Poll

What Should Happen With Espinosa?

Starts at 2B
48 (35.6%)
Replaced/Becomes Utility Player
31 (23%)
Ditched Completely
11 (8.1%)
Trade to Team Looking for MI
34 (25.2%)
DL, surgery or rest, then a month rehab in Syracuse
11 (8.1%)

Total Members Voted: 133

Author Topic: The Espinosa Question: What should happen with him?  (Read 17429 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline cmdterps44

  • Posts: 15536
  • Future
Another poll topic from yours truly.

What Should Happen With Espinosa? I'm not sure what we should do exactly but I think I'm going to say "start him". Why? Well last year I was ready to send Desmond down the river. It was his sophomore year and he had done worse than he did in his rookie year. I didn't think he'd perform well at all... Welp, we all saw what he did this year in his junior year. He mashed and shut a lot of us up.

I think Espinosa should get some of the same treatment. He had worse numbers than he had his rookie year (WAR was .3 higher this year but that may be because his UZR in defense was 9 points higher?) power numbers wise (where his potential is). 4 homers less in the same amount of PA's... struckout 23 more times... stole 3 more bases and did have 8 more doubles with .011 points higher in AVG but still a lower OBP and RBI rate.

Since Desmond may have reached his potential, I think Espinosa could somehow breakout... And I want to give him that chance too since his potential bat could be VERY dangerous in our lineup. I'm going to say start him and give him a limit on AB's to hopefully prove us he can play... and this is all assuming he does decent enough to make the team this ST.

edited... thanks blue.

Offline GMUNat

  • Posts: 5232
Re: The Espinosa Question
« Reply #1: October 24, 2012, 09:02:13 AM »
Keep him. This question is an easy indicator on who should I listen to on this board and who is too dumb to have their opinions posted here.

Offline zimm_da_kid

  • Posts: 6327
  • #HARPGOD
Re: The Espinosa Question
« Reply #2: October 24, 2012, 09:08:29 AM »
Lombo til june, then give me rendon

Offline blue911

  • Posts: 17497
Re: The Espinosa Question
« Reply #3: October 24, 2012, 09:08:45 AM »
We?

Offline cmdterps44

  • Posts: 15536
  • Future
Re: The Espinosa Question
« Reply #4: October 24, 2012, 09:18:45 AM »

Offline welch

  • Posts: 9669
Re: The Espinosa Question
« Reply #5: October 24, 2012, 09:18:47 AM »
Give him til all-star break to prove he has learned to hit. If he's still striking at at league-leading rate, then replace him with Lombo. If he is still swinging for home runs, and striking out, then he won't ever learn. Good fielder, great backup SS / 2B

Offline blue911

  • Posts: 17497
Re: The Espinosa Question
« Reply #6: October 24, 2012, 09:21:56 AM »

Offline Baseball is Life

  • Posts: 13115
  • Proud member of the Sunshine Squad.
Re: The Espinosa Question
« Reply #7: October 24, 2012, 09:26:57 AM »
Give him until the ASB. Then it's on to Lombo or Rendon.

But no doubt in mind he will respond. The kid has the tools. He just needs to adjust. We just went through this with Desi.

Offline blue911

  • Posts: 17497
Re: The Espinosa Question
« Reply #8: October 24, 2012, 09:33:57 AM »
You play him.

Offline Slateman

  • Posts: 28766
  • FREE TURNER
Re: The Espinosa Question
« Reply #9: October 24, 2012, 09:35:05 AM »
He starts but it's completely dependant on Rendon. If Rendon's bat is as good as advertised, he will take over second base.

I'm also hoping that Espinosa will over come his sophmore slump and improve like Desmond did. I doubt it, but I can hope.

Offline NationalHeat

  • Posts: 502
Re: The Espinosa Question
« Reply #10: October 24, 2012, 09:54:32 AM »
Of course he starts. Gold glove defense and a power/speed combo with a great WAR to boot? It is a no brainer. Lombo may hit for a higher average, but its an empty .280, which is useless down the batting order.

But, I will admit I am  :az: over Espinosa. I love getting power from non-power positions.

I still think the long term plan is Rendon at 3B and Ryan at first.

Offline Count Walewski

  • Posts: 1189
Re: The Espinosa Question
« Reply #11: October 24, 2012, 10:10:44 AM »
Give him another year. I love Lombardozzi, but I don't think he'll outhit Espinosa over an entire season.

Offline DPMOmaha

  • Posts: 18829
Re: The Espinosa Question
« Reply #12: October 24, 2012, 10:16:42 AM »
He's the best second baseman on the team and I don't really think it's all that close.  He'll get the job and he should be given every opportunity that Desmond got to make the jump from year two to year three.  He's more than got the talent to do it.  For one, I'm looking forward to seeing him take the opportunity and running with it.

Offline NationalHeat

  • Posts: 502
Re: The Espinosa Question
« Reply #13: October 24, 2012, 11:02:30 AM »
Honestly if he does what he is doing right now, and shows some marginal improvement along the way he should always have that job.

In unrelated news, he is a BEAST in my OOTP league: he had a .867 OPS for me with 26 HR, 96 RBI, 25/28 SB and a gold glove, AS appearance and 6th in MVP  :D

Offline Smithian

  • Posts: 6061
  • Team America 2015
Re: The Espinosa Question
« Reply #14: October 24, 2012, 11:04:43 AM »
Demond's breakout year bought Espinosa some patience going into next season.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 19705
  • Platoon - not just a movie, a baseball obsession
Re: The Espinosa Question
« Reply #15: October 24, 2012, 11:08:59 AM »
CMD - to make this more interesting, you ought to add "trade to a team looking for an MI starter." 

I view myself as bullish on Espinosa, almost as much as anyone on the board. I think he could / should be a terrific shortstop, which I think is a higher value position than 2d in terms of defense (we can argue this). As an SS, his offensive problems would be more tolerable even if he does not bust out.  He's not going to be a shortstop on this team, and given the internal options for 2d on the roster and in the minors, I think we could improve the team by letting an inferior Lombardozzi start for a while and getting some value back for Espinosa, either in a package deal for a SP or OF. 

Offline cmdterps44

  • Posts: 15536
  • Future
Re: The Espinosa Question
« Reply #16: October 24, 2012, 11:12:59 AM »
Added the option.

Offline MorseTheHorse

  • Posts: 2345
Re: The Espinosa Question
« Reply #17: October 24, 2012, 11:47:49 AM »
3.5 WAR in 2011, 3.8 WAR in 2012.  You don't bench that kind of production. 

Also Desmond went from 1.3 and 1.4 WAR in '10 and '11 to 5.4 WAR in '12.  It would be absurd to think Danny will have a jump even half as big, but it's pretty common for guys to come up do well for a bit, have the league adjust, they struggle, and then if they can adjust back they go on to long and succesful careers.  I mean I think we saw Bryce go through that whole process this year.  With other guys its sometimes a multi-year thing, and if Espinosa still have some adjusting back to go, we are looking at a really quality player at 2B. 

Offline welch

  • Posts: 9669
Re: The Espinosa Question
« Reply #18: October 24, 2012, 11:57:20 AM »
I don't think the team should trade Espi. Having three good middle infielders is vital...look at the Yankees without Jeter.

Having said that, it is on Espi to prove he can get a bat on the ball. His 17 homers is no big deal compare to 190 K's. If Lombo hits a steady .290 -- and he was about .300 when he started in August -- that contributes more than Espi's 3 home-runs a month and rally-killing strike-outs.

Extra thought: Espi seemed to improve his hitting in July / August, then fell off in September. How much of the fall-off came from his sore shoulder? If his healed shoulder helps him hit .280 with more like 120 K's, then he is golden.


Offline hammondsnats

  • Posts: 37363
  • LAC 8)
Re: The Espinosa Question
« Reply #19: October 24, 2012, 12:17:47 PM »
like rizzo's "approach" for all positions ... improve if you possibly can. 

Offline Slateman

  • Posts: 28766
  • FREE TURNER
Re: The Espinosa Question
« Reply #20: October 24, 2012, 12:29:56 PM »
Of course he starts. Gold glove defense and a power/speed combo with a great WAR to boot? It is a no brainer. Lombo may hit for a higher average, but its an empty .280, which is useless down the batting order.

But, I will admit I am  :az: over Espinosa. I love getting power from non-power positions.

I still think the long term plan is Rendon at 3B and Ryan at first.

Filled with mind facts I see

Danny Espinosa has not won a Gold Glove, and I doubt he will this year.

And Lombo's .280, high contact average would look great in the two hole. There's nothing that says the second baseman has to hit 7th. Especially if you move Harper back in the lineup.

Offline Lintyfresh85

  • Posts: 34636
  • Next year, maybe?
Re: The Espinosa Question
« Reply #21: October 24, 2012, 12:47:21 PM »
People should probably realize comparing Espinosa's down year to Desmond's down years reallt isn't fair. Danny is so much better than bad Ian ever was.

He really doesn't have to improve much.

Hell, if he stayed the same he's still a power threat with good speed and gold glove quality defense.

The comparisons to Desmond of the past isn't fair to Danny. Desmond was one of the three worst SS's in the game. Danny's already a first division 2B.

Offline cmdterps44

  • Posts: 15536
  • Future
Re: The Espinosa Question
« Reply #22: October 24, 2012, 12:50:40 PM »
People should probably realize comparing Espinosa's down year to Desmond's down years reallt isn't fair. Danny is so much better than bad Ian ever was.

He really doesn't have to improve much.

Hell, if he stayed the same he's still a power threat with good speed and gold glove quality defense and a starting quality 2B. The comparisons to Desmond of the past isn't fair to Danny. Desmond was one of the three worst SS's in the game. Danny's already a first division 2B.

His defense is there, which is excellent, but his bat still needs work. He's hitting for power but it doesn't happen as often as we want it too. He's striking out way too often. Basically, he needs plate discipline and he could instantly be fantastic.

You are right about the unfair comparison, though, since Desmond was struggling in every aspect.

Offline hammondsnats

  • Posts: 37363
  • LAC 8)
Re: The Espinosa Question
« Reply #23: October 24, 2012, 12:53:40 PM »
if espy is going to lead the NL in strikeouts at least have a pretty damn good OBP ... he didn't.  plus he only had 17 homers.  for a guy that strikes out almost 200 times, that's not good.

Offline NationalHeat

  • Posts: 502
Re: The Espinosa Question
« Reply #24: October 24, 2012, 01:29:24 PM »
Filled with mind facts I see

Danny Espinosa has not won a Gold Glove, and I doubt he will this year.

And Lombo's .280, high contact average would look great in the two hole. There's nothing that says the second baseman has to hit 7th. Especially if you move Harper back in the lineup.

An empty below .700 OPS with lesser defense is simply not an upgrade, even at the 2 hole. He is good for what he does right now and thats it, IMO.