Author Topic: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread  (Read 70687 times)

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Offline NationalHeat

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1550: November 09, 2012, 10:36:17 PM »
Rizzo did draft Upton, I could see it.

Imagine if they did go out and nab Upton and sign Greinke :az:

I think this offseason we see what the real long term plan is - go all in or play the long game?

Offline Mattionals

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1551: November 09, 2012, 11:15:49 PM »
I live in the Big D and am confused by this statement.

The Dodgers are basically showing everyone else that they have the biggest, uhm, funds by signing everybody with a pulse to deals they probably don't really deserve.  They gave Ethier tons of money, Brandon League, the blockbuster trades, etc.  They are the guys going out buying the Bugatti because a Ferrari was too cheap.  The Big D is "Let me come in here and just swing my big ol' d**k around showing off how big I am.

Online houston-nat

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1552: November 09, 2012, 11:40:07 PM »
The Dodgers are basically showing everyone else that they have the biggest, uhm, funds by signing everybody with a pulse to deals they probably don't really deserve.  They gave Ethier tons of money, Brandon League, the blockbuster trades, etc.  They are the guys going out buying the Bugatti because a Ferrari was too cheap.  The Big D is "Let me come in here and just swing my big ol' d**k around showing off how big I am.

That definitely describes parts of Dallas, actually.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1553: November 10, 2012, 12:13:32 AM »
The Dodgers are basically showing everyone else that they have the biggest, uhm, funds by signing everybody with a pulse to deals they probably don't really deserve.  They gave Ethier tons of money, Brandon League, the blockbuster trades, etc.  They are the guys going out buying the Bugatti because a Ferrari was too cheap.  The Big D is "Let me come in here and just swing my big ol' d**k around showing off how big I am.

Even the Dodgers have to have limits, though.  If Crawford is terrible again next year, I can't imagine they'd go out and drop another $100 mil on another outfielder.  Crawford-Kemp-Ethier is already one of the most expensive outfields ever.

That said, I wouldn't put it past them to spend (waste) $30 mil on a reliever.  That he is Korean doesn't make it any better.  If he is a starter, then maybe he'd be worth it.

Offline TheCerebral1

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1554: November 10, 2012, 08:34:32 AM »
Grienke is a hot mess and while he'd benefit returning to the NL, I personally would rather him on another roster.  As to Upton who wouldn't want him playing in the outfield.  It just really depends if you want to empt the farm to get him.  The roster could be fine with a player like Victorino for a year or so longer until Goodwin is ready.  The guy is raking in the AFL.   I would rather the Nationals continue to groom their own home grown talent in Meyer and Goodwin than trade for Upton, Ellsbury and other players of that ilk.

Online blue911

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1555: November 10, 2012, 08:52:11 AM »
Grienke is a hot mess and while he'd benefit returning to the NL, I personally would rather him on another roster.  As to Upton who wouldn't want him playing in the outfield.  It just really depends if you want to empt the farm to get him.  The roster could be fine with a player like Victorino for a year or so longer until Goodwin is ready.  The guy is raking in the AFL.   I would rather the Nationals continue to groom their own home grown talent in Meyer and Goodwin than trade for Upton, Ellsbury and other players of that ilk.


How so? Because he speaks his mind?


Online wpa2629

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1556: November 10, 2012, 09:17:36 AM »

How so? Because he speaks his mind?



Greinke has an anxiety disorder. Now that may not make him a "hot mess" - but it could be a concern

Online blue911

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1557: November 10, 2012, 09:21:34 AM »
Greinke has an anxiety disorder. Now that may or may not make him a "hot mess" - but it's a concern

I would say that no episodes since he started medications 6 years ago only make it an issue for people who don't understand the problem.

Offline TheCerebral1

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1558: November 10, 2012, 09:29:59 AM »

How so? Because he speaks his mind?



His anxiety issues, his less than stellar August and September.  He falls apart in the playoffs.  I do not consider him a top 10 pitcher.  To make that kind of commitment would be asinine when you have a top three locked in with Strasburg, Gonzalez and Zimmerman.  Detwiler is more than a quality fourth starter.  Where do you really need to lock in Grienke who is hardly an ace in.   Marcum, or even trading for a quality third type starter is more than enough.  Just because Grienke is the best starter on the market doesn't mean he's a need.  The need is center field and shoring up first base.  Whether that's LaRoche, Morse or another option.


Offline TheCerebral1

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1559: November 10, 2012, 09:30:52 AM »
Plus he's going to be resigning with the Angels who are going to pay him through the roof for some stupid reason.

Online wpa2629

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1560: November 10, 2012, 09:31:41 AM »
I would say that no episodes since he started medications 6 years ago only make it an issue for people who don't understand the problem.

Most understandings are simplistic at best. Medication only manage the problem, they are not a cure. There are a myriad of things that could go wrong at any time, including building up an intolerance to the medications, or side effects that could prevent you from continuing the medication, or the sense that you feel so "well" you don't need medication any longer and stop taking it.

I've been through this with a family member for over 30 years - battling depression and anxiety disorders, etc. is like holding a beach ball under water; you have to constantly stay on top of it, otherwise, it pops out from under you and you sink right to the bottom.

It's to Greinke's credit and his doctors, that he's been well for this long and there's nothing to suggest that he's at risk of a relapse, but the underlying cause still exists and could still be a concern.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1561: November 10, 2012, 09:33:25 AM »
I posted a bunch of crap about the Dodgers not signing another outfielder - now they are apparently after Torii Hunter.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/10/the-dodgers-are-aggressively-pursuing-torii-hunter/

Online blue911

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1562: November 10, 2012, 10:17:26 AM »
Most understandings are simplistic at best. Medication only manage the problem, they are not a cure. There are a myriad of things that could go wrong at any time, including building up an intolerance to the medications, or side effects that could prevent you from continuing the medication, or the sense that you feel so "well" you don't need medication any longer and stop taking it.

I've been through this with a family member for over 30 years - battling depression and anxiety disorders, etc. is like holding a beach ball under water; you have to constantly stay on top of it, otherwise, it pops out from under you and you sink right to the bottom.

It's to Greinke's credit and his doctors, that he's been well for this long and there's nothing to suggest that he's at risk of a relapse, but the underlying cause still exists and could still be a concern.

I'm sorry about your family member but I don't think that Greinke or Joey Votto fall into the same category. The pressure to succeed at the MLB level is far greater than what we mere mortals face.


Online wpa2629

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1563: November 10, 2012, 10:28:35 AM »
I'm sorry about your family member but I don't think that Greinke or Joey Votto fall into the same category. The pressure to succeed at the MLB level is far greater than what we mere mortals face.



They may or may not fall into the same category. Nobody knows how they feel but themselves.

It's like any other medical condition, some cases are more severe than others and like any other medical condition, it needs to be monitored.

I don't see it being an obstacle for Grienke, he has performed at a high level for a long time.

- I think Josh Hamilton is at risk right now - he seems to be really vulnerable

Meh - who knows :shrug:

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1564: November 10, 2012, 11:00:58 AM »
Comparing Greinke to Hamilton in terms of personality risks is a massive stretch.

Online wpa2629

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1565: November 10, 2012, 11:07:33 AM »
Comparing Greinke to Hamilton in terms of personality risks is a massive stretch.

I wasn't comparing their personalities or their medical conditions.

I was simply saying that Grienke seems to be managing his condition and Hamilton seems to be struggling with his.

Which of course is all pure conjecture on my part, it's just how it seems from what I've seen/read/heard

Offline cmdterps44

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1566: November 10, 2012, 02:29:11 PM »
Morse, Clippard, Espinosa, and random pitcher for JUpton!!@!@!@

Offline aspenbubba

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1567: November 10, 2012, 03:17:29 PM »
Morse, Clippard, Espinosa, and random pitcher for JUpton!!@!@!@

Since we are gutting the team let's throw in Strasburg

Offline cmdterps44

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1568: November 10, 2012, 03:32:48 PM »
Since we are gutting the team let's throw in Strasburg

Gutting the team is something else.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1569: November 10, 2012, 03:39:25 PM »
Since we are gutting the team let's throw in Strasburg

Rental,  middle reliever,  and k machine is gutting the team?

Offline Vega

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1570: November 10, 2012, 03:42:06 PM »
Morse, Clippard, Espinosa, and random pitcher for JUpton!!@!@!@
Arizona has a strong back end of the bullpen and a good first baseman and left fielder. They might like Espinosa, but not the rest of that package.

Offline cmdterps44

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1571: November 10, 2012, 03:49:09 PM »
Arizona has a strong back end of the bullpen and a good first baseman and left fielder. They might like Espinosa, but not the rest of that package.

Goldie is the only guy that would prevent Morse. Upton would be coming over here freeing up a spot in the OF. Chris Young is also gone so Parra would most likely be playing CF instead of LF.

1. Morse - Parra - Kubel. Not fantastic, but it's what they need. And maybe they'd be willing to play Morse for his bat, ignoring his lack of defense.
2. Clippard would fit right in with them, then.
3. They also need infield help now that Drew is gone and Espinosa can play short or second.
4. If they are serious about getting rid of Bauer, then they could use the pitching depth. Plus, they already need help at the back end of the rotation.

Offline Vega

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1572: November 10, 2012, 03:55:43 PM »
Goldie is the only guy that would prevent Morse. Upton would be coming over here freeing up a spot in the OF. Chris Young is also gone so Parra would most likely be playing CF instead of LF.

1. Morse - Parra - Kubel. Not fantastic, but it's what they need. And maybe they'd be willing to play Morse for his bat, ignoring his lack of defense.
2. Clippard would fit right in with them, then.
3. They also need infield help now that Drew is gone and Espinosa can play short or second.
4. If they are serious about getting rid of Bauer, then they could use the pitching depth. Plus, they already need help at the back end of the rotation.
Adam Eaton will take another outfield spot, and they are very concerned about defense, so they probably wouldn't like having Morse and Kubel in the outfield together even if they sent Eaton back down to AAA. Clip is a good piece, but he doesn't fix a real pressing need for them. They have Bell and Hernandez to set up Putz, so Clip would be a luxury. Espinosa is a decent piece to build a deal around, but we'd have to include prospects rather than major league guys they don't need.


Online Squab

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1573: November 10, 2012, 04:01:53 PM »
I thought they wanted a long term SS, an upgrade at 3B, and a front-line starter? We can't really offer an upgrade this year at third. But it'd probably be something like Espinosa, Rendon, and a SP. They obviously wouldn't get a front-line guy. They would want Meyer.

Offline Mattionals

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1574: November 10, 2012, 04:06:25 PM »
Would the DBacks need a 3B?  Espinosa/Lombo and Rendon plus one mild arm could get that done.  Could have a 2014 roster of Goodwin in CF, Bryce in RF and JUpton in LF.  Werth could move to 1B and the left over of Lombo or Espinosa at 2B.  SS, 3B and C remain unchanged.