Author Topic: Is RZ "Injury Prone"  (Read 1256 times)

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Offline imref

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Is RZ "Injury Prone"
« Topic Start: October 26, 2012, 12:42:28 PM »
No, according to the stats.

Zuck:

Quote
Since he became a full-time major leaguer at the start of the 2006 season, Zimmerman has played in more games (970) than all but two fellow third basemen: David Wright (1,033) and Adrian Beltre (993).

Of course, plenty of other third basemen in the game today haven't been around as long as Zimmerman, Wright and Beltre. So a more apt exercise would be to compare the average number of games played per season among third basemen.

In that regard, Zimmerman still stacks up well. Among active third basemen who have held down regular jobs for at least three years, Wright leads the way with an average of 149 games per season in his career. Chase Headley (148), Beltre (146), Mark Reynolds (142) and Alberto Callaspo (142) rank second through fifth.

Next up on the list: Zimmerman, whose average of 139 games played during his career is equal to Aramis Ramirez and Alex Rodriguez.

Third basemen who have averaged fewer games per season than Zimmerman: Chipper Jones (138), Pablo Sandoval (132), Chone Figgins (129), Evan Longoria (127), Scott Rolen (125) and Placido Polanco (115).


http://www.natsinsider.com/2012/10/is-zimmerman-injury-prone.html#more

Offline NJ Ave

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Re: Is RZ "Injury Prone"
« Reply #1: October 26, 2012, 12:55:50 PM »
I was surprised a few weeks back when I looked at his games played. However, and this may be mindfacting, I feel like he "plays through pain" more than other guys, so his games played totals are padded with stretches when he's playing pretty badly due to nagging injuries. I mean, this year he played 145 games, which I consider to be more or less a full season. But did it really help the team that he played 40 games prior to getting that cortisone shot and OPSed under .600 for a quarter of a season?

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Is RZ "Injury Prone"
« Reply #2: October 26, 2012, 12:56:38 PM »
I think this kind of says that third base is potentially an injury prone position.  Lots of funky hops, quick movements, dives, and awkward angles make the position hard to play, and when guys aren't on greenies, they break down more often.

Offline The Chief

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Re: Is RZ "Injury Prone"
« Reply #3: October 26, 2012, 01:01:28 PM »
I'm not sure I see the relevance of his earlier seasons in a response to this question.  It's only in more recent years that his durability has become a concern, and I don't imagine the fact that he played a full season in 2007 will diminish those concerns going forward.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Is RZ "Injury Prone"
« Reply #4: October 26, 2012, 01:02:35 PM »
I would consider ARod and Aramis Ramirez injury prone, so being equal to them might not be a good thing

Offline NJ Ave

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Re: Is RZ "Injury Prone"
« Reply #5: October 26, 2012, 01:04:19 PM »
Last year he came back from the abdominal strain and OPSed under .600 for the first 21 games before breaking out. In 2008 he played about 40 games after tearing his labrum (and then after coming off the DL) where he basically hit without any power until he heated up in August.

So I don't know. I'd say his "games played at well under 100 percent" should be considered along with his games missed.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Is RZ "Injury Prone"
« Reply #6: October 26, 2012, 01:13:46 PM »
Since Zimmerman's injury in 2008, Reynolds, Beltre, Wright, Headley, Ramirez, and Callapso have all played more games than Ryan Zimmerman.

Offline Kevrock

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Re: Is RZ "Injury Prone"
« Reply #7: October 26, 2012, 01:27:31 PM »
Trade him for Callapso.

Offline NationalHeat

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Re: Is RZ "Injury Prone"
« Reply #8: October 26, 2012, 01:33:23 PM »
He is certainly injury prone, it just hasn't caught up to him/us (yet.)

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Is RZ "Injury Prone"
« Reply #9: October 26, 2012, 01:44:23 PM »
Even with all the injury concerns, I stick by my idea that most third baseman are injury prone.  Still aside from Beltre and Wright, he is probably the best hitting 3rd baseman out there.  Throwing issues aside, he gets to the same amount of balls as Longoria and Beltre.  He is a force in the offense.  Maybe MLB should do a study based upon the breakdowns of players at certain positions?

Offline Slateman

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Re: Is RZ "Injury Prone"
« Reply #10: October 26, 2012, 02:00:42 PM »
Even with all the injury concerns, I stick by my idea that most third baseman are injury prone.  Still aside from Beltre and Wright, he is probably the best hitting 3rd baseman out there.  Throwing issues aside, he gets to the same amount of balls as Longoria and Beltre.  He is a force in the offense.  Maybe MLB should do a study based upon the breakdowns of players at certain positions?

Cal didn't seem to have any issues . . . :lol:

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: Is RZ "Injury Prone"
« Reply #11: October 26, 2012, 02:16:17 PM »
Sign Cal and move RZ to first.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Is RZ "Injury Prone"
« Reply #12: October 26, 2012, 02:20:38 PM »
Sign Cal and move RZ to first.

The ultimate slap in the face to Angelos

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Is RZ "Injury Prone"
« Reply #13: October 26, 2012, 03:01:34 PM »
Actually, Cal said that he got much more beat up at 3d than he did at SS.  Lot's of diving and bouncing up, instead of taking several steps and bending.

Offline WhiteWhale

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Re: Is RZ "Injury Prone"
« Reply #14: October 26, 2012, 03:07:35 PM »
NJ brings up a question of Quanity and Quality and Cheif raised the issue of recency.

I'd say quality matches quanity according to the graphs, which makes sense and says if he is playing through pain, he is doing relatively well with it.

As to recency, it gets more complex. Best fine lines for games in a season is trending down, but not that harshly. Now if you remove 2007 which Chief took exception to having an effect on the states, the best fin line actually levels out and is less descending. It decends more agressively if you start from 2009, but is quite level if you start with 2010. Looks like small data pool as 1 year is one point. I'm sure there is a better way to do this, and I am not a math/graph guy but it looks like this is more emotional for us - Face of Franchise 3 hole hitter and all.

EDIT AND NOD TO CHIEF: The best fit lines get less agressive after 2007, but also have a lower totals, so yes, he could be a guy that fights through and has to take breaks, but I would not say he is injury prone.

The bigger question for me, watching him play, is which one of these will send him to 1B where he doesn't profile

Offline The Chief

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Re: Is RZ "Injury Prone"
« Reply #15: October 26, 2012, 03:41:19 PM »
My objection wasn't to 2007 specifically so much as it is to Zuckerman's use of RZ's early years to prop up the idea that he's not an injury risk going forward.

Offline WhiteWhale

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Re: Is RZ "Injury Prone"
« Reply #16: October 26, 2012, 03:51:56 PM »
My objection wasn't to 2007 specifically so much as it is to Zuckerman's use of RZ's early years to prop up the idea that he's not an injury risk going forward.

I gotcha, I understood, you used the example of 2007's 162 games not meaning anything now, and I agree.

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Is RZ "Injury Prone"
« Reply #17: October 26, 2012, 04:01:29 PM »
I think he's injury prone, but he also seems to have "lesser" injuries that only keep him out for about 1/3 season at most.  That's *mostly* a good thing - he does tend to struggle immediately upon returning, but he usually irons out adjustment issues and gives the team a lot of production when he's finally at 100%.

Offline The Chief

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Re: Is RZ "Injury Prone"
« Reply #18: October 26, 2012, 04:22:27 PM »
I think he's injury prone, but he also seems to have "lesser" injuries that only keep him out for about 1/3 season at most.  That's *mostly* a good thing - he does tend to struggle immediately upon returning, but he usually irons out adjustment issues and gives the team a lot of production when he's finally at 100%.

This too. I would happily take 140 games/year out of RZ for the remainder of his contract.

Offline Baseball is Life

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Re: Is RZ "Injury Prone"
« Reply #19: October 26, 2012, 05:55:06 PM »
He's not injury prone. He's a tough s.o.b who plays with pain. :roll:

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Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: Is RZ "Injury Prone"
« Reply #20: October 31, 2012, 07:30:30 PM »
didn't know where to post this so I just posted it in the first Zimmerman thread I saw.  Apparently Zimmerman swung at the lowest percentage of pitches out of the zone at just 30.9%

Offline lastobjective

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Re: Is RZ "Injury Prone"
« Reply #21: October 31, 2012, 07:42:09 PM »
didn't know where to post this so I just posted it in the first Zimmerman thread I saw.  Apparently Zimmerman swung at the lowest percentage of pitches out of the zone at just 30.9%

Where was Werth?

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: Is RZ "Injury Prone"
« Reply #22: October 31, 2012, 08:07:34 PM »
Where was Werth?

i just saw a list of the top ten on fangraphs and werth wasn't in it.

EDIT:  Werth swung at 25.7% of pitches outside the strike zone last year.  That would be good enough for first on the list but he didn't have enough ABs to qualify.

Offline lastobjective

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Re: Is RZ "Injury Prone"
« Reply #23: October 31, 2012, 08:10:44 PM »
i just saw a list of the top ten on fangraphs and werth wasn't in it.

Interesting, thanks - thought he'd be on it but it was a mindfact not a real one.

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: Is RZ "Injury Prone"
« Reply #24: October 31, 2012, 08:13:08 PM »
Interesting, thanks - thought he'd be on it but it was a mindfact not a real one.

see my edit