Author Topic: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread  (Read 71718 times)

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Offline hammondsnats

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2325: November 30, 2012, 08:22:20 AM »
go big lerner (greinke) or go home (sell the team)

Offline Hondo

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2326: November 30, 2012, 09:19:19 AM »
Question to ponder...

Does signing a big name guy like Greinke actaully earn us more money at the bargaining table with MASN?  If we signed Greinke, without a doubt, we'd be the favorite to win the World Series, no?

I'm not sure it does, but it's something to think about.  Greinke might help pay for himself.

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2327: November 30, 2012, 09:25:53 AM »
:roll:

He spelled it right in other places in the column.

Online houston-nat

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2328: November 30, 2012, 09:55:09 AM »
If we signed Greinke, without a doubt, we'd be the favorite to win the World Series, no?
I don't think so. The big difference, in the playoffs rather than the regular season, would be Greinke replacing Detwiler in the rotation. And this year Detwiler turned out to be our best playoff pitcher! There's no guarantee Det does it again, but once you get to the playoffs and the different pitching rotation, the improvement in upgrading your 5th starter is not as major as the improvement in upgrading your hitting and your defense.

In that way, the hitting/defense upgrade we get from adding Denard Span in center, and taking Morse out of left field, is actually more significant in helping us reach the next level.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2329: November 30, 2012, 10:07:48 AM »
I don't think so. The big difference, in the playoffs rather than the regular season, would be Greinke replacing Detwiler in the rotation. And this year Detwiler turned out to be our best playoff pitcher! There's no guarantee Det does it again, but once you get to the playoffs and the different pitching rotation, the improvement in upgrading your 5th starter is not as major as the improvement in upgrading your hitting and your defense.

In that way, the hitting/defense upgrade we get from adding Denard Span in center, and taking Morse out of left field, is actually more significant in helping us reach the next level.

Stras also replaces Jackson (a disaster in the playoffs), det in long relief replaces Jackson (a debacle in the payoffs)

Offline NationalHeat

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2330: November 30, 2012, 10:08:57 AM »
I don't think so. The big difference, in the playoffs rather than the regular season, would be Greinke replacing Detwiler in the rotation. And this year Detwiler turned out to be our best playoff pitcher! There's no guarantee Det does it again, but once you get to the playoffs and the different pitching rotation, the improvement in upgrading your 5th starter is not as major as the improvement in upgrading your hitting and your defense.

In that way, the hitting/defense upgrade we get from adding Denard Span in center, and taking Morse out of left field, is actually more significant in helping us reach the next level.

Come on man, our top three starters would be Strasburg, Greinke and Gio. You could shift JZ to the pen pretty much on a permanent basis in the playoffs, or Det (or both) for that matter. Greinke replacing Edwin Jackson, and Stras getting a spot too would be a huge upgrade in the playoffs.

Offline Hondo

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2331: November 30, 2012, 10:13:48 AM »
The upgrades on defense have already happened.  So my comment on the upgrade to Greinke would be in addition to that.  We are already a favorite, but the buzz around this team would grow if we signed Greinke.  I'm just suggesting that buzz equals marketing dollars equals tv rights.  Meaning Greinke might not cost us what the sticker price might say it does.

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2332: November 30, 2012, 10:20:11 AM »
I don't think so. The big difference, in the playoffs rather than the regular season, would be Greinke replacing Detwiler in the rotation. And this year Detwiler turned out to be our best playoff pitcher!

World Series "favorites" aren't chosen based on how a team is expected to play in the postseason. The favorite is who is perceived as the best team and that's based on the regular season.

With Greinke, we'd clearly be the preseason World Series favorite.

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2333: November 30, 2012, 10:31:11 AM »
go big lerner (greinke) or go home (sell the team)

How about Dempster?  He'd be a great option if we can't get Greinke...

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2334: November 30, 2012, 10:32:42 AM »
Question to ponder...

Does signing a big name guy like Greinke actaully earn us more money at the bargaining table with MASN?  If we signed Greinke, without a doubt, we'd be the favorite to win the World Series, no?

No.  Keep in mind that we suffered nothing in terms of injuries to our starting rotation.  There's no way we get that lucky two years in a row. 

Online houston-nat

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2335: November 30, 2012, 10:37:06 AM »
World Series "favorites" aren't chosen based on how a team is expected to play in the postseason. The favorite is who is perceived as the best team and that's based on the regular season.

With Greinke, we'd clearly be the preseason World Series favorite.

Yeah, but nobody cares who the preseason favorite is. The best team in the regular season was us. We WERE (if you go by your own criteria) the World Series favorites.

I'm not talking about the favorites. I'm talking about winning.

Offline Hondo

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2336: November 30, 2012, 10:41:38 AM »
Again, we are already the favorite in Vegas, that's a FACT.  I'm suggesting that signing Greinke would create a huge buzz and that would help in determaining our tv rights value.  I have to believe the big names the dodgers added to the team increased their leverage getting their huge deal.....

Injuries cost us the last month and playoffs worth of Strasburg, what are you talking about?

Offline Hondo

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2337: November 30, 2012, 10:42:59 AM »
Houston -  You don't think advertisers care about who preseason favorites are?  Really? That's what we are talking about here.  I'm talking about how buzz could gain us leverage and more money out of our tv deal.......you are missing the whole point.

Online Slateman

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2338: November 30, 2012, 10:43:05 AM »
I still like Annibal Sanchez on a three year deal. Even a five year deal wouldn't be too bad. He'd be decent 3/4

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2339: November 30, 2012, 11:02:52 AM »
Sanchez would be a nice pickup- 195 to 196 IP over each of the last three years with a sub 4 era

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2340: November 30, 2012, 11:06:19 AM »
Come on man, our top three starters would be Strasburg, Greinke and Gio. You could shift JZ to the pen pretty much on a permanent basis in the playoffs, or Det (or both) for that matter. Greinke replacing Edwin Jackson, and Stras getting a spot too would be a huge upgrade in the playoffs.

My best guess is that against a lefty-dominant line-up, you'd see Det as the 3d starter and JZ intimidating in the pen, and against a righty-dominant team, you'd see Det doing his best Matt Thornton :az: while JZ started.  What a luxury.

Online Slateman

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2341: November 30, 2012, 11:44:28 AM »
My best guess is that against a lefty-dominant line-up, you'd see Det as the 3d starter and JZ intimidating in the pen, and against a righty-dominant team, you'd see Det doing his best Matt Thornton :az: while JZ started.  What a luxury.

Lol, no way. You guys take this lefty/righty thing too far. When you have guys like Strasburg and Grienke, left/righty/switch/both/whatever simply doesn't matter. Domination is domination.

Offline Squab

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2342: November 30, 2012, 11:46:32 AM »
Quote from: @AdamKilgore
Random thought: The Nats have the luxury of shopping Morse with the goal of re-signing LaRoche and Plan B of going with Tyler Moore at 1B.
Quote from: Michael Morse
@AdamKilgoreWP jeez !
Poor Mike!

Offline cmdterps44

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2343: November 30, 2012, 11:47:37 AM »
Exactly. Sure you can look into matchups and see that Greinke doesn't pitch as well against lefties (fyi, I'm not looking at his stats so this is all hypothetical) but I'm sure it wouldn't be much of a difference. These guys can pitch to whoever.

Offline Kevrock

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2344: November 30, 2012, 11:54:00 AM »

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2345: November 30, 2012, 12:01:28 PM »
How about moving Morse AND Moore along with Lombo for a pitcher or two, then letting go of LaRoche and signing Josh Hamilton to play 1B?

Offline rbw5t

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2346: November 30, 2012, 12:05:25 PM »
"Quote from: @AdamKilgore
Random thought: The Nats have the luxury of shopping Morse with the goal of re-signing LaRoche and Plan B of going with Tyler Moore at 1B.
Quote from: Michael Morse
@AdamKilgoreWP jeez !
Poor Mike!"

Man, with modern technology, I actually feel bad for these players having to read about all the stuff people say!  We love and root for these guys, but when the time comes, we have no problem discussing moving them like chattle.  Morse seems like a smart guy and I know rationally he understands it, but it must suck to have 40,000 people signing along to your song and then 2 months later see how casually we discuss shipping you off somewhere for the right price.

Oh well, at least he's well paid for it, and it comes with the terriority.

Offline Kevrock

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2347: November 30, 2012, 12:10:32 PM »
Moore/Span instead of Morse/LaRoche would be such an awful off-season.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2348: November 30, 2012, 12:26:46 PM »
Lol, no way. You guys take this lefty/righty thing too far. When you have guys like Strasburg and Grienke, left/righty/switch/both/whatever simply doesn't matter. Domination is domination.
No, you underplay it too much.  There is a.180 point OPs difference between the best offense v. LHP and the worst in the NL.  Lefty / Lefty match ups are more difficult than righty / righty because you see them less frequently.  While it is not uncommon to find righties who can hit righties, you find lefty batters can be exploited by lefty pitchers much more often. 

Righties hit righties better because it is much more difficult to advance when you can't hit the pitchers you see 2/3 - 3/4 of the time.  Lefties have a natural advantage in baseball.  Count the lefty batting champs over any era of baseball.

As for Strasburg, Grienke, etc... sure, they are dominant, and it is most important to be dominant.  But we are talking line up construction for a season against mixed talents.

Offline WhiteWhale

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2349: November 30, 2012, 12:30:17 PM »
I missed the part where Heat or JCA suggested not starting Strasburg or Grienke