Poll

Who would you rather keep?

Adam LaRoche
68 (60.7%)
Michael Morse
44 (39.3%)

Total Members Voted: 112

Author Topic: Morse or LaRoche  (Read 24073 times)

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Offline varoadking

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #300: November 17, 2012, 07:04:36 AM »

I'd let LaRoche walk...we've got plenty of good options, and the Gold Glove & other generous opinions on his fielding differ wildly from mine.

Online GburgNatsFan

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #301: November 17, 2012, 07:24:39 AM »
Differ wildly... you're saying you think he a poor fielder?

I'd let LaRoche walk...we've got plenty of good options, and the Gold Glove & other generous opinions on his fielding differ wildly from mine.


Offline varoadking

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #302: November 17, 2012, 08:23:43 AM »
Differ wildly... you're saying you think he a poor fielder?

Poor...not really...simply not the level that he is given credit for. 

You can hang errors on the other position players for errant throws, but I saw too many that might have been caught by a better glove man.

His mobility and judgement is not all that great. 

IMHO, of course...

Offline Kevrock

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #303: November 17, 2012, 08:46:56 AM »
LaRoche is a stud at first.

Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #304: November 17, 2012, 10:20:01 AM »
You can hang errors on the other position players for errant throws, but I saw too many that might have been caught by a better glove man.

...judgement is not all that great. 

Huh?  Neither of these make much sense to me.  He made a lot of plays most 1B's don't. 

Offline varoadking

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #305: November 17, 2012, 10:22:31 AM »
Huh?  Neither of these make much sense to me.  He made a lot of plays most 1B's don't.

...and from where I sit, he didn't make a lot that most do...

Online mitlen

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #306: November 17, 2012, 10:27:09 AM »
...and from where I sit, he didn't make a lot that most do...

Do you think he could have gotten to more balls or do you think he misplayed the ones he got to?   Or both?

Offline nobleisthyname

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #307: November 17, 2012, 02:17:41 PM »
Poor...not really...simply not the level that he is given credit for. 

You can hang errors on the other position players for errant throws, but I saw too many that might have been caught by a better glove man.

His mobility and judgement is not all that great. 

IMHO, of course...

I don't mean to be too offensive for bashing on your opinion but Adam LaRoche is considered an excellent defensive firstbaseman by essentially every metric you can think of. Morse would be a huge downgrade defensively.

Offline lastobjective

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #308: November 17, 2012, 02:21:02 PM »
I don't mean to be too offensive for bashing on your opinion but Adam LaRoche is considered an excellent defensive firstbaseman by essentially every metric you can think of. Morse would be a huge downgrade defensively.

How was Morse at 1B? I haven't witnessed it.

But Adam is a great fielder in my opinion - he's quick enough and catches Ryan's throws. I never was frustrated with his defense.

Offline Ray D

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #309: November 17, 2012, 02:27:20 PM »
How was Morse at 1B? I haven't witnessed it.

Much, much better than in left.  Probably average to better than average firstbaseman.  No LaRoche of course, not even close. 

But in my opinion first base is the second least important position (second to left field) so the dropoff from LaRoche to Morse wouldn't cost much.  I want us to re-sign LaRoche, not for his fielding but for his offensive production, and the fact that he bats lefthanded.

Offline nobleisthyname

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #310: November 17, 2012, 02:30:23 PM »
Much, much better than in left.  Probably average to better than average firstbaseman.  No LaRoche of course, not even close. 

But in my opinion first base is the second least important position (second to left field) so the dropoff from LaRoche to Morse wouldn't cost much.  I want us to re-sign LaRoche, not for his fielding but for his offensive production, and the fact that he bats lefthanded.

I always felt that Morse was a little below average at first honestly. But I do agree that it's one of the least important positions (which is why the bat must be strong) so a below average firstbaseman doesn't matter all that much.

Offline varoadking

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #311: November 17, 2012, 05:45:42 PM »
I don't mean to be too offensive for bashing on your opinion but Adam LaRoche is considered an excellent defensive firstbaseman by essentially every metric you can think of. Morse would be a huge downgrade defensively.

The short hops in the dirt seemed to give him the most trouble & rightfully so, but the number that got past him seemed disappointingly disproportionate.

Offline varoadking

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #312: November 17, 2012, 05:46:45 PM »
I don't mean to be too offensive for bashing on your opinion but Adam LaRoche is considered an excellent defensive firstbaseman by essentially every metric you can think of. Morse would be a huge downgrade defensively.

It's all good...just my humble opinion and worth every penny paid for it...  ;)

Offline tomterp

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #313: November 17, 2012, 08:54:12 PM »
I always felt that Morse was a little below average at first honestly. But I do agree that it's one of the least important positions (which is why the bat must be strong) so a below average firstbaseman doesn't matter all that much.

This seems about right.

Offline imref

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #314: November 17, 2012, 11:23:08 PM »
i'm more concerned with losing the LH bat then the glove.  LaRoche just seems to be a perfect fit for this team.

Online Slateman

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #315: November 19, 2012, 09:13:35 AM »
Honestly don't care. I don't buy the LH bat thing. There's enough guys on this lineup who hit well whether it's righty or lefty. I don't see the point in investing a lot of money in a guy who will not be able to replicate his numbers. Thats money we're all going to want for our young guys.

Offline natspride

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #316: November 19, 2012, 11:56:31 AM »
Honestly don't care. I don't buy the LH bat thing. There's enough guys on this lineup who hit well whether it's righty or lefty. I don't see the point in investing a lot of money in a guy who will not be able to replicate his numbers. Thats money we're all going to want for our young guys.

I agree.

Heck, I'd rather have Upton personally.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #317: November 19, 2012, 12:02:31 PM »
Honestly don't care. I don't buy the LH bat thing. There's enough guys on this lineup who hit well whether it's righty or lefty. I don't see the point in investing a lot of money in a guy who will not be able to replicate his numbers. Thats money we're all going to want for our young guys.

if that's the case then yes, but if loosing laroche because we don't want to guarantee the third year means bringing in Upton for more years and more money, I'd just assume bring back laroche


Offline PebbleBall

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #318: November 19, 2012, 12:38:34 PM »
Honestly don't care. I don't buy the LH bat thing. There's enough guys on this lineup who hit well whether it's righty or lefty. I don't see the point in investing a lot of money in a guy who will not be able to replicate his numbers. Thats money we're all going to want for our young guys.

I don't see the point in worrying about him falling short of his numbers this season.  33 HR aside, he's a reliable defender and yeah, a decent LH bat.  What's wrong with giving him an extension for those reasons? 

Even if he gets a 3rd year, that's money that will be off the books by the time any of the core "young guys" hit FA.

Online Slateman

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #319: November 19, 2012, 01:59:26 PM »
I don't see the point in worrying about him falling short of his numbers this season.  33 HR aside, he's a reliable defender and yeah, a decent LH bat.  What's wrong with giving him an extension for those reasons? 

Even if he gets a 3rd year, that's money that will be off the books by the time any of the core "young guys" hit FA.

Money can be spent elsewhere. If I thought he could repeat last season's numbers, then I'd say do it. But honestly, Morse is just as capable of putting up those numbers. Moore could likely do it in a full season. On top of that, in a year or two, we could end up moving Zimmerman or Rendon there. Quite simply, his bat is average for a first baseman and there's no reason to spend a lot of money and years on it.

It's money that could be spent adding a free agent that fills a hole. Such as a starting pitcher.

Online houston-nat

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #320: November 21, 2012, 01:04:49 PM »
Dave Cameron still hates Michael Morse.

Comment From Mike Morse
why do you dislike me so much? I am a respectable hitter in that lineup and a decent 3rd OF behind Werth and Harper.
Dave Cameron: You're not an OF, and your offense is mostly BABIP driven. You're a mediocre player who shouldn't start on a contender.

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #321: November 21, 2012, 01:12:51 PM »
Dave Cameron still hates Michael Morse.

Comment From Mike Morse
why do you dislike me so much? I am a respectable hitter in that lineup and a decent 3rd OF behind Werth and Harper.
Dave Cameron: You're not an OF, and your offense is mostly BABIP driven. You're a mediocre player who shouldn't start on a contender.

Cameron is still and will always be an ass.  I'm happy for him that he beat leukemia (I think?) but as far as his analysis, I'm not a big fan.  He is WAY too SABR oriented for my tastes and comes off way snobby about it.  I like good old fashioned hard ball with a mix of math rather than strictly believing in the statistics.

Offline imref

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #322: November 21, 2012, 02:03:16 PM »
Money can be spent elsewhere. If I thought he could repeat last season's numbers, then I'd say do it. But honestly, Morse is just as capable of putting up those numbers. Moore could likely do it in a full season. On top of that, in a year or two, we could end up moving Zimmerman or Rendon there. Quite simply, his bat is average for a first baseman and there's no reason to spend a lot of money and years on it.

It's money that could be spent adding a free agent that fills a hole. Such as a starting pitcher.

I disagree, LaRoche is a reliable LH .250/25HR middle of the order bat with a great glove at 1B.  I don't think you replace him that easily.  Morse had one career year and a lot of injury issues.  I love the guy, but I trust LaRoche's reliability a lot more.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #323: November 21, 2012, 05:15:50 PM »
Dave Cameron still hates Michael Morse.

Comment From Mike Morse
why do you dislike me so much? I am a respectable hitter in that lineup and a decent 3rd OF behind Werth and Harper.
Dave Cameron: You're not an OF, and your offense is mostly BABIP driven. You're a mediocre player who shouldn't start on a contender.

At this point, the BABIP should not be considered flukey.  Since 2005, it's not been below .330 any season at any level at which he's gotten 250 PAs.  Bill James projects his BABIp at .336.  At some point, Cameron should set aside his USS Mariners preconceptions and look at how Morse has played.  The USSM folks loved the Langerhans trade at the time.  Time to give up.

Offline Kevrock

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #324: November 21, 2012, 05:25:57 PM »
I enjoy a lot of what Cameron writes, particularly his analysis of free agent contracts and extensions, but he's way off here.

Should we expect his 2011 season every year? No. Is he a "mediocre player who shouldn't start on a contender"? Of course not, that's a laughable notion.