - not the actual players.  The front office tried putting a less talented team out there to try to get high draft picks.  If the players outperformed expectations, that doesn't really negate that the front office was still trying to lose. 

I would submit that the 2008 Nats were a lot less talented than the 2008 Mariners -

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/WSN/2008.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SEA/2008.shtml