Poll

Who would you rather keep?

Adam LaRoche
68 (60.7%)
Michael Morse
44 (39.3%)

Total Members Voted: 112

Author Topic: Morse or LaRoche  (Read 23617 times)

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Online Ray D

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #25: October 22, 2012, 02:02:15 PM »
Also, for those who say keep both, implicit in that is the belief that Morse's bat makes up for his defense in LF.  You might get an argument about that.

Morse is unquestionably a below average left fielder, but he's no Adam Dunn. (Who was SO bad in left that they had no choice but to move him out of there.)   I believe that Morse is clearly a better left fielder than Matt Holiday, and the Cardinals are happy with him in left field.

Offline Baseball is Life

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #26: October 22, 2012, 02:04:11 PM »
You gotta roll the dice with ALR and hope he holds up for three years. Keep Moore as a backup to Morse and ALR.

If I've contradicted myself earlier, it's because I keep changing my mind. :whistle:

Offline GburgNatsFan2

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #27: October 22, 2012, 02:04:26 PM »
An important thing to think about is that old players aren't as good now as they were five years ago. Without the 'roids, it's a young man's game.

On the other hand, Morse is what, two years younger?

I'm the other side of this coin.

Offline The Chief

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #28: October 22, 2012, 02:05:29 PM »
I'm neither a firm believer in WAR nor a vocal critic of it, but I believe this information is relevant to the discussion at hand:

2011 Morse - 3.3 WAR
2012 Morse - 0.3 WAR

Even accounting for the 44 fewer games played, that's a big dropoff.

Offline imref

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #29: October 22, 2012, 02:11:06 PM »
Morse has the better walk-up music, but for everything else, I vote LaRoche.

Offline Smithian

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #30: October 22, 2012, 02:32:08 PM »
Why? Why can't we leave Harper in center and bring in a power hitting leftfielder?
Bryce Harper's future is a 50 homer a year All-Star. If he grows any more, it may be best to move him to the corner outfield just to slightly reduce the wear and tear. He is a already a good CF. I think wherever he ends up in the out field he'll eventually win a Gold Glove.

And yes, I do think Bryce Harper will be the greatest player of all time, but that is for another thread.

Offline Smithian

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #31: October 22, 2012, 02:33:34 PM »
For those who say, "keep both," the big question is, how big a contract are you willing to offer ALR in order to make it so?  Years and dollars.  The mutual option will not be exercised by both sides. If it were, I don't think there would be a person who objects.   The qualifying offer for compensation is 1 year, $13.3MM. 
I don't know. Not my job to figure out contract numbers.

If he leaves, I just will be pissed if it comes out we low balled him. Give him a competitive offer and hope for the best.


Online Slateman

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #32: October 22, 2012, 02:35:36 PM »
I'm neither a firm believer in WAR nor a vocal critic of it, but I believe this information is relevant to the discussion at hand:

2011 Morse - 3.3 WAR
2012 Morse - 0.3 WAR

Even accounting for the 44 fewer games played, that's a big dropoff.

Laroche is coming of a career year. 3.8 WAR. I suspect he will fall down to his usual 2.3-2.5 WAR season. So the questions is if Morse can stay healthy and reproduce 2011

Online blue911

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #33: October 22, 2012, 02:50:21 PM »
I would try and swap Morse for Buehrle.

Offline NationalHeat

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #34: October 22, 2012, 02:58:14 PM »
I would try and swap Morse for Buehrle.

Won't happen. Loria loves Mark.

I'd rather have ALR all things equal. But I'm totally against a long term deal.

Offline PebbleBall

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #35: October 22, 2012, 03:00:00 PM »
Laroche is coming of a career year. 3.8 WAR. I suspect he will fall down to his usual 2.3-2.5 WAR season. So the questions is if Morse can stay healthy and reproduce 2011

LaRoche had a career year.  So did Morse in 2011.  Why are you assuming what happens with LaRoche, but leaving Morse up in the air? 

It's beside the point to compare them directly anyway.  By WAR, there are clear OF upgrades to Morse available.  To me it's a much more sure way to improve the team than trying to replace LaRoche.

Offline monkeyhit

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #36: October 22, 2012, 03:08:26 PM »
This is easy. Morse is basically done:  can't field, run, or hit much any more and you have a younger, cheaper and better version in Tyler Moore.  LaRoche, is the left-handed power hitter, fielder non pariel that this young team won so many games with this past year.  Just a matter of getting the contract done quickly and then getting something - bullpen arm - for Mikey.

Online Slateman

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #37: October 22, 2012, 03:15:38 PM »
LaRoche had a career year.  So did Morse in 2011.  Why are you assuming what happens with LaRoche, but leaving Morse up in the air? 

It's beside the point to compare them directly anyway.  By WAR, there are clear OF upgrades to Morse available.  To me it's a much more sure way to improve the team than trying to replace LaRoche.


Because there's no real standard to measure Morse by. He's been injured almost his whole career. In fact, the end of 2010 and the 2011 season are the longest he's remained healthy. And he raked. When he was healthy this season, he hit well.

I think expecting more out of Laroche than his normal season is asking a lot of a guy over 30.  But, even as unhealthy as he was, Morse OPS'd almost .800.

It all depends on how healthy Morse can stay. If he's healthy, he's a better hitter. If not, LaRoche is better.

Online Ray D

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #38: October 22, 2012, 03:17:47 PM »
This is easy. Morse is basically done:  can't field, run, or hit much any more and you have a younger, cheaper and better version in Tyler Moore.

Say what you will about Morse's fielding in left - and I won't disagree --  Moore is worse. As far as I have been able to tell far worse.  Would you trust left field to him for a full season.


Offline MorseTheHorse

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #39: October 22, 2012, 03:26:29 PM »
Keep em both.  With inter-league play (and the World Series) Morse will see some time at DH.  With injuries it's good to keep as many good guys as you can out there (Ankiel and Nady combined for almost 300 PA this year).  Our team will probably go into the season world-series favorites.  Trading away Morse for prospects makes little sense in that setting, and not signing LaRoche, for what I can only assume would be a decent amount below what the market would pay, would also make no sense.  Just my opinion. 

Also Morse was 5th in WPA and 4th in RE24 this year among hitters on the team.  He produced.  No it wasn't 2011, but it was decent.   

Now the actual question if I had to keep one who would it be.  I voted with my heart not my mind...

Offline GburgNatsFan2

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #40: October 22, 2012, 04:17:34 PM »
Maybe the difference is that Moore has potential. What you see from Morse, that's it. Moore is faster, younger, more agile, more teachable. Maybe.

But I do want Morse here next year.

Say what you will about Morse's fielding in left - and I won't disagree --  Moore is worse. As far as I have been able to tell far worse.  Would you trust left field to him for a full season.

Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #41: October 22, 2012, 04:37:42 PM »
Bryce Harper's future is a 50 homer a year All-Star. If he grows any more, it may be best to move him to the corner outfield just to slightly reduce the wear and tear. He is a already a good CF. I think wherever he ends up in the out field he'll eventually win a Gold Glove.

And yes, I do think Bryce Harper will be the greatest player of all time, but that is for another thread.

I think you can keep him there for a couple of years, though, and let Goodwin, one of the other options coming up,  or wait for a better FA option presents itself.  I don't think there's a huge rush to move him to a corner.

Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #42: October 22, 2012, 04:39:47 PM »
Say what you will about Morse's fielding in left - and I won't disagree --  Moore is worse. As far as I have been able to tell far worse.  Would you trust left field to him for a full season.

Had Moore EVER played the OF before this year, professionally or in college?  I was thinking he hadn't.  Let's see if he improves during the winter and the spring.  I'm guessing he will.  He looked to me like he had the ability, he was just a little raw.

Offline imref

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #43: October 22, 2012, 04:46:48 PM »
I would try and swap Morse for Buehrle.

FL would laugh you out of the room.

Offline imref

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #44: October 22, 2012, 04:47:45 PM »
IMHO, Morse's best fit is with an AL team where he can DH, play some 1B and play the OF. 

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #45: October 22, 2012, 04:48:27 PM »
Before we get too optimistic about Moore's ability to play left, let's wonder why every coach before davy had him at the easiest defensive position, and why the Nats, even with a bunch of first basemen over the years (from Nick Johnson to Dunn to ALR to Morse - and Marrero) always had Moore at first in the minors.

Offline Coladar

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #46: October 22, 2012, 04:50:52 PM »
You don't screw with what gets you results. You keep both. Both guys combine with Harper and Zimmerman to form the offensive nucleus. You offer LaRoche a reasonable deal. He takes it or he's an idiot and we get the pick. He loves this town, look at the letter his parents sent to the WaPo last week. This team gets him back to the playoffs. He takes any reasonable deal. There is no reason not to.

Don't go losing one of your power bats just when things turn out sunny. Both.

Offline imref

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #47: October 22, 2012, 04:52:14 PM »
Before we get too optimistic about Moore's ability to play left, let's wonder why every coach before davy had him at the easiest defensive position, and why the Nats, even with a bunch of first basemen over the years (from Nick Johnson to Dunn to ALR to Morse - and Marrero) always had Moore at first in the minors.

Didn't he switch to the OF last year?

Online Ray D

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #48: October 22, 2012, 04:54:00 PM »
You offer LaRoche a reasonable deal. He takes it or he's an idiot and we get the pick.

Well that assumes that 13.5M (or whatever it is, the amount needed to qualify for compensation) is reasonable.  Some think he's not worth that much.

Offline Coladar

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #49: October 22, 2012, 04:59:59 PM »
Well that assumes that 13.5M (or whatever it is, the amount needed to qualify for compensation) is reasonable.  Some think he's not worth that much.


I can understand that. From my perspective, it is reasonable. This is a good team. A good clubhouse. It blends well together, and LaRoche is a leader. For me, you don't f*** with that dynamic over 13.5 million. A Soriano contract, yeah, screw it. But this? Don't mess with a good thing.