Poll

Who would you rather keep?

Adam LaRoche
68 (60.7%)
Michael Morse
44 (39.3%)

Total Members Voted: 112

Author Topic: Morse or LaRoche  (Read 22621 times)

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Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #250: November 02, 2012, 07:34:25 PM »
I understand that, my question is what makes you think the team is going to offer what "crowdsourcers" say.

well, I know it is fanboys and not front office folks making those estimates, but those predictions don't have a track record of being all that bad.  the market is going to be a scatter of estimates of the value of ALR, and some will be higher and some will be lower.  I'm not even saying Rizzo will even look at that number.  I just think if that is the number a reasonable number of smart people are kicking around, then that is likely to be not an absurd estimate of how Rizzo will read the market.  It would be strange if he thinks that ALR is only going to get another 2 year, $16MM contract with a consensus estimate like that. 

Edit - I am not saying Rizzo makes the 3/$36MM offer.  All that says is that is a reasonable guess of what he can get from some team.

Offline PebbleBall

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #251: November 02, 2012, 09:07:58 PM »
Then we aren't signing him. 

Even if LaRoche has decided to return he should wait if he wants the best deal, I don't think the deadline has anything to do with whether or not he signs here.

Online Slateman

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #252: November 02, 2012, 09:14:12 PM »
At least we made a qualifying offer

Online imref

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #253: November 02, 2012, 11:39:22 PM »
it doesn't look like we sign him tonight, maybe he'll see what the market will bring and give us a chance to match.

Carlos Pena is always out there....

Online nobleisthyname

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #254: November 03, 2012, 12:41:58 AM »
Carlos Pena is always out there....

 :spaz:

Offline PC

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #255: November 03, 2012, 12:43:47 AM »
If David Ortiz (at 36 yo) is worth 2/26 then LaRoche is worth at least 3/36.

This has to get done.

Online Ray D

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #256: November 03, 2012, 08:42:46 AM »
maybe he'll see what the market will bring


There's going to be at least one team  that will offer obscene money. After all, who else it out there?   

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #257: November 03, 2012, 10:12:04 AM »
If David Ortiz (at 36 yo) is worth 2/26 then LaRoche is worth at least 3/36.

This has to get done.


he's just a DH, and old, and coming off a year where he played only 90 games, but his past 3 years have been awesome offensively.  He's even dropped his K rate down to ~13%, which is extremely rare for an older hitter.  BTW- the 2/$26MM is exactly the Fangraphs contract crowd source amount. WAR-wise, Ortiz's still a 3 to 4 WAR player.

ALR last year was in the 3 - 4 range for the first time, and someof that was due to the position he plays (v. DH) and his defense.  That said, I do think 3/$36MM is not too much of a stretch.  I'd feel pretty comfortable with 2/$24MM and an option for a 3d year at $12 MM with a $2MM buyout.  That is as much guaranteed money as Ortiz, with a reasonable option likely to be picked up if he does not fall off his career averages. 

Bringing back ALR on that type of deal allows you to give Skole a year at AA and a year at AAA if you want.  I assume Skole will ride a shuttle between the minors and the majors starting sometime next year filling in for injuries, and be ready to push for a bigger role starting in 2013.  ALR then becomes a potential trade candidate.

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #258: November 03, 2012, 11:22:00 AM »
Since we haven't heard anything, I assume Adam LaRoche has hit FA.  At this point I don't think the Nats retain him.  There are other clubs with a stronger need at 1B then the Nats so I don't see the Nats breaking another team's offer.

That being said, that means Morse probably won't be traded and will play 1B for the team next season, which will keep his defensive woes from ruining his offensive value.  Unless Moore plays LF everyday, do you expect to see a trade or FA pickup for either a CF or LF?

Online nobleisthyname

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #259: November 03, 2012, 11:28:10 AM »
I'm not sure I'm comfortable with Moore in left. Is he really any better than Morse there? I'd prefer to keep him on the bench and be a fill in like Lombo for when players inevitably get hurt.

Sign Pagan/BJ Upton or trade for Gordon/Choo/Justin Upton!

Offline houston-nat

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #260: November 03, 2012, 11:31:44 AM »
Since we haven't heard anything, I assume Adam LaRoche has hit FA.

LaRoche has one week from yesterday to accept/reject the $13.3M.

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #261: November 03, 2012, 11:55:46 AM »
LaRoche has one week from yesterday to accept/reject the $13.3M.

Do the Nationals still have exclusive negotiation rights with him during that time or is he essentially a free agent at this point but can still decide whether or not to take the QO?

My fear is that if the Nats lose exclusive negotiation rights with him that he essentially walks because the Nats won't offer what another team will.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #262: November 03, 2012, 11:57:11 AM »
I'm not sure I'm comfortable with Moore in left. Is he really any better than Morse there? I'd prefer to keep him on the bench and be a fill in like Lombo for when players inevitably get hurt.

Sign Pagan/BJ Upton or trade for Gordon/Choo/Justin Upton!

I agree with all of this.  Add Victorino to the list of guys I'd sign.

Online Ray D

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #263: November 03, 2012, 12:21:56 PM »
I'm not sure I'm comfortable with Moore in left. Is he really any better than Morse there?

Moore is much worse.

Online lastobjective

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #264: November 03, 2012, 12:25:33 PM »
Moore is much worse.

Can he learn? He's got to be speedier than Morse.

Online Ray D

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #265: November 03, 2012, 12:34:09 PM »
Can he learn? He's got to be speedier than Morse.

I don't know that he is speedier than Morse, but speed isn't really terribly important in leftfield.

Online lastobjective

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #266: November 03, 2012, 12:35:10 PM »
I don't know that he is speedier than Morse, but speed isn't really terribly important in leftfield.

Sometimes it felt like it was important with Morse, but I understand. You're probably right :P

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #267: November 03, 2012, 01:54:05 PM »
The absolute most years I'd go on any free agent outfielder is 3 years.  Does anyone know what Pagan is asking for?  I feel like he might be able to be had for 2. 

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #268: November 03, 2012, 02:04:55 PM »
Just a thought.  The assumption has been that if LaR doesn't sign, Morse automatically slides over to 1B.  I think there's a real chance Moore ends up there if LaR doesn't come back.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #269: November 03, 2012, 04:27:53 PM »
If you could get Swisher for 4 years, $14MM AAV, would you?  Then you can move Morse even if ALR is gone. 

Hypothetically, TB might value Danny and needs a DH.  They take defensive metrics very seriously, need another middle infielder, and he is still on his pre-arb salary. Put Danny and Morse in a package for Shields, and have Moore and Tracy split time at 1st.

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #270: November 03, 2012, 04:36:29 PM »
let Morse play 2B.

Online lastobjective

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #271: November 03, 2012, 04:37:54 PM »
let Morse play 2B.

:shock: thanks for the nightmares.

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #272: November 03, 2012, 04:39:51 PM »

Hypothetically, TB might value Danny and needs a DH.  They take defensive metrics very seriously, need another middle infielder, and he is still on his pre-arb salary. Put Danny and Morse in a package for Shields, and have Moore and Tracy split time at 1st.

TB would undoubtedly prefer moore over morse.  Moore still has 5 years of team control left as opposed to Morse's 1. 

I would imagine that Danny and Moore could be a start to a Shields deal.

Offline GMUNat

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #273: November 03, 2012, 04:46:28 PM »
How was last season a "Career Year"?  2006 he had a higher BA, higher OBP, higher SLG, higher ISO, he had more XBH in 90 fewer PA, a higher OPS+ and yet last season was a career year? 

Because of context.

His wOBA was 20 points higher in 2006, but with context, his wRC+ was just 2 points higher in 2006 than 2012. His WAR last year was 3.8 and his previous career best was just 2.5 WAR

Offline cletusvandamme

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #274: November 03, 2012, 04:55:06 PM »
Do the Nationals still have exclusive negotiation rights with him during that time or is he essentially a free agent at this point but can still decide whether or not to take the QO?

My fear is that if the Nats lose exclusive negotiation rights with him that he essentially walks because the Nats won't offer what another team will.

He's a full-on free agent. Our window closed.