Author Topic: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread  (Read 70655 times)

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Online Slateman

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #250: October 16, 2012, 01:15:25 PM »
The new network deals ensure that Tampa will have the money to sign Price.


http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/10/al-east-notes-rays-showalter-rodriguez-granderson.html

The Rays started the season with a 64 million dollar payroll. The owners want to go less than that.

Online blue911

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #251: October 16, 2012, 01:20:32 PM »
When does Desmond go into arbitration? This off-season?

Yes

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #252: October 16, 2012, 01:23:16 PM »
When does Desmond go into arbitration? This off-season?

Yep, first of three years

Online wpa2629

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #253: October 16, 2012, 01:24:00 PM »
Yes

Then I definitely see them getting an extension done - they're so high on Desmond and locking guys up seems to be their MO - JZim is in arbitration this off-season as well, is he not?

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #254: October 16, 2012, 01:24:01 PM »
I could see a package of Morse and Espinosa as the start of something attractive to the Rays.  I still think it might take more to pry Shields, but with the obligation to Morse being only one more year, he could easily slide into 1st or DH.  Espinosa at MLB  minimum  is a cheaper option than bringing back Ryan Roberts at $2.5MM, and they could move Zobrist back to 2d.  If they do not keep Upton, then Zobrist can move to the OF with Joyce and Jennings.  The total commitment to Morse and Espinosa would be less than Shields's contract, and the money from Shields could be redirected to signing Price.  They would still want an arm, I think, from the minors, or perhaps Stammen.

Online NationalHeat

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #255: October 16, 2012, 01:24:19 PM »
I don't know how Lombo is a better 2B option than Espinosa, and I don't know how that idea got started. Between power and defense, it is just simply not based on fact (based on what has happened so far.) And I don't think saying Lombo has a higher ceiling than Espi holds any water either.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #256: October 16, 2012, 01:26:46 PM »
No, he's worse than Espinosa. It's just with Lombo, Rendon, and Kobernus, and Espinosa's ability to play SS, Espinosa may be a valuable trade chit - more than his deriders think.  Lombo is a down grade, but probably a 2 WAR guy instead of a 3.5 - 4 WAR guy.  You count on Rendon to develop, and in a pinch, have Kobernus.

Online NationalHeat

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #257: October 16, 2012, 01:32:03 PM »
No, he's worse than Espinosa. It's just with Lombo, Rendon, and Kobernus, and Espinosa's ability to play SS, Espinosa may be a valuable trade chit - more than his deriders think.  Lombo is a down grade, but probably a 2 WAR guy instead of a 3.5 - 4 WAR guy.  You count on Rendon to develop, and in a pinch, have Kobernus.

You used WAR  in a discussion   :clap:

How well has Jeff Kobernus played? Never followed him - since he was the next pick after Stras, I made the incorrect assumption that he was a filler type to save money.

I don't know what we can trade Espinosa for that will be of equal value AND would improve us in 2013 (by offsetting the downgrade to Lombo.) TB is the only fit, but I don't like Shields. High salaried guy now, who has only had one year of high end rotation production.

I don't see how we can afford both Stras AND Price long term. I guess you can make the trade and let Price walk eventually. It'll take the enitre farm though.

I will admit, I am  :az: over Espinosa.

Offline cmdterps44

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #258: October 16, 2012, 01:40:00 PM »
Jeff Kobernus is like a Brian Roberts, without the continuous injuries (so far. He has been injured but you get what I'm saying) . He's a gap hitter (averaged around 20 doubles in 100 something games) who can steal a lot of bases (stole 42 ('12) and 53 ('11)). He seems like he could be a great second baseman but will probably only become a utility player with us.

Espinosa's potential will interest a lot of suitors. A power bat who can steal and play great defense will put everyone on notice. I still think he'll turn it around this coming year but if we can pry something nice from a team that's interested in him, I say trade away.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #259: October 16, 2012, 01:40:34 PM »
Actually, Storen was the signability pick at #10 because we did not sign Aaron Crow the year before.

Kobernus has great SB numbers, but otherwise is no power and low OBP.  Only got 366 PAs this year, so he might have been hurt. 

In the Farm section of the Board, we have "follow the prospects."  If you go to the sticky thread at the top, then you'll see links to the individual prospect threads.  I don't know the last time Kobernus was updated, but it might have more info.

Online NationalHeat

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #260: October 16, 2012, 01:42:53 PM »
Cool, will do.

I just don't trade a uqality, young, cost controlled 2B unless I'm legitimately improving my team.

Online NationalHeat

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #261: October 16, 2012, 01:44:38 PM »
Kobernus had a .658 OPS at Harrisburg this year. That followed up a .700 OPS 2011 campaign. He seems like just some dude to me right now.

Offline cmdterps44

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #262: October 16, 2012, 01:44:55 PM »
I wonder what it would take to get Justin Upton... just spitballing.

Online Slateman

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #263: October 16, 2012, 01:46:02 PM »
Actually, Storen was the signability pick at #10 because we did not sign Aaron Crow the year before.


Yes ... the guy we took instead of Trout ...

Online NationalHeat

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #264: October 16, 2012, 01:46:53 PM »

Yes ... the guy we took instead of Trout ...

How much did Trout get?

Online Slateman

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #265: October 16, 2012, 01:47:52 PM »
I wonder what it would take to get Justin Upton... just spitballing.

Rendon for sure. They need left side IF help. Not sure if they want to trade him for players to play now, or prospects in a year or two when their pitching has become more experienced.

Online Slateman

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #266: October 16, 2012, 01:48:56 PM »
How much did Trout get?

He's currently making 480k

Online wpa2629

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #267: October 16, 2012, 01:49:52 PM »

Yes ... the guy we took instead of Trout ...


Didn't 23 other teams pass on Trout?

Online NationalHeat

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #268: October 16, 2012, 01:50:27 PM »
Come on, Trout wasn't even in the conversation as a top 10 pick in 2009 from what I'm reading. I don't think many had him as a sure thing as an 18 yr old OF from NJ. Come on, that's not a fair argument :rofl:

Rizzo drafted two guys in the 1st round that year, both are in the majors. That's impressive.

Online Slateman

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #269: October 16, 2012, 01:50:46 PM »
Didn't 23 other teams pass on Trout?

Yea. Still doesn't make me feel any better. Trout and Harper in the same outfield ... wow ...

Online NationalHeat

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #270: October 16, 2012, 01:51:00 PM »
He's currently making 480k

As a signing bonus. Meaning did he slip due to signability. I don't think he did. Angels just made a hell of a pick.

Offline cmdterps44

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #271: October 16, 2012, 01:51:50 PM »
Rendon for sure. They need left side IF help. Not sure if they want to trade him for players to play now, or prospects in a year or two when their pitching has become more experienced.

I'd definitely be willing to let Rendon, Hood, Morse, and a pitcher or something like that.

Online Slateman

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #272: October 16, 2012, 01:53:09 PM »
I'd definitely be willing to let Rendon, Hood, Morse, and a pitcher or something like that.

They have no use for Morse. They're set at first base and the outfield.

Offline cmdterps44

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #273: October 16, 2012, 01:53:33 PM »
They have no use for Morse. They're set at first base and the outfield.

Hood? Well then they can have Espinosa or Kobernus or something.

Online wpa2629

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #274: October 16, 2012, 01:55:28 PM »
Yea. Still doesn't make me feel any better. Trout and Harper in the same outfield ... wow ...

LOL

Well ok that's different - but let's not "blame" the Nats for not taking him then ...