Poll

Who would you rather keep?

Adam LaRoche
68 (60.7%)
Michael Morse
44 (39.3%)

Total Members Voted: 112

Author Topic: Morse or LaRoche  (Read 23967 times)

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Offline Mattionals

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #975: January 10, 2013, 08:01:10 PM »
I doubt that Seattle would trade for Michael Morse, since the current GM there was the same guy who sent him to AAA in 2009 and then made the deal to trade him to us for Ryan Langerhans.  The GM is not going to admit that he was wrong about Morse by trading for him.

(Image removed from quote.)
"Look Ma, no bat!"


Case and point the Mariners need a bat.  Morse could make sense for them.  Jack Z is not going to care if he traded him when he was seen as a replacement level player and then blossomed elsewhere.

Online tomterp

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #976: January 10, 2013, 08:07:33 PM »
Morse getting moved for scraps isn't an undervaluation by people on this board... it's a likely reality. If you read most people's posts about Morse, they realize it's impossible to get fair market value for him... we're resigned to the fact that it'll likely be a small piece in return and not what a slugger could/might bring.

It's always a mistake to value a player based on his stats alone.  Contract terms are as much of  a factor as performance.    $7m for 2013 (modest plus) combined with only one more year of control (significant negative) combine to erode his value.

Offline Mr Clean

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #977: January 10, 2013, 08:21:40 PM »
Upton (DBacks) just nixed a deal to go to Seattle. He has a no trade clause. Ms may yet come calling.

Online Lintyfresh85

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #978: January 10, 2013, 08:24:45 PM »
Upton (DBacks) just nixed a deal to go to Seattle. He has a no trade clause. Ms may yet come calling.

One's a 5 tool player with years of control. One is a plodder with one year of control. I doubt they'll see it as a suitable replacement. But we can hope!

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #979: January 10, 2013, 08:30:23 PM »
One's a 5 tool player with years of control. One is a plodder with one year of control. I doubt they'll see it as a suitable replacement. But we can hope!

One seems to not be a clubhouse guy and one is the soul of a team.  I think Upton's value has been diminished because Arizona is so eager to trade him and it won't help that Upton just rejected a trade.

Online Lintyfresh85

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #980: January 10, 2013, 08:35:10 PM »
One seems to not be a clubhouse guy and one is the soul of a team.  I think Upton's value has been diminished because Arizona is so eager to trade him and it won't help that Upton just rejected a trade.

I'd love some proof that Upton isn't a clubhouse guy. Arizona is out their mind and he's been a pretty good soldier.

Plus, the next time a team leads a press conference off with "well, he's a good clubhouse guy so we took him over the massively better player" will be a first.

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #981: January 10, 2013, 08:39:15 PM »
I'd love some proof that Upton isn't a clubhouse guy. Arizona is out their mind and he's been a pretty good soldier.

Plus, the next time a team leads a press conference off with "well, he's a good clubhouse guy so we took him over the massively better player" will be a first.

Tweets are saying it was going to be Furbush, Pryor, Nick Franklin and one of Hultzen, Walker or Paxton.  I think expectations for Morse can be set with Capps and Luetge.  If there is any way the Nats can somehow also nab Brandon Maurer, then Rizzo is again stealing from Jack Z.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #982: January 10, 2013, 08:51:01 PM »
The Mariners can sign Travis Hafner and Luke Scott and give up nothing.

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #983: January 10, 2013, 08:56:37 PM »
I apologize for the double post, but this is probably the first hard decision that Nats fans will have to endure.  I even took Wonkass Lobdizzle's poll online and the general consensus was to keep Morse.  Granted like three people in history have ever looked at his page so I don't think being outnumbered by two votes to my one stirs up any controversy.

I do think that this will be what we fans will have to endure when we inevitably let certain fan favorites walk unless by some means the Nats become the Yankees and hold onto the core.  I even doubt that because the Yanks only had to really hold onto four guys, and Pettitte did play for the Astros for 3 seasons.  If the core consists of Harper, Stras, JZimm, Desmond, Gio, Ramos and Det, then you have a very very very big budget.  It's a taste of what will come in four years time.

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #984: January 10, 2013, 08:58:28 PM »
The Mariners can sign Travis Hafner and Luke Scott and give up nothing.

Scott can't hit and Hafner can't stay healthy and is 35.  They give up nothing, but they don't improve.  Now the other side of the coin is if adding Morse but taking out Luetge and Capps is a net positive for the M's.  That is a toughie.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #985: January 10, 2013, 08:58:59 PM »
Of the guys you listed three of them are going to be on the decline in three years.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #986: January 10, 2013, 09:00:47 PM »
Scott can't hit and Hafner can't stay healthy and is 35.  They give up nothing, but they don't improve. 

Platooning those guys beats anyone they had on their roster last year.

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #987: January 10, 2013, 09:02:23 PM »
Of the guys you listed three of them are going to be on the decline in three years.

Which three?

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #988: January 10, 2013, 09:03:53 PM »

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #989: January 10, 2013, 09:24:43 PM »
I think expectations for Morse can be set with Capps and Luetge.  If there is any way the Nats can somehow also nab Brandon Maurer, then Rizzo is again stealing from Jack Z.

Heck, I'd even be willing to throw in Maya to round out their rotation.

Capps or McGee are my targets in Morse negotiations.

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #990: January 10, 2013, 10:47:50 PM »
How about a three way trade.  Cope should be the negotiator.

Any way to work out a three way trade to get Capps and Franklin Morales?

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #991: January 11, 2013, 07:02:24 AM »
Trade Morse to the Rays so they side with us in the MASN negotiations nonsense.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #992: January 11, 2013, 12:15:02 PM »
I just don't see how the Red Sox keep Miller, Morales, and Breslow when they have 5 or more righties they want to keep in the bullpen (Hanrahan, Bailey, Uehara, Tazawa, Bard, Aceves, and I'm forgetting a few w/o options).  They have to move bullpen pieces as much as we have to move Morse.  You can argue Breslow isn't enough in terms of WAR for WAR, but I agree that Morales would be the type of guy you'd expect Rizzo to be interested in - hard thrower, useful out of the bullpen, some good starts in the majors last year as well.  I would think a move for one of those lefties makes even more sense for them than making more than a 2 year commitment to Napoli. 

A lot is made out of Morse's glove and his minus 28 UZR-base fielding runs over the past 3 years, but about 22 of those negative runs have been run up in the outfield.  Napoli has a better fielding component of his WAR on Fangraphs, but a lot of that was run up at catcher, which I think starts with a positive positional adjustment of 20 runs over left.  Just looking at their 1st base UZR since 2010, Morse has played 888.1 innings and compiled a -2.7 UZR, while Napoli has played 1040.1 innings and compiled a -2.6 UZR.   While there probably are not enough innings to say those are measures of their true talent, what I think you can say is that is that the UZR at first base does not decisively point to one or the other being a better fielder.

As a fan of both the Sox and the Nats, I would love the Sox to walk away from Napoli and deal Morales for Morse.  I just don't see a $26MM - $39MM commitment to Napoli over multiple years to be as much in their interest as a $7MM 1 year commitment to Morse (less whatever Breslow or Morales makes). If I were the Nats, I might expect a little more than just Morales, but that's for Rizzo and Cherington to figure out.

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #993: January 11, 2013, 12:39:21 PM »
I just don't see how the Red Sox keep Miller, Morales, and Breslow when they have 5 or more righties they want to keep in the bullpen (Hanrahan, Bailey, Uehara, Tazawa, Bard, Aceves, and I'm forgetting a few w/o options).  They have to move bullpen pieces as much as we have to move Morse.  You can argue Breslow isn't enough in terms of WAR for WAR, but I agree that Morales would be the type of guy you'd expect Rizzo to be interested in - hard thrower, useful out of the bullpen, some good starts in the majors last year as well.  I would think a move for one of those lefties makes even more sense for them than making more than a 2 year commitment to Napoli. 

A lot is made out of Morse's glove and his minus 28 UZR-base fielding runs over the past 3 years, but about 22 of those negative runs have been run up in the outfield.  Napoli has a better fielding component of his WAR on Fangraphs, but a lot of that was run up at catcher, which I think starts with a positive positional adjustment of 20 runs over left.  Just looking at their 1st base UZR since 2010, Morse has played 888.1 innings and compiled a -2.7 UZR, while Napoli has played 1040.1 innings and compiled a -2.6 UZR.   While there probably are not enough innings to say those are measures of their true talent, what I think you can say is that is that the UZR at first base does not decisively point to one or the other being a better fielder.

As a fan of both the Sox and the Nats, I would love the Sox to walk away from Napoli and deal Morales for Morse.  I just don't see a $26MM - $39MM commitment to Napoli over multiple years to be as much in their interest as a $7MM 1 year commitment to Morse (less whatever Breslow or Morales makes). If I were the Nats, I might expect a little more than just Morales, but that's for Rizzo and Cherington to figure out.

Awesome insight on UZR!  Also aside from Morales, could the Nats get another RP or SP prospect?  Morse and HRod for Morales and De La Rosa?  :mg:

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #994: January 11, 2013, 12:44:21 PM »
I think that would Ruby them the wrong way.  I would up our offer if we could get them to toss in Ranaudo, who they are disappointed in.  If we can fix him, he was a stud in college (actually, he was a stud in college regardless of whether we can fix him).

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #995: January 11, 2013, 12:48:25 PM »
I think that would Ruby them the wrong way.  I would up our offer if we could get them to toss in Ranaudo, who they are disappointed in.  If we can fix him, he was a stud in college (actually, he was a stud in college regardless of whether we can fix him).

Anthony Ranaudo would be pretty good as a pickup.  If he is converted to a RP, he could add velocity to his fastball and not worry about developing the change right away.  He is tall though, but we do have a pretty decent history with some tall guys and getting them to repeat their deliveries.

Offline imref

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #996: January 11, 2013, 04:30:09 PM »
MLBTR's round-up of Morse rumors:

Quote
The Yankees called the Nationals about Morse after Washington signed LaRoche, Jack Curry of the YES Network reports (on Twitter). The sides will eventually discuss a deal, but the Nationals weren’t ready to talk trades when the Yankees first called.
The Red Sox are one of the teams in contact with the Nationals about Morse, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reports. Rosenthal suggests Morse could be an alternative to Mike Napoli at first base in Boston. However, the Red Sox would need to part with young talent and possibly a left-handed reliever to obtain Morse.
The Rays have also been linked to Morse, who's drawing interest from several teams.

Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#7vZ3yG8DtwG3J3OM.99

Offline imref

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #997: January 13, 2013, 11:18:12 AM »

Offline madj55

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #998: January 13, 2013, 11:21:56 AM »
I feel like Tampa is the best fit to trade him to, also I could still cheer for him if he wound up there.

Offline nicksnats

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #999: January 13, 2013, 02:17:26 PM »
Nooooooo We cant trade Morse! Will A-HA leave with him?!

Serious, LaRoche is much more consistent and makes more sense to keep. As much as we all love Morse hes just not a consistent hitter and not very mobile in the outfield.

Ill still follow the guy wherever he ends up though!