Poll

Who would you rather keep?

Adam LaRoche
68 (60.7%)
Michael Morse
44 (39.3%)

Total Members Voted: 112

Author Topic: Morse or LaRoche  (Read 24334 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Kevrock

  • Posts: 11341
  • Troll So Hard University
Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #350: November 26, 2012, 03:09:16 PM »
From what I remember about his time in the majors, Merrero looked like a freaking slap hitter with zero power. Do not want.

A slap hitter? Cmon. Most of his singles were hard  hit line drives.

Offline Tyler Durden

  • Posts: 7971
  • Leprechaun
Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #351: November 26, 2012, 03:32:35 PM »
What kind of injury did he have?

I don't think Marrero is on the radar at all for a starting job with the Nats.  Maybe he could fill the role of RH bat off the bench, though.

Offline imref

  • Posts: 17585
  • Like my arm slot?
Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #352: November 26, 2012, 04:48:58 PM »
What kind of injury did he have?

I don't think Marrero is on the radar at all for a starting job with the Nats.  Maybe he could fill the role of RH bat off the bench, though.

torn hamstring.


Online Ray D

  • Posts: 4880
Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #353: November 26, 2012, 04:59:20 PM »
torn hamstring.



What do you  need a hamstring for to play first base?

Offline Lintyfresh85

  • Posts: 33832
  • Next year, maybe?
Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #354: November 26, 2012, 06:55:33 PM »
A slap hitter? Cmon. Most of his singles were hard  hit line drives.

Well played.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 18073
  • Platoon - not just a movie, a baseball obsession
Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #355: November 29, 2012, 06:13:48 PM »
Looks like the Span deal means we are content to let ALR walk if he wants more than 3 years (or 2 guaranteed and an option). 

With the Red Sox getting involved in ALR bidding, you wonder if that would be a market for Morse if ALR signs in a 3d city.  Napoli and Swisher probably have to end up somewhere before the market for Morse becomes clear.

Online zimm_da_kid

  • Posts: 6264
  • Sign all the Cubans
Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #356: November 29, 2012, 06:21:14 PM »
Morse+Espi to the rays for a pitcher

Online Ray D

  • Posts: 4880
Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #357: November 29, 2012, 06:23:06 PM »
It means that one or the other is gone. So it now more accurately reflects the thread title; earlier the response was "keep both" and now that's not an option.   But I think it is still a good possibility that we trade Morse and sign LaRoche.

Online Ray D

  • Posts: 4880
Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #358: November 29, 2012, 06:23:55 PM »
Why does Quote not work?

Offline lastobjective

  • Posts: 4725
  • Natitude
Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #359: November 29, 2012, 06:30:39 PM »
Morse+Espi to the rays for a pitcher
I assume you want Lombo moved to 2B?

Offline lastobjective

  • Posts: 4725
  • Natitude
Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #360: November 29, 2012, 06:31:36 PM »
Why does Quote not work?

We don't know, either turn off quickreply (hit the plus button above quickreply, THEN hit "reply") or right click on the Reply button, click "Open in New Tab", and now you can quote them.

Online zimm_da_kid

  • Posts: 6264
  • Sign all the Cubans
Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #361: November 29, 2012, 06:50:47 PM »

Online comish4lif

  • Posts: 2603
  • Too Stressed to care.
Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #362: November 29, 2012, 06:51:19 PM »
We don't know, either turn off quickreply (hit the plus button above quickreply, THEN hit "reply") or right click on the Reply button, click "Open in New Tab", and now you can quote them.
Ahh, and I thought it was just me....

Online Nathan

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 10676
  • Wow. Such warnings. Very baseball. Moderator Doge.
Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #363: November 29, 2012, 11:07:37 PM »
The question is, does ALR repeat this season or decline quite a bit.  Wasn't this pretty much LaRoche's career year?  Plus he's on the wrong side of 30.

Offline Squab

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 3719
  • I'm feeling a tear coming on.
Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #364: November 30, 2012, 12:00:00 AM »
The question is, does ALR repeat this season or decline quite a bit.  Wasn't this pretty much LaRoche's career year?  Plus he's on the wrong side of 30.

He'll probably decline a bit, put up his more typical year:
.270/.340/.470 25 HR and +Defense

He's been remarkably consistent when healthy, not sure if he'll hold up for three more years but I could live with giving him the third year.

Online Ray D

  • Posts: 4880
Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #365: November 30, 2012, 09:36:55 AM »
We don't know, either turn off quickreply (hit the plus button above quickreply, THEN hit "reply") or right click on the Reply button, click "Open in New Tab", and now you can quote them.

Amazing.  Thanks.

Online Slateman

  • Posts: 24438
Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #366: November 30, 2012, 10:41:02 AM »
In the last two years, both of these guys have had career years with the bat.

2011 Mike Morse: .303/.360/.550; .241 ISO;  31 HR, 95 RBIs; 3.3 WAR
2012 Adam Laroche: .271/.343/.510; .238 ISO; 33 HRs, 100 RBIs; 3.8 WAR

For WAR, it should be noted that Fangraphs started weighting defensive positions in 2012.

So, essentially, Laroche's prowess with the bat was worth an additional .5 WAR. Morse, on the other hand, was significantly better offensively. However, one could make the arguement that a full year of Adam Laroche was a critical part of Ian Desmond posting positive defensive numbers for the first time in his career.

The question becomes, who is most likely to repeat, or hit closer, to their career year? Prior to 2011, Laroche was remarkably consistent in his career. He averaged .271/.340/.488. Good pop, decent OBP. Morse is much more difficult due to his history of injury. But since coming to Washington, he's posted a .296/.345/.516 line. That includes last season when he was still gettin back from injury. We saw Beast Mode really turn it on from the last week of August, slugging at .500 and hitting like the Beast Mode of old.

I don't put a whole lot of faith in the lefty/righty matchup. Good hitting is good hitting and will deal with lefty or righty. However, Laroche does noticeably poorer against LHP, where as Morse does not. Essentially, we would be playing Tyler Moore against left handed starters and possibly using him to pinch hit for Laroche against lefty specialists. Overall, when healthy, Mike Morse appears to be a better hitter than Adam Laroche.

Defensively, we know Laroche is a lot better. He's one of the best defenders at first base in baseball. Is his defense worth a whole lot at first? How much do you value him reducing throwing errors of other players?

Then we have to factor in age. Morse will be 31 next season. Laroche will be 33. A 3 year contract puts him at 36 years old. With Morse only having one year left we only care about his performance next season. All in all, I think Morse is more likely to hit to his Washington averages at 31 than Laroche will be through 36.

Overall, I think I prefer Morse. However, that is dependant on what MOrse could get in a trade.

Online Ray D

  • Posts: 4880
Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #367: November 30, 2012, 10:55:39 AM »
The question becomes, who is most likely to repeat, or hit closer, to their career year?

From a probability view, Morse.  Because there is more data on LaRoche to indicate that 2012 was a spike, and no such data on Morse.  For Morse, it was his first full season, and 2012 may be discounted because of injuries.   On the other hand if the question were posed: who is more likely to hit 25 homeruns and drive in 100 runs, it's LaRoche.

Online Slateman

  • Posts: 24438
Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #368: November 30, 2012, 02:37:02 PM »
From a probability view, Morse.  Because there is more data on LaRoche to indicate that 2012 was a spike, and no such data on Morse.  For Morse, it was his first full season, and 2012 may be discounted because of injuries.   On the other hand if the question were posed: who is more likely to hit 25 homeruns and drive in 100 runs, it's LaRoche.

Disagree. For one, Morse has shown plenty of power. He hit 18 home runs in 102 games last year. That puts him on pace for 27 in a 155 games, not counting how much of the first month he just wasn't quite ready yet. RBIs are a result of baserunners. 2011 Morse would have easily had 100+ RBIs in 2012.

Offensively, Morse > Laroche. And with offense far and exceeding defense at that position, Morse seems like the obvious winner to me. Couple that with getting another 1st round pick out of Laroche walking and I'm going with Morse next season. Love Laroche, but not for 3 years.

Online Ray D

  • Posts: 4880
Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #369: November 30, 2012, 02:40:23 PM »
Couple that with getting another 1st round pick out of Laroche walking

A tangible benefit for sure, but not relevant to the question of who is more likely to reproduce his career year.

Online Slateman

  • Posts: 24438
Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #370: November 30, 2012, 02:45:25 PM »
A tangible benefit for sure, but not relevant to the question of who is more likely to reproduce his career year.
But tangible to what is better for the team over the next 3 years. Which I mark as prime WS winning years.

Offline Tyler Durden

  • Posts: 7971
  • Leprechaun
Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #371: November 30, 2012, 03:55:06 PM »
It's possible the Nats get a pick for LaRoche walking this year and a pick for Morse walking next year.

Online HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 15112
Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #372: November 30, 2012, 03:56:27 PM »
they'd have to offer morse $13 million - considering how much this board seems to have turned on him, people would be freaking out

Online JCA-CrystalCity

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 18073
  • Platoon - not just a movie, a baseball obsession
Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #373: November 30, 2012, 04:12:59 PM »
It is not so much turning on him as saying how is his fit witht he Nats going forward and how can we maximize his value.  I think 90% of the board, including JCA, thinks the guy is a great person and enjoyed his time playing for the team.  I'd also guess there are many here who view the whole "ALR or Morse" issue as "choose between which of your kids gets sacrificed to Baal?"  Morse has a great personality and performed well here, and ALR, while quieter, was a legit MVP candidate in 2012. Nevertheless, if ALR can find a team to give him more years and money, I think most of us would say, good, you deserve the best.  And for Morse, when his name comes up in trades, its generally to teams we think should be interested in him because we think he is a good player to fill a position they need, regardless of the quirks of UZR. 

As for Morse being offered arb next year, I think it is based on an assumption that he'll put up a 3+ WAR year at first in 2013 so such an offer would be low risk.

Offline Tyler Durden

  • Posts: 7971
  • Leprechaun
Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #374: November 30, 2012, 04:14:08 PM »
Unless trading Morse brings in an unexpected haul of young pitchers or prospects, trying to get extra picks for LaRoche and Morse might be the best way to help rebuild the farm system.  It's worth offering him what would be basically market value for one year.