Author Topic: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread  (Read 95313 times)

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Offline Kevrock

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1350: November 07, 2012, 09:16:28 AM »
He's quoting a post about a video game and posting a video game trade.

Offline aspenbubba

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1351: November 07, 2012, 09:31:40 AM »
Yes, Goodwin looks great in AFL. But , to assume that he will be up in 2014 and do well is a stretch based on history ( not his).Except for Harper we have not had any home grown talent succeed at the MLB level in the OF. Plugging him in is a disservice to him and is a pipe dream. We need to concentrate on our needs for 2013 and let the rest sort its' way out for future years. That is what you pay a GM  for. They have yearly projection boards in their offices and that is all it is ,just projections. No locks.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1352: November 07, 2012, 10:00:45 AM »
can't tell if your serious, joking (as in the franchise mode sense), or if Hammonds jacked your account.  :shrug:

edit and a nod to Hammonds - He loves Rendon, I don't think he would do that deal

Just joking

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1353: November 07, 2012, 10:03:28 AM »
can't tell if your serious, joking (as in the franchise mode sense), or if Hammonds jacked your account.  :shrug:

edit and a nod to Hammonds - He loves Rendon, I don't think he would do that deal

hahahahaha yeah i don't know about wright at 2nd lol.

Offline Mattionals

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1354: November 07, 2012, 10:31:10 AM »
Yes, Goodwin looks great in AFL. But , to assume that he will be up in 2014 and do well is a stretch based on history ( not his).Except for Harper we have not had any home grown talent succeed at the MLB level in the OF. Plugging him in is a disservice to him and is a pipe dream. We need to concentrate on our needs for 2013 and let the rest sort its' way out for future years. That is what you pay a GM  for. They have yearly projection boards in their offices and that is all it is ,just projections. No locks.

Goodwin had a hell of a season at Single A, started slow in AA and started to put it together.  He needs a good helping of off speed stuff from lefties just like Harper did.  This kid has tremendous talent and was already a somewhat polished hitter coming out of college (and JUCO if you want to be precise).  He gets called up next year unless he just flatlines and I expect him to start in 2014.

He fills a big need on the team as a leadoff guy and he just happens to play good defense in CF.  Harper slides to RF (whoever has this idea that he moves to LF is asinine.  Have you seen the kids arm?) and Werth to LF.

Offline houston-nat

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1355: November 07, 2012, 10:44:12 AM »
He fills a big need on the team as a leadoff guy and he just happens to play good defense in CF.  Harper slides to RF (whoever has this idea that he moves to LF is asinine.  Have you seen the kids arm?) and Werth to LF.

We don't have a need for leadoff; Jayson Werth is very good at that. We do have a long-term CF need, though, and it is always possible that Werth will slow down and have to drop in the order. I agree with you though - the 2014 outfield should be Werth, Goodwin, Harper, which would be defensively extremely good and offensively not so bad either.

Offline WhiteWhale

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1356: November 07, 2012, 10:44:56 AM »
I agree with Matt, you don't make 2013 moves in a vacuum. I am confident that Goodwin will be starting day 1 in 2014 and possibly Rendon if he stays healthy and the cream rises.

With that in mind you have to consider where they will play, and the odd men out are ALR and Morse, so I don't see us pushing ALR that hard, and standing firm with 2 years, not being heart broken if he doesnt come back, and Morse is gone after this year.

A team that shuts down Stras does not make NOW decisions in a vacuum.
A team that loses 100 games on purpose to snatch once in a lifetime talents does not make NOW decisions in a vacuum.

This is team is made up of what it is, because of a dedication to build up from the farm. To think they would disregard their own feelings on their own players (and it's not mind facting to say they love Goodwin and Rendon) is a little short sighted.

-- its possible if ALR does come back or they stick with Morse that Espi is the odd man out.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1357: November 07, 2012, 10:53:46 AM »
I agree with Matt, you don't make 2013 moves in a vacuum. I am confident that Goodwin will be starting day 1 in 2014 and possibly Rendon if he stays healthy and the cream rises.

With that in mind you have to consider where they will play, and the odd men out are ALR and Morse, so I don't see us pushing ALR that hard, and standing firm with 2 years, not being heart broken if he doesnt come back, and Morse is gone after this year.
...

-- its possible if ALR does come back or they stick with Morse that Espi is the odd man out.

with that in mind, Morse is a free agent after next year, so you can cross him off the 2014 log jam list. I could see Espi as the long term odd man out (funny how last year we would have thought it would be desmond) depending on Rendon's position- if he plays MI, espi is the odd man out, otherwise, Zimmerman moves to first and espi survives.


Offline Truconfidence

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1358: November 07, 2012, 11:07:16 AM »
This idea that Werth will hit leadoff next year is silly, IMO. He did that cause it what was good for the team last year. Werth's power should come back with more rehab, and he is a middle of the order hitter, we are paying him like one.

Offline nobleisthyname

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1359: November 07, 2012, 11:09:30 AM »
Ehhh maybe this year. With regular ABs and more experience I'd think Lombardozzi could get on base a little bit more. Probably up to .330 or so. Espinosa could improve too.

.330 is still awful for a leadoff hitter, let alone one on a contending team. The fact that the only other thing he brings to the table is contact makes it an even worse proposition.

Offline cmdterps44

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1360: November 07, 2012, 11:10:08 AM »
A team that loses 100 games on purpose to snatch once in a lifetime talents does not make NOW decisions in a vacuum.

Mindfact.

Offline Mattionals

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1361: November 07, 2012, 11:14:41 AM »
We don't have a need for leadoff; Jayson Werth is very good at that. We do have a long-term CF need, though, and it is always possible that Werth will slow down and have to drop in the order. I agree with you though - the 2014 outfield should be Werth, Goodwin, Harper, which would be defensively extremely good and offensively not so bad either.

I also think Werth should lead off in 2013.  I do think he will end up batting down in the order in 2014 though.  Werth is great at taking pitches and getting on base, but as a hitter, Goodwin's highest value is hitting lead off and Werth is more versatile and can hit lower in the lineup.

Offline Mattionals

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1362: November 07, 2012, 11:25:17 AM »
This idea that Werth will hit leadoff next year is silly, IMO. He did that cause it what was good for the team last year. Werth's power should come back with more rehab, and he is a middle of the order hitter, we are paying him like one.

Werth isn't a prototypical leadoff hitter by any means, but on this roster he is best at providing OBP and taking pitches in the leadoff spot.  I'm not convinced Lombo is really the answer there, and when Goodwin is ready to come up, does he just shift down to the two hole or the 8 hole?

As an aside, many of us are debating that the perceived worst player on the team put up a wRC+ of 94.  I like this stat much more than WAR, since it doesn't try to be an ALL encompassing stat.  Leave the hitting stats to hitting stats and fielding stats to fielding stats.  wRC+ shows that Espinosa was close to league average.  Conversely when everyone wanted Desmond's head in 2011, he came off a wRC+ of 79.  Keep Espinosa.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1363: November 07, 2012, 11:29:51 AM »
Goodwin bats lefty.  I think what is more likely is that Goodwin and Werth are 1 & 2 in the order and Harper moves down to 4th, with Rendon and RZ 3 & 5 in some order, followed by Desi then 2d and C.

Offline Mattionals

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1364: November 07, 2012, 11:44:41 AM »
Goodwin bats lefty.  I think what is more likely is that Goodwin and Werth are 1 & 2 in the order and Harper moves down to 4th, with Rendon and RZ 3 & 5 in some order, followed by Desi then 2d and C.

1. Goodwin - L
2. Werth - R
3. Zimmerman - R
4. Harper - L
5. Rendon - R
6. Desmond - R
7. Espinosa - S
8. Ramos - R
9. Pitcher

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1365: November 07, 2012, 12:02:42 PM »
Goodwin bats lefty.  I think what is more likely is that Goodwin and Werth are 1 & 2 in the order and Harper moves down to 4th, with Rendon and RZ 3 & 5 in some order, followed by Desi then 2d and C.

and that's why i think they are okay with letting laroche walk (goodwin/harper/lombo or espy). 

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1366: November 07, 2012, 12:02:59 PM »
JCA, i really think the Red Sox go after LaRoche hard.  He's a good fit there.

Offline BrandonK

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1367: November 07, 2012, 12:06:39 PM »
Zimmerman will most likely become an elite 1st baseman when Rendon pushes him off third.  Probably best for Zimm's health too.  Remember that Zimm started out at UVA as a 3B/SS.  He will probably end up being a Gold Glove 1B.

ala Michael Young, with a better glove

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1368: November 07, 2012, 12:31:10 PM »
JCA, i really think the Red Sox go after LaRoche hard.  He's a good fit there.

He wasn't a good fit the last time he played on the Red Sox.

Offline WhiteWhale

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1369: November 07, 2012, 12:42:27 PM »
seems like a few of us have come to terms with that 2014 lineup, which puts us looking for a corner rental, preferably a lefty.  Two years is still possible as they could be moved to the bench, or give us some flexibility with Rendon at the beginning of 2014.

Who are the targets with that mindset? I don't think they have to be cheap, just not in line for long term deals, and obviously ALR if no one backs the truck up would fit

- I openly ask as most of you seem to have a better grasp on the rest of the league

Offline Mattionals

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1370: November 07, 2012, 12:45:33 PM »
He wasn't a good fit the last time he played on the Red Sox.

They moved him as payroll cut.

Offline houston-nat

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1371: November 07, 2012, 12:56:34 PM »
ala Michael Young, with a better glove

and a far better bat.

Offline WhiteWhale

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1372: November 07, 2012, 12:57:00 PM »
Melky Cabrera
Raul Ibanez
Shane Victorino
Angel Pagan


Let me know if I'm offbase here.
all these guys are either lefty or switch and would likey play a corner outfield spot for us ( I think Harper is better in CF than Pagan or Victorino) and it does not seem like they will get offers more than two years, Pagan maybe, but the Giants not giving him a QO is somewhat telling.

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1373: November 07, 2012, 01:03:19 PM »
He wasn't a good fit the last time he played on the Red Sox.

hahahahaha that is true.  for what 9 days?

Offline Mattionals

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #1374: November 07, 2012, 01:25:59 PM »
Melky Cabrera
Raul Ibanez
Shane Victorino
Angel Pagan


Let me know if I'm offbase here.
all these guys are either lefty or switch and would likey play a corner outfield spot for us ( I think Harper is better in CF than Pagan or Victorino) and it does not seem like they will get offers more than two years, Pagan maybe, but the Giants not giving him a QO is somewhat telling.

I think Melky when clean isn't a game changer.  I have a hunch that he reverts back to his Yankee and Braves ways.  If not, then I'm all for him on a one year contract to bridge the gap.

Pagan will get paid more money and years to stay in SF.  On a one year deal here as a LF he looks very attractive.

Victorino would only come here if his market falls out from underneath him and he is left to a one year deal, most likely with a club option for a second.

Ibanez is no better than Moore or Morse in LF, but presents a lefty bat.