Poll

Who would you rather keep?

Adam LaRoche
68 (60.7%)
Michael Morse
44 (39.3%)

Total Members Voted: 112

Author Topic: Morse or LaRoche  (Read 24392 times)

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Offline Rasta

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #575: December 11, 2012, 04:27:23 PM »
I don't think Rizzo realistically assessed Morse's trade value.  I think his plan was: Trade for Span, trade Morse, sign LaRoche.  I'd be happy with that if we could get the value in return for Morse that we all think he's worth.  But we can't.

I continue to believe that there is an agreement with LaRoche which will be announced after the Morse trade.   The plan has stalled because he can't get the return on Morse that he expected.

I respect your opinion but disagree.  From what Bos has said, Rizzo has a white board with rosters and budgets for at least 5 years out.  I personally don't think he assumed anything about the return Morse could bring.  I think it's a case of ALR and Morse both working at 1B if they need them to but they prefer ALR and are simply waiting to see what happens. 


Online imref

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #576: December 11, 2012, 04:28:11 PM »
While Michael Morse twists slowly slowly in the wind. 

he's coming off his honeymoon, i'm sure he's keeping himself busy. :)

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #577: December 11, 2012, 04:28:48 PM »
interesting tidbit from billy lorbledorb's inbox today

I always thought Lorb was unique.

Can anyone make a case that Morse's range or arm is even average for a left fielder, either based on numbers or some other sort of argument.  I can maybe see an argument that it is tolerable given his projected bat, but this guy just has never shown himself to be within the the judgment call range of being average defensively in left or right.

Online blue911

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #578: December 11, 2012, 04:31:09 PM »
I always thought Lorb was unique.

Can anyone make a case that Morse's range or arm is even average for a left fielder, either based on numbers or some other sort of argument.  I can maybe see an argument that it is tolerable given his projected bat, but this guy just has never shown himself to be within the the judgment call range of being average defensively in left or right.

If you drink enough hard liquor he appears somewhat adequate

Online houston-nat

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #579: December 11, 2012, 04:32:28 PM »
interesting tidbit from billy lorbledorb's inbox today

There are Nats fans in Chile?!

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #580: December 11, 2012, 04:34:29 PM »
If you drink enough hard liquor he appears somewhat adequate
I'll work on that at CCSP. 

Who won the Denver game?

Offline PC

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #581: December 11, 2012, 05:35:35 PM »
This is why I didn't like this trade.  I don't like trades that back you into a corner which is precisely what this trade did.  Adding Span to the team forces the team's hand, forces the team to either trade away Morse or not resign LaRoche.

Trades are best when they fill a void.  This trade didn't fill a void.

Offline Squab

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #582: December 11, 2012, 05:44:39 PM »
Trades are best when they fill a void.  This trade didn't fill a void.

Unless you consider CF or leadoff hitter a void, which some don't. I think Harper could have handled CF with occasional breaks and Werth could have been a serviceable leadoff hitter. But Rizzo wants Harper at a corner to take the strain of playing CF off of him and he believes (probably rightly so) that Werth belongs in the middle of the lineup, so he probably sees the trade filling two voids.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #583: December 11, 2012, 05:57:39 PM »
This is why I didn't like this trade.  I don't like trades that back you into a corner which is precisely what this trade did.  Adding Span to the team forces the team's hand, forces the team to either trade away Morse or not resign LaRoche.
Adding Span gave the team leverage over the asset it does not control, which is LaRoche.  It is the opposite of backing the team in the corner. 

They were not going to go into next year with Morse in left, either.  If they get ALR on precisely the type of contract they want, then i'm sure every day that Morse is still here Rizzo will say, "we aren't giving Lannan Morse away; tyler moore has options."  They'll have an asset to trade. That's not being backed into a corner.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #584: December 11, 2012, 05:58:47 PM »
Nats have no voids right now.  All the spots are filled with guys currently on the roster.  If they think bringing back LaRoche and trading Morse would be an upgrade, they'd do it. 

Ray D - if Rizzo went so far as to have an agreement in place with LaRoche before the Span trade, why wouldn't he have done the same for Morse in a trade?  Or at least gauged his value with other teams? 

I'm perfectly happy keeping Morse as the 1B for 2013 and pocketing the pick for LaRoche.  I don't buy the argument that LaRoche improves the whole infield defense.  He is probably a little better at fielding grounders and catching popups at 1B, but I dont think he would affect Desmond's and Zimmerman's defense.  And I definitely don't buy the LH bat argument.  Morse is just as good, if not better, against RHPs.

Offline PC

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #585: December 11, 2012, 06:10:50 PM »
Adding Span gave the team leverage over the asset it does not control, which is LaRoche.  It is the opposite of backing the team in the corner. 

They were not going to go into next year with Morse in left, either.  If they get ALR on precisely the type of contract they want, then i'm sure every day that Morse is still here Rizzo will say, "we aren't giving Lannan Morse away; tyler moore has options."  They'll have an asset to trade. That's not being backed into a corner.

Of course, LaRoche could get a three year deal from another team and say SEE YA to Mike Rizzo.  So much for leverage.  An injury/arrest/suspension to another team's first baseman is still possible.

And what makes you think that, if the trade wasn't made, they wouldn't have kept Morse at left?  My problem, primarily, is that Morse will be gone after this coming season, regardless.  A void would have been created, by default.  This trade didn't have to be done.  I also believe that adding Span and subtracting Morse or LaRoche makes the team, makes the offense, specifically, weaker.

Online DPMOmaha

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #586: December 11, 2012, 06:22:51 PM »
Morse is just as good, if not better, against RHPs.
He's not, actually.  He's got a better BA, but LaRoche has him beat just about everywhere else.  Last year that held up vs. LHP's too, but that hasn't necessarily been true if you include their whole careers.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #587: December 11, 2012, 06:29:53 PM »
It doesn't hold true at all for career numbers.

LaRoche - http://www.fangraphs.com/statsplits.aspx?playerid=1904&position=1B&season=0

Morse - http://www.fangraphs.com/statsplits.aspx?playerid=3035&position=1B/OF&season=0

LaRoche vs righties - .358 wOBA
LaRoche vs lefties - .324 wOBA

Morse vs righties - .360 wOBA
Morse vs lefties - .371 wOBA

I don't think LaRoche will maintain last year's level of performance going forward.  He's at the age when guys start to decline.

Online houston-nat

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #588: December 11, 2012, 07:22:31 PM »
Werth may still be our best leadoff hitter.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #589: December 11, 2012, 07:50:48 PM »
I thought of that too.  And maybe batting Span 2nd?  Could bunt, hit and run, etc.

Online Mr Clean

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #590: December 11, 2012, 08:49:16 PM »
Heyman saying the  Sox deal with Napoli in jeopardy due to his physical. Didn't someone here claim the Sox were now in in LaRoche? Hmmm.

Offline nobleisthyname

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #591: December 11, 2012, 08:56:34 PM »
Werth may still be our best leadoff hitter.

I agree. DAT OBP

Offline Ray D

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #592: December 11, 2012, 08:57:40 PM »
Ray D - if Rizzo went so far as to have an agreement in place with LaRoche before the Span trade, why wouldn't he have done the same for Morse in a trade?  Or at least gauged his value with other teams? 

Yes, well of course all of this is pure speculation, but my speculation is that he DID guage Morse's value first, and then after acquiring span, Morse's value declined.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #593: December 11, 2012, 09:02:00 PM »
Yes, well of course all of this is pure speculation, but my speculation is that he DID guage Morse's value first, and then after acquiring span, Morse's value declined.

assuming there is actually a market (ie multiple interested teams) for Morse, span shouldn't effect anything- even if we are more desperate to trade him, if multiple teams want him, they're bidding against each other not negotiating with just us 

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #594: December 11, 2012, 09:34:03 PM »
isn't Morse only about a year behind him?
It doesn't hold true at all for career numbers.

LaRoche - http://www.fangraphs.com/statsplits.aspx?playerid=1904&position=1B&season=0

Morse - http://www.fangraphs.com/statsplits.aspx?playerid=3035&position=1B/OF&season=0

LaRoche vs righties - .358 wOBA
LaRoche vs lefties - .324 wOBA

Morse vs righties - .360 wOBA
Morse vs lefties - .371 wOBA

I don't think LaRoche will maintain last year's level of performance going forward.  He's at the age when guys start to decline.

Offline mitlen

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #595: December 11, 2012, 09:49:08 PM »
Goodness, ALR is down to 58.6% in the poll.

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #596: December 11, 2012, 10:04:52 PM »
Aw yeah.  Pile on those votes all you morse fanboys.

Online DPMOmaha

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #597: December 11, 2012, 10:31:48 PM »
It doesn't hold true at all for career numbers.

LaRoche - http://www.fangraphs.com/statsplits.aspx?playerid=1904&position=1B&season=0

Morse - http://www.fangraphs.com/statsplits.aspx?playerid=3035&position=1B/OF&season=0

LaRoche vs righties - .358 wOBA
LaRoche vs lefties - .324 wOBA

Morse vs righties - .360 wOBA
Morse vs lefties - .371 wOBA

I don't think LaRoche will maintain last year's level of performance going forward.  He's at the age when guys start to decline.
I was looking at that slash line, other than his BA, vs. RHP, ALR came out ahead of Morse in both career and 2012.  But if we're talking vs. righties (which is where the conversation started) and we're talking wOBP, we're splitting hairs, especially considering ALR has 200% more ab's than Morse does. 

Offline Upark25

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #598: December 12, 2012, 09:34:50 AM »
per - mlbtraderumors

Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports wonders if the deal may have hit a snag.  Major league sources say that Napoli was set to be introduced in a press conference today but did not go forward with the event.  It is not known what the holdup is, but the deal is still not official despite being agreed to early last week.  Meanwhile, none of the involved parties have responded to inquiries over the last two hours from Gordon Edes of ESPNBoston (via Twitter).

bye bye LaRoche



Online imref

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Re: Morse or LaRoche
« Reply #599: December 12, 2012, 09:48:16 AM »
Speculation is that there was a problem with Napoli's physical.

http://bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view.bg?articleid=1061181316&position=1